railandsail

I've heard a number of stories about the lack of pulling power among any number of articulaed steam engines. Perhaps they have just toooo many wheels distributing that weight of theirs....ha...ha.

But kidding aside its often tough to add additional weight to these locos. I wonder if more weight could be added to these locos utilizing shotgun loading 'shot' into their small, widely distributed cavities. ">http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Shot-Information-Data-Tables/products/595/">

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Shot-Information-Data-Tables/products/595/

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0
Virginian and Lake Erie

It is often possible to add

It is often possible to add weight to a locomotive using lead shot or strips. Lead being metal will conduct electricity so one needs to be careful where it is placed and how it is secured. An easy way to see if it will help can be tried from outside the locomotive. A piece of lead sheet can be bent and positioned over the outside of the locomotive to see if additional weight will benefit.

I found ways to add between 5 and 5.5 oz of weight to a pair of Texas type locomotives and it made a big difference.

Reply 0
Deemiorgos

Indeed, weight makes a

Indeed, weight makes a difference, but for me it involves applying weight to the tender and the bogies/dollies. I did in on the dollies because my locos used to visit another layout that had somewhat poor track laying causing the dollies to pop off the rails at times. For tenders, I find it helps with keeping the wheels/trucks on the rails better for pickup, as some tenders trucks ar too stiffly sprung.

Reply 0
Douglas Meyer

I have a couple of

I have a couple of C&O 2-6-6-6 Locos from Walthers that are in desperate need of weight but I keep putting it off as just opening up a modern plastic loco is a pita.  But these things have trouble pulling 20 cars up a 1.25 grade...

-Doug

Reply 0
gary60s

It is possible to mix

It is possible to mix powdered tungsten with diluted white glue and then trowel it into cavities, or paint it on, depending on consistency mixed.

As mentioned above, trial weights should be tried first. Too much weight added can harm motors.

Reply 0
railandsail

GREAT kitbashing and weight addition

I found this referenced site on another forum,....WOW.

Check out some of Dr Wayne's custom work...
http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=9149#p164841

Reply 0
Virginian and Lake Erie

Doug, I have some good info

Doug, I have some good info on how I set up a pair of them. I am looking to add weight to mine so as to eliminate the issues with traction. Initially I used some bullfrog snot to increase traction and the results were rather good.

Quote:

Locomotive prep

I was at home helping my wife who had sprained her ankle on Friday and Saturday morning and missed Saturday's meeting but got to the club for the last regularly scheduled hour of the Saturday morning session. Now the guys were taking out some of the junk from the demolition efforts and had removed quite a bit. There is still more to go and Bob A. was working on some plumbing but was unsuccessful so it will be continued later. I only did a small amount of construction work and volunteered to get a pair of channel locks and free the improperly soldered joint before the joint cooled and was asked if I was referring to the real tools or those gripers on the end of my wrists. The rest of the guys thought that was quite funny.

With no construction work going on I thought it would be nice to go over a couple of locomotives that I have been wanting to run on the layout. Some of this was due to some comments by other posters wanting to see one of my coal trains with a steam locomotive on the front and a pusher on the rear. So I thought I would do some testing and get a couple of DCC ready locomotives decoder equipped and prepared to run. A lot of things say ready to run right on the box, I don't believe it.

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Now in the photo above you will see one AG class 2-6-6-6 masquerading as a C&O Allegheny type in a box. From left to right there is some Kapton Tape, a Digitrax 2 function decoder rated for I believe 1.5 amps continuous and 2 amp peak. Four of my contact cleaners and lubes although only 2 were used in this case, Neverstall, Labelle oil, Labelle grease with pft, and Atlas Conductalube contact cleaner and lube. Just the last two were used on this locomotive. There is also my coupler box, tweezers, Trip pin pliers, coupler spring tool , dental pick, scissors, assorted screw divers, some labels but I went another way, and a pair of cradles for holding the locomotive.

Not pictured nearby is a computer with decoder pro on it and some tracks connected to it. In addition a small numbered drill bit was used to clean out the holes for some piping on the scale length cab. And a Dymo label maker was used with some yellow post it notes for my redneck renumbering operation. The locomotive numbers will need to be displayed on the cab so operators can determine what address to enter, and at this time I will need something of a temporary nature  as decals will be used to rename and number the locomotives in the future.

Keep in mind these locomotives have only had the boxes opened to see if they were inside and in one case run on dc for a distance of about 8 feet to see if the loco worked and that was many years ago.

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In the photo above you will see I am starting on the tender and swapping out the proto coupler for a Kadee whisker coupler, I have already given the coupler a slight bend with the pliers and it turns out it was just fine. I used the screw and coupler box lid that came with the locomotive and after installing had a nice strong coupler that functioned freely and was at a good height and did not sag or have lots of vertical play.

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In this picture you can see the coupler awaiting the installation of the cover and screw, the scale length cab, the apron that fits between the cab and the tender, the left hand seat for the cab and the discarded centering spring and plastic coupler. Also you can observe the bottom of the tender and the trucks and we will go there next. I wish to state at this point I only remove and adjust one part at a time where the trucks are concerned and with the drivers so as should anything odd happen the polarity does not get compromised.

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In this photo you can see the wipers that pick up current from the wheels, and that they are making good but light contact with the respective axles. There is only a mild amount of tarnish on the wiper and I have already wiped the excess lubricant out of the area with a tissue. The next step was to lightly relube the contact points with conductalube and put a tiny amount in the area that the axles go through plastic on the trucks. Key to this is tiny amount, using the needle applicator the desired amount is the least you can get to transfer from the needle  to the axle, if you find you have applied too much the corner of a tissue or paper towel will pick it up. After you have lubed the truck contact points and wipers you can reinstall the lower portion of the truck and replace the screws and move to the next truck.

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Now to apply an overly used phrase from years gone by, "What is wrong with this picture?" This is how this locomotive was when disassembled as you can see the wiper on the leading axle of the tender was not installed properly at the factory but is easily fixed when doing the inspection, cleaning and lubricating operation. To correct this the front wheel set just needs to be picked up and then replaced with the wiper in the correct orientation as can be seen in the case of the rear axle. The same procedure was used as on the rear truck and then the cover was reinstalled.

Now we will move to the locomotive itself and continue with our cleaning and lubricating, install a decoder, this one is one that is so easy Bruce P. won't have to tell us how. There will be some photos that will be shared among more than one operation. First we will begin by removing the boiler shell, then the cab, then install the decoder, then we will route the three wires under the seats in the locomotive that go to the tender, replace the seats, the new full length cab will be replaced then with the boiler shell off we will begin going through the drivers and lubing the contacts and last we will use a tiny amount of conductalube on the shafts at the ends of the motor before we install the boiler cover. There was one little issue with this operation and the hole for some piping was not large enough to accept the piping and needed to be cleaned out with a small drill.

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Here we have the locomotive with the shell removed and the cab removed. Starting from the front of the locomotive and going to the rear we have the screw that holds the shell to the weight, the cover which represents the feed water heater, the apron that goes between the locomotive and tender, and one of the locomotive seats, the apron pins go under the seats in a little slot. Looking at the bell on the shell the open end points to the box that accepts the cover (feed water heater) and contains the screw that secures the boiler cover to the threaded boss that can be seen at the very front of the boiler weight. Inside the cut out portion of the boiler weight we have the front engine and the drive shafts connecting it to the motor and flywheel followed by the drive shaft connecting to the rear engine. Behind that is the circuit board that contains a jumper in the eight pin socket that will be removed when we plug in a new decoder and then the back head and the lights that simulate a fire in the fire box.

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On the left is a photo of the model cab interior and on the right a shot of the prototype cab for comparison. The photo on the right I took while I was at the B&O museum in Baltimore MD. The photo on the left also shows the decoder that has replaced the jumper plug and it really was easy to do. If you can plug in a lamp you likely have the skill to install this decoder in this engine. The wires also have a bit of memory so once the decoder is fitted into the cavity in the boiler weight it tends to stay put rather well. The large screw that can be seen under the cab is the one that holds the cab in position on the locomotive.

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Now here we have a couple of photos of the top and bottom of the rear section of the locomotive. The photo on the left shows the seats installed as well as the apron and the wires run under the seat so they can later connect to the tender as unobtrusively as possible. The large looking screw in front of the seats will secure the cab. The photo on the right shows the very tiny amount of grease applied to the large black gear and the drivers axles that will be given a touch of conductalube where they make contact with the frame. To the right of the photo can be seen the draw bar screw and spring as well as the hole underneath the spring that contains the screw that holds the cab to the chassis. It is easy to remove and replace the draw bar screw and spring to facilitate adjusting the cab screw with out damaging the spring. The tender truck is just above the foam cradle and will be reattached when the cover plate is replaced on the rear engine. This particular locomotive has been one of the easiest to clean and inspect I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with.

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In the two photos above you can see the rear truck and the points that will be recipients of conductalube as well as the front engine and the coupler pocket that easily accepts a kadee whisker coupler. The front engine is lubricated the same as was the rear and the front truck had the wipers touched with conductalube as well.

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All back together and nearly ready for a visit to decoder pro to be followed by some testing on the layout with about 100 coal cars.  Before that can take place a hole in the cab that accepts some piping needs to be enlarged a bit so the pipe will fit in the opening. You can see the pipe next to the cab in the photo above that is at an unnatural angle and bent. Once the hole was enlarged a wee bit it fit inside just fine and easily straightened to the proper shape. Oh and did I mention there are two of these renumbered 900 and 903 that will be run with one on each end of a coal train of around 100 loaded cars going up a curving 2.5% uncompensated grade? This will be filmed on Tuesday night. In order to get the locomotives to pull as I felt they should I tested them with about 6.9 oz of lead on the outside of the boiler and found it did not seem to be benefiting to the amount desired. I may still add a bit of weight. Next a test was made with Bullfrog snot and it was found to be very helpful in eliminating slipping and dramatically increased pulling power. The Bullfrog treatment was applied to the wheels with the large gear on the axle on both the front and rear engine all others were left untreated. A single locomotive will take 90 cars up the grade with out any major slipping but will lose traction with 94.

The second locomotive is drying now. Initial tests today confirmed the feasibility of running a long heavy train with a steam engine on the point and another on the rear. Worked so well that it now has a video test scheduled for Tuesday and I should get the video ready to add to my YouTube channel and our club website as well as putting it on here for everyone to see if they desire to. Hope you guys enjoy the latest entry be back with more soon.

Doug, I hope this is helpful. In addition to this info it is followed by several more videos and comments on my blog, the club blog, starting on page 12. The entry is followed by several pictures and videos of a pair of them sharing a train of coal hoppers, 105 I believe was the number.

Reply 0
railandsail

Bullfrog Snot

Quote:

Doug, I have some good info on how I set up a pair of them. I am looking to add weight to mine so as to eliminate the issues with traction. Initially I used some bullfrog snot to increase traction and the results were rather good.
Rob

So this stuff works rather well?....and it does not cause any lumpness in the running qualities??

I've never used it, but then I haven't been running trains for quite some (long) time,....probably before this 'snot' came on the market....ha...ha

Reply 0
Virginian and Lake Erie

Brian, I found that it tended

Brian, I found that it tended to act as a track cleaner and picked up material from the rails. Thus I later decided to add weight to the models and have yet to get back to that project. I suspect if one can get it on the drivers in a thin enough layer it might be worth while.

The models also have a set of drivers with traction tires so that may be the alternative.

Reply 0
railandsail

Traction Tires

I had some traction tires on an early Rivarossi Big Boy (I think it was), and that engine really did have a LOT of pulling power. But you had to be careful at start up or you would 'unravel' those rubber traction tires very easily.

And I believe I remember destroying traction tires rather quickly as a result of using a citrus based cleaner on the track.

Reply 0
Virginian and Lake Erie

Brian you might be able to

Brian you might be able to find replacement traction tires from the after market for some of these.

Reply 0
Douglas Meyer

A very useful article, thanks

A very useful article, thanks for posting it.

One of my engines had traction tiers, but they died.  After a number of years (pretty much sitting in the box) the tires lost their elasticity and failed.  If you are careful you can use multiple layers of bullfrog snot to fill in the grove and make a new tire.

the question is,  how much room is inside for adding weight?

-Doug

Reply 0
railandsail

Sold those Engines

Hi Rob, I sold those Rivarossi locos when Broadway Ltd came out with their BlueLine specials.
I've not run them, so I forget if they had any traction tires?

Reply 0
railandsail

Traction Tires via Bullfrog

Quote:

If you are careful you can use multiple layers of bullfrog snot to fill in the grove and make a new tire.
Doug

That might be an interesting experiment.

Reply 0
railandsail

Blueline Big Boy traction tires

Turns out those BLI big boys did have traction tires,...I just saw this posted on another forum...

Quote:

I have one articulated locomotive; a BLI Blueline Big Boy. It's a good puller because the drivers on one axle has traction tires on it. I was having issues with it running intermittently. I traced that down to a connector inside the tender being loose. Seated it fully and it runs great again.
...'engines for weighted cars'

Reply 0
Nickeldiggers2

EXTRA WEIGHT ON DRIVERS

Hallo railandsail.

The problem of ballasting locos is the little available space (especially in smaller units) to install the extra weight. One good material (although a bit expensive) is tungsten putty. At a density of 19.50 grams/cm3 is much heavier that lead (11.35 grams/cm3), and can be squeezed (literally) into almost unaccessible places. Here in Europe tungsten putty is available in fishing gear shops at 5 - 6 Euro/25 grams.

Second (and cheaper) possibility, is good old lead "shot". Take the smallest available pellets, mix with slow-curing epoxy, cast it into the available places inside the body of the locos. Cast into one side at a time, wait for curing, change side, an so on.

One big advantage of tungsten putty is that it is removable.

End line: the weight on drivers is never enough.

All the best from Milan

Mad Doc & Nickel Queen

Reply 0
Russ Bellinis

A couple of things to keep in mind when adding weight.

#1 weight should be balanced on steam engines.  You want the balance point to be over the center drivers in each set.

#2 For those who are not familiar with shooting or shot guns.  The shot will be in a sealed bag when you buy it.  The higher the number the smaller the shot. It is similar to wire sizes.  22ga wire is much smaller than 10 ga. wire.

Reply 0
railandsail

Someone mentioned that

Someone mentioned that tungsten material earlier in this thread, but I sort of skimmed over it
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/adding-weight-to-articulated-locos-12208133

Thanks for bringing it up again.

Reply 0
Mark Pruitt Pruitt

I use bullfrog snot and it

I use bullfrog snot and it works great if applied properly (not hard to do, by the way). 

Reply 0
railandsail

Precaution, when adding weight to brass or plastic locomotives

I found this interesting precaution about adding weight to locos, but rather than just adding it to this singular subject thread I thought it might be of even broader interest desiring of its own subject thread,..

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/adding-weight-to-brass-or-plastic-locomotives-12214850

 

 

Reply 0
Ted Becker rail.bird

Consider the motor

Heat is the killer.  More weight will mean higher motor current which will mean the motor gets warmer.  The added tractive effort will mean more cars are pulled which will raise the current and temperature even more.  One of two things is likely to melt first, the plastic locomotive shell or an internal motor part.  If it is a brass locomotive the motor will go first.

An infrared thermometer could be a big help.  Mine is a little smaller than my garage door remote.  May not be as accurate but this application is good enough and a lot more convenient than one of the big guns.


Ted Becker

Granite Falls, WA

Reply 0
Russ Bellinis

One precaution that was not mentioned in this thread is the

"driver slip test."  As long as the drivers will slip when the locomotive is blocked, the motor will be fine.  If you add so much weight that the drivers will not slip, then you risk burning out the motor.

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