Congratsyou have made a command decision and moved forward. Cona

At least you have made a command decision and have put your foot forward. Keep us posted of the progress.

Congrats!

I have a ton of hobbies. Though I've spent $1,000s already on model railroading at just over a year into the hobby, it's actually been my least-expensive hobby so far. But MRR is a great hobby because it has so many dimensions. There are so many different crafts involved, that you have years of learning and enjoyment still to come. As far as scale-choice goes, I chose N-scale on a 12' x 13' layout so I that could build ultra-long consists and model many different city sections, industries and terrain variations. Of course, larger scales lend themselves better to weathering and higher detailing.

Model railroading is a great hobby

4x8 may not be the best choice

4 x 8

No offense but save the circle of track for under the Christmas tree. By doing a shelf style layout you can double the mainline from the 15' (Turtle Creek) to 32' or eight of way. 

I agree with Joe that the 4x8 is a popular plywood size for flooring or siding on a home but a poor choice for a layout for a number of reasons. Beside the repetition of going around and around - not that you have to - a lineal railroad better represents a slice of the real thing. Check out Lance Mindhiem's website and blog for some inspiration. I particularly like this entry  http://shelflayouts.com/2017/07/how-many-towns-should-i-put-on-my-layout/

Yes, you can learn a lot from building a chainsaw layout BUT look at the current state of the hobby. Less really is more. The One Module Approach of MRH is also a new book by the publishers of MR called (guess) Think Big, Build Small. Building small means different things to different people. Knowledge is gained through education but wisdom is gained through failure .. er experience. The wisdom of these pages are a guide for your use not to make the same mistakes. 

4x8...

I can't tell you how many times I had to bite my tongue at the local shop when new folks would come in, asking about building a 4x8 layout... (for some reason, new people think I work there... probably doesn't help that I know where everything is, and can usually give decent advice on certain items) I don't want to discourage any modelers, so I usually say "Oh yeah! 4x8 is cool... personally, I'm doing a shelf layout to give me more track in less room" and the conversation goes from there. It helps that I can assure the newer folks, who have a bunch of EZ track, that I'm using EZ track as well. (because, honestly... ANY track can be used to build TOMA, or a shelf, or an all consuming railway empire... doesn't matter if you are hand laying, using old snap track, flex track, or EZ track... hell, steel track works, if you don't mind the maintenance... I just would never recommend it is all)

Oh, and 4x8 may even be a goal some day for a part of my layout, depending on how much room I may have some day. That's the brilliance of TOMA... there are endless possibilities to what size module you build.

The point is... GET STARTED! RUN YOUR TRAINS! Before I started building my layout, i would toss EZ track on the bed, or on the floor, and watch them chase their tails! Nothing better for the imagination, and visualizing your dream than tossing some track down, and running some trains!

Wives

If your wife has a creative streak see if you can get her involved too. Definitely adds to the enjoyment.

Jack

A different 4' x 8' HO layout

The Heart of Georgia (HOG) layout is made from a single 4' x 8' sheet of plywood for the layout top designed by Scott Perry.  It can easily be modified to be a shelf around-the-walls layout.  You can see the blog on the layout at this link:  http://hogrr.blogspot.com/

My 10' x 12' layout is a modification of the HOG layout and allows me a 6' x 8' open space in my room.

I'll bet...

if you're set on a 4 by 8 after all the above, good advice, a good circular saw or letting the guys at Home Depot or Lowes or where ever cut it into halves the long way or quarters.  You could hedge your position and make two or four TOMA modules and reassemble them into the 4x8 and still be versatile for the future.  Read selling a layout by Ray Schofield, it might be easier to dismantle or even sell a section as your needs change.

If I had it to do over again my semi monstrosity would be in small sections.  Well Rick beat me to it!  Thanks Rick your plan looks great!

Also if your significant other is really creative, you can get the layout out of the house easily and buy that 40' X 100' warehouse you'll be wishing for shortly.... ;> )

Sincerely,

Nick

Go ahead with the 4x8...

The very first issue of MRH introduced the concept of the "chainsaw" layout. That's the layout where you make your big mistakes. Why am I encouraging you to make mistakes? That is how you learn. ( Pertinent link). Joe didn't actually invent the idea, he just told the truth. Most layouts are destined for the salvage bin, especially first efforts.

A 4x8 has some drawbacks, but it has some good points too:

• Plans are out there: many many plans.
• Bench work is dead simple: this makes it quick to get going, and avoids some complexities the other systems present (like attachment to walls).
• You don't need to crawl under to wire, you can just lean it against a wall to access the underside.
• When you know nothing is permanent, you can work with abandon. This includes risky experiments.
• When it is time to tear it down (probably after a year or two) you will be able to salvage more than you think (hint: skip ballasting track-- that's easy to learn, and will leave the track reusable for v 2)

It's just a big TOMA, really.

pqe

TOMA does not rule the world!

You picked a great hobby to get into and a great site to seek advice, share, and learn.   

While MRH seems to have become narrow minded and preach nothing but TOMA here lately, I personally encourage you to start out with a 4x8 or small shelf layout "to completion".  (From the previous posts you see there are various options so don't think you will be stuck with a basic "oval" type layout.)

This will allow you to get your train running in a short amount of time and allow you to gain modeling experience without breaking the bank.  

Remember also hobbies including Model Railroading are supposed to be fun.  So, don't worry about making mistakes and if things don't turn out perfectly at first.   "You have to walk before your run"

Keep us posted on the progress. 

Joe

TOMA meets the 4x8

You can also combine the TOMA concept with the 4x8 concept using two 4x6 TOMA modules back-to-back. Kind of TOMA-meets-the-4x8 ...

You end up with two re-usable shelf modules this way that you can later place along the wall and extend with staging, add more distance between towns, etc. It does take two extra feet of length, but you do get a lot more useful modeling distance for your towns. If this extra 2 feet of length really bothers you, then make the two modules 2x4 instead of 2x6 and voila - TOMA 4x8 with all kinds of flexibilty for expansion later ...

Certainly TOMA does not rule the world, but it has so much great flexibility that if you don't have a really good reason to rule it out, you should at least try it once.

Ummm...

I do hope we're not scaring this guy away!

BOY do we ever get excited around here! (and people say we don't cater to the new guys... sheesh! Just look at us all here! Bunch of big ol softies!)

Go ahead with the 4 by 8

  I agree with PQE, if one has the space for it a 4 by 8 with snap track is the fastest way to get started and has plenty of surface area to try out things.  A newbie has so many things to learn so more complicated methods should be postpone till he finds out if he even likes model railroading as a hobby. When the time comes to ditch the 4 by 8 the modeler will know. If there is enough room an old ping pong table is an even better starting place, they are larger than a 4 by 8 so wider curves or double tracked oval can be used and more scenery can be experimented with. John Allen started with a small oval and look where it took him :> ) .......DaveB

My first layout was a 4' x 9' with an Atlas track plan

I was told to get trains running as soon as possible to learn and keep my interest high.  It worked!

A little while later and MUCH learning experience I had trains running.

Well, I decided to expand a little and recycled my town area and part of my track.  The wire fencing in the background is the future Misti Mountain which will be 7-1/2 feet high, by 16 feet wide my 6 feet deep.

Mountain done, trains running!

Trains running...

For me, that was the most important part.

Getting them running.

This is why I loved my EZ track, and decided to build my layout using that instead of roadbed.

Before I thought I could even make a decent layout, I would toss EZ track on the bed, or the floor, or a piece of flooring I would toss on my bed... apartment living means no real space.. or so I thought.

But, because I could run trains, even if it was just a piece of wood, some EZ track, and a plastic building or two, helpoed me to visualize, and inspired me to do something. Then all the talk of TOMA, and "point to point"... that it doesn't have to be a circle, and doesn't HAVE to take up the whole room... it motivated me to start on a layout.

All I need do with my layout now, is some scenery... and without that initial "toss some track down, and get trains running" I would never have gotten there.

The beauty of things like EZ track, or other "roadbed" track, or even snap track for that matter, is you get to play around with it, and change what things look like, and experiment.

Sure, I use SCARM for track planning, but SCARM isn't what I used to create my track plan I am currently useing for my layout. I mean, partially it was, but the laying of track and seeing it in real life... and running some trains on it... that was what it took! (plus, looking at my actual track, and the SCARM version, which is the same exact track plan... the proportions look a lot different one from the other)

The fastest way to get trains

The fastest way to get trains running is to join a club that has a layout already built and operating. Then it takes away the urge to take short cuts so you can run trains, as you already have a place to run trains.

Whatever you do Have Fun!

Don't get too deep into it before you know what to do. An oval and a couple of sidings is probably adequate and learn from your mistakes because yo will make them. Don't get big ideas, I have seen too many abandoned RRs because someone bit off more than he could chew.

I would try and pick one RR and Era and stick to it at least to start with, later you may change your idea on RR, Era and even Scale and Gauge. It doesn't matter too much if the layout is small and has only a minimal amount of rolling stock, Etc. Don't invest in expensive models to start with, get some reasonable middle of the road value models and ones that aren't superdetailed. Athearn Blue box locos and cars are a good start along. Remember as a newbie you may not even notice all the juicy details that us "old Hands" notice and you need to learn your Model Railroad dexterity a bit first.

Try and find a club or other modelers and don't be afraid to admit you don't know something and ask questions. Most modelers will talk your ear off if you ask a question. Remember the only dumb question is unasked one.

Buy some good tools if you don't have them already, by this I mean modeling tools such as small pliers, Jewellers screwdrivers, rail nippers, etc. If you don't have the skills to build the benchwork there are several companies that supply kits of modules in a variety of sizes and shapes.

What area are you in? I am sure there is someone on here that is nearby or at least knows another modeler in your area.

This forum is a great place to start asking questions. There are people on here that range from newbies like you upto people who can't remember when they started modeling back in the dark ages!

Remember - Have Fun.

Cmon guys !

Quit being so discouraging. I know I started with a 4 X 8, and I will bet the majority of YOU started with a 4 X 8 or similar size. It gets your feet wet, lets you run your trains and see what it feels like, and then you throw in a couple of turnouts, maybe a passing siding, and figure out a little switching. Once that phase is done, then you can move on to something more elaborate...but at least you get a taste of what model railroading is about.

Your woodworking skills will serve you well in building your layout. With the layouts you have looked at, you will have some grades and will learn to deal with that. Your choice of the 50's is understandable, with the mix of steam and diesel, so that will give you a taste of each, and you can find out which ( or both ) is more to your liking. You have thought out your challenges well..town, streets, water, grades, hills, tunnels....all things we all imagine on our railroads. So charge right in, get your feet wet....enjoy the victories and defeats in all the aspects of model railroading. Your skill level grows as you learn what does, and does not, work...but never be afraid of trying something new and different from what others have done before. And as always....have fun !

Michael

Encouragement not discouragement

Hi 

Don't knock the humble 4X8, and no I didn't start out with one, my first was in a 10 X 10 shed and a figure 8 in an 'L' shape with risers and ribbon roadbed.   There have been a lot of good plans published over the years on the starter layout scene for the trusted 4X8.  Just remember that there are a lot of 4X8's out there that could be starter layouts and just to get your feet wet.   Whilst some advocate modules to start with like the TOMA system unless your familiar with carpentry and aligning modules and have had some experience with the tools to do the job I wouldn't advocate starting out this way.  Like anything learn some of the skills needed first and then progress on to some bigger and more challenging things.

Remember that for a beginner the humble 4X8 can be just a sheet of plywood on a couple of saw horses or on a table.   It is and has always been the starter layout for many folks.   Remember that John Allen's Gorre and Daphetid started out with just an oval of track and a size less than 4X8 and if memory serves it was only 3X5 feet and that grew into one of the most respected and famous layouts ever.

Remember that starting out in any hobby is a learning experience, you will make mistakes, we all have and we still continue to, remember that FAIL is not a negative word it means First Attempt In Learning.   Have fun and enjoy the experience you are at the start of the journey and it will be a long and happy one.

Rob McLear

Australia

Thanks a bunch

Wow, as usual, a great response from everyone.  There was a whole lot of information presented by everyone and I appreciate it.  As of now, I am sticking with the 4X8 option since I do have room for it without being in the way.  It's something I can get going quickly and start learning from.  Once I get the room I plan on using for a more permanent setup sorted out, I'll look more into the TOMA concept as I think this will work for a lager layout. 

I look forward to sharing my growth in model railroading with everyone and learning more from everyone here.

4' x 8' inspiration from the past

Hi Thecad,

May I direct you to Harold Minky's Pacific Coast Air Line web site for inspiration. Although this site is targeted at ON30 scale, a lot of the track,.operations and scenery processes are "scale independent", in that they will work well in many different scales.

Also have a look at the concepts of "Loads in/Empties Out" and the central divider viewblock that can allow totally visually different scenes to be modelled on the same 8'x4' board. 

Take time to have a good look around Harold's site. It is loaded with good information for someone starting out.

Even though ths genesis of this layout is well over 10 year's old, the information contained on Harold's website is still pretty relevant to someone starting out today with a 4' by 8' layout size. Remember DCC and sound weren't readilly available when this layout came into existance. If these aspects were added to Harold's layout design fundamentals and scenery technique foundations, then you might just have an excellent 4'x8' layout that will keep you both busy and entertained for years.  

If I had the room for a 4X8 layout

If I had the room for a 4X8 layout

The best 4x8 designs I've seen came from master designer Byron Henderson -- even though he hates them: http://www.layoutvision.com/id47.html

The California Dreaming design is good in that if the operations bug bites you will have some good operational possibilities. Or look at this article on ops on another 4x8: http://www.layoutvision.com/id39.html

In N scale, I really like his Port of Houston trackplan featured in the 2002 edition of Model Railroad Planning: http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/mr_ptra.jpg