Outbuilding

I'm about 150' away from my

I'm about 150' away from my house and that's just perfect. The walk is good exercise and it's far enough so my wife doesn't pop in for every little thing...

weather?

do you live where it's cold outside for a major part of the year?

Isolated?

30 to 40 feet is not very far away from the main house, so I wouldn't think that would be much of a deterrent to working on the layout.  I'd be more concerned about the comfort of the space.  Water/sewer, along with heating and cooling are a must have.  Walking back and forth to the house looking for water, or a bathroom, and having the building to hot/cold...., now those are real deterrents to layout progress, or fun.

"would you do it again or

    That really depends on your life situation. I have a separate workshop/train room 50 feet from my house, it was originally built for a large O scale layout but by the time I decided to build I'd lost interest in such a large project so I split off part for a  layout room and left the rest as workshop.When I was younger it was fine but now I'd prefer a smaller space inside the house. The large shop is hard to keep clean and it get's hot or cold depending on the weather.I have another small layout in a spare bedroom in the house that I work on when I don't feel like heading out to the shop and if I was starting on a new arrangement now I'd prefer a nice large room in a house or built as an addition to the house. My shop is 32 by 36 but I think about 20 by 20 for a layout (with a separate shop space about 20 by 20)would be a good compromise between space and upkeep....DaveB  

Not My Building

But I'm a member of the operating crew: https://southernpacificcoastdivisionmontereybranch.com/about/ (scroll down to see some construction photos). One thing you will be faced with is the permitting process and building inspections. That caused some delays with the construction of the building.

You mentioned that distance from the house might be a deterrent to working on your layout. If you're trying to do it all by yourself, the lack of willing workers would probably be a bigger deterrent (quoting from the web page:  A new structure was built with a LOT of help from the operations crew). I think that's really the key if you're not contracting out the entire construction project. Of course, the crew didn't stop helping when the building shell was completed.

Mike

I've Got an Outside Room

I have a separate building in my backyard, about 40' from the house.  While summers here in south Louisiana are hot and humid, the winters are generally pretty mild, so I don't have to get out in freezing cold.  Generally I like the idea of a separate building.  My building is comfortable, having central air and heat, as well as a restroom.  I have a small workshop within and a small sink mounted in one of the counters.  It's very quiet.  When the layout is complete and operational, I will like the idea of having folks over with the ability for them to come straight to the train room without having to navigate the house (especially if the train room is buried deep within the house).

The downsides that I've experienced:  if it's raining out, I dislike having to go back and forth in the rain.  Sometimes at night I'd prefer to be inside the house while building a model while semi-watching the tube.  Sometimes I'd like to do just a "little task" on the layout, but will not because of having to go out to the building.  This is especially true if I haven't dressed yet for the day, or have gotten ready for bed early in the evening.

Same here

I echo the comments you've heard so far. My space is a second story above my shop. It was an "attic" like space with sloping ceilings that was fine for storage but has been a challenge to build a layout there. In HO it seemed like 16' x 24' (outside dimensions) was generous but a switch to On30 make for some tight walking areas. 

Positives are the 40'-50' from the house does provide some isolation and separation from the house and family activities. When I'm out there no one bothers me but when inside I'm with family even if sitting at my little pilots desk. When done the front covers my mess (in theory) and looks like furniture. 

I can make a mess outside without repercussions from Mrs. E. Some things take time to dry and/or cure so odors are away from the house.

Most of my train stuff is away from the house with the exception of some off scale things I like to display. This makes it easier to find (usually). 

In retrospect I would have created a place to hang out rather than fill the whole space with railroad. Yes, I thought I'd like the complete immersion into a miniature world but reality is that it is nice to sit and browse here or have a comfortable place to sit for a while and read, draw, or chat.

Would I do this again? I have a 20' shipping container that I've done numerous plans to see what would fit and be able to take with me if we move. Mrs. E is always thinking that it rains too much so who knows. I plan to build a covered walkway to the shop/train room at some point but I really don't mind it that much. I have a couple umbrellas.

The separate space may add value to the house if you can't or don't have a basement. My windows are covered when running the layout but the backdrop can be removed for some fresh air. A daylight basement might be the answer or a split level home would be another choice. If it could be closed off for the noise and odors then that would be my first choice. I would leave room for family and friends to hang out or spend the night and keep the layout to around the walls in part. My interest in operations has changed my perception of what I would be happy with for a layout so switching and staging - return loops at each end would be fine. I might even finish a layout that way!

I'm converting an existing

I'm converting an existing 30x40 pole building with a concrete floor for my layout.  The man door is about 40 feet from my door. Plans include fully studded walls and insulation, AC and heat and wifi.  I'm still kicking around the idea of putting a toilet and sink in.     I don't see not being in the basement a detriment.  I am building my first two modules in the basement now, but most of the basement was finished years ago when the kids were still at home and I don't really want to rip out all that work for my layout.

Jeff White

Alma, IL

Outbuilding

Utilities

Power is a given - are you going to split it off from the house, or have the electric company put in a separate service drop? That could get spendy. Life support (heating and lighting) would be at least two 15-20 Amp circuits, the layout another. Might want to run a 100 Amp 220v circuit out there and break it down into separate 110v branches there. 220v straight might be excellent for driving a heat pump. 

Plumbing - how far do you want to have to run to get to a toilet? Or even a sink, when you think of how many of our activities (scenery, painting, Decals...) require water. And of course sewer return, properly angled, or a septic tank of its own. 

With cell service, phones are not so much an issue, unless you already have poor service and manage to build a Faraday cage for a building (I was in several such buildings yesterday). 

Internet - how far does that wifi signal stretch? It won't go through a metal building wall, btw. 

So you may be looking at trenching from the house to the outbuilding, and putting in water sewer, and two conduits (power and communication and the twain should not meet). 

Just things to think of. I work for a phone company in a rural area, and "can I get service out to my shop" is a common question. It can also be an expensive one. 

The big way to save money on

The big way to save money on these things is to do it yourself, as much as possible. Buying things in bulk saves as well. You are talking about a 16 x 24 building about a one car garage. If you are using the home depot take your list of materials to the pro-desk and ask for a quote on all of it. They will put together a quote for the materials and likely save you some money on the materials.

One of the biggest costs for a project like this is the labor. If you can and I mean that can build it yourself you could save quite a lot. If you can not you need to Know your limitations  and hire someone. That will also save you money by not paying for bad mistakes that can often happen when someone does not know, plumbing, electrical, carpentry roofing, etc.

Great inputs

Thanks all for the inputs.

A couple things, when I'm off shift from the fire department (21 years, with only 7 until retirement) I own a home improvement company. So the actual building itself is not an issue. I have the plans done, TJI joists for flooring to allow for ample insulation, 2x6 walls for the same. Getting a mini split system for AC/Heat. Bathroom, probably will not be an option, but is something to consider. Electric no big deal, I have a 400 amp service in the house.

I already have a 36x52 pole barn, but that is chock a block with leftover building materials, pickup truck, a jeep, backhoe, etc etc. I thought about just framing in area in that, since it has a roof and cement floor. But that is over 100' from the house.

I guess my biggest concern is when you just want to do a couple little things and dont want to be totally isolated from family (just wife), as both kids in college by end of year. or as was mentioned the weather just sucks. BTW I am in MD, so not to brutal of winters.

So I guess its down to just my personal preference, and whether I want to be separated from main house to work on the trains. I could keep a small work area in the basement for lite work on models or such. 

Thanks again for the input,

Rob

Family

Rob:

Since my youngest left for college I thought there would be more time to work on the railroad. Now my wife really has no company/buddy to spend her time with so I am finding myself doing more with her.  Not that I mind at all! We have actually become closer (again) and that relationship has changed my feelings about the physical separation between the house and railroad room. 

Rob is right, of course, and since you are very capable at construction it seems either solution is within your grasp. While I am an architect, many of my own projects have been reconstructing older buildings as well as hands on, like you, so concrete, framing, electrical, etc. are things that can be done as an owner/builder to save money. It still costs a lot of money. It also eats up a lot of time.

Getting friends to help pour concrete, frame and tip up walls, fly trusses ,hang and tape all help and can be good fun. A dedicated building will eventually need to be sold and thinking of what someone else might use it for will make it more valuable as a guest cottage, home office, workshop, etc. 

Keep us posted!

Outbuilding or addition?

Have you looked into an addition to the existing house? You then get a separate space and your still connected to the main house. No separate insurance, heat, cooling or plumbing. Also as you get older, which we all do, it will be much easier to get to layout. Not to mention God forbid if you hurt yourself much easier to call for help.  

Not really an outbuilding, but...

We live in a small house built on a slab, thus no basement and the two small spare bedrooms need to be kept free for when the kids are home (lord knows what we'll do when they have families!). My wife, bless her heart, suggested a garden shed from Home Depot or similar. Would almost work space-wise, would keep me from being over ambitious in layout planning, but then you have to consider luxuries like power, temperature control and limited backyard space. Never really an option.

I thought about using the garage, but here in Chicagolandia we have to deal with potential 100 degree swings INSIDE the garage, so that wasn't a solution. We do however have a small alcove off the main (one-car) garage meant for a small shop area or just general garage storage. At the open end, I added a wall with a door, pushed out into the main garage area by almost a foot to give me an enclosed space of 38.5 square feet, or as I like to say 308 cubic feet! Would make a medium sized walk-in closet! The space shares a wall with the utility/laundry room so was able to add short supply and return ducts for temperature control. The door is a nice solid exterior door and the floor (bare concrete) has a thin but insulated sub-floor. I wasn't too careful or concerned about the minimal plaster work, didn't want to create too much plaster dust, it'll be fine for my needs. Will also have some modest electrical done, which should probably have been done anyway.

With Sn3 my scale of choice, this leaves room enough for a simple switching layout. Radius would be too tight for a U-shape without carefully notching one or both of the walls, though that is safely doable I'm going to pass, would probably be too tight a fit for me. So, just almost 9 feet on one side and 52"  along the back wall. Could easily handle 18" of width on the long wall and maybe 24" on the short wall, though corner access will be carefully considered. While framing out the door wall I did leave a temporarily plugged hole at roughly 60" off the floor to eventually lead to a simple staging area which could be 10-12 feet long but would have to be covered, maybe a boxed-in shelf for protection against the afore mentioned garage elements. The limited space will actually be a good thing, keeping me from over-extending myself in terms of time and resources.

That will be plenty for this stage of my life until we retire and possibly move in a few years, who knows? I'll still be able to store quite a bit in the space and will still have room for a small bench for my Sherline mill (can't very well use that on the dining table), a general narrow work bench and a small paint booth (vented to the outside), assuming I plan it right. It will be like an outbuilding as one still has to go through the garage to get there, but rain won't be a problem (unless the garage door is open)! It will also provide isolation up to a point, yet still technically part of the house.

Again, not an outbuilding but sharing some of the same qualities, without spending too much on heat/AC or other amenities. Sometimes you just have to make do and get creative... In the future I'd go with a detached outbuilding under the right circumstances.

Mike McKenzie

Frankfort IL

Reading my mind

I was looking at that this morning. I have a 14x14 room now. if I add on to it I would only need to go out 10-12' to get close to what I want at 14x26. It would  be concrete block walls  to tie into existing foundation, and make it look more part of the house. Anyway thats the direction I am heading now. Just extend utilities into the room. Again I can build it myself so I save a ton of money there.

My experiences in a small building

I have a small 12' by 8' outbuilding for my layout. The main issues I met are ones you won't if you build yourself. My building is a low cost construction (think Storage Shed rather than building) and as such is drafty and slowly starting to lean to one side side - NOT good for a model railway!

However, three things that I have found may be of value to you.
1) Make sure you have a big door to get lumber etc in.
2) Make sure you can lock/unlock the room in shelter. I have no guttering on my building when it rains I can get quite wet simply unlocking the door. A porch would have been a good idea!
3) Security. I have Cat 6 cable out to my room but I have not yet extended the house alarm system to it and it does worry me. I probably only have about $3,000 worth of gear in the room but that is much more than I can easily replace. A larger space will have significantly more model equipment so do protect it.

All the best with your project
Robert
CEO & Track Cleaner
Kayton & Tecoma Rly

My wife insisted that I build

My wife insisted that I build a separate layout building since there wasn't any space in the house itself.  I wound up with a 20x36 building with the first 6' being a tool room.  No windows in the layout portion.  One outside door and the layout room door is right inline with it.  So gettiing long material in is no problem.  It has it's own underground power feed directly from the meter box.  Our meter boxes have space for three (I think) large breakers in the bottom portion, so it saved me from installing a bigger breaker box in the house.  My biggest regret was not having a floor drain since I had to run a dehumidifier.  Seems the through-wall HVAC didn't dehumidify.  I have since taken it out and replaced it with a mini-split.  Lighting is one three wall switches; same for all wall outlets.

I have a carport in front of the man cave which doubles as a sawing area and break room in decent weather.

As far as insurance, it is covered under my home owners, coverage B - other structures.  No extra cost.

My Layout is in an Outbuilding

My layout is in its own building behind our house.  The building is a custom Tuff Shed that is anchored to a concrete foundation.  The building exterior dimensions are 16 ft x 36 ft.  The layout occupies a finished area that is approximately 15 ft 4 in x 25 ft and it is heated and cooled with a mini-split HVAC unit. While the winters are mild here in central Texas, the summers (the other 10 months) get pretty hot so a dedicated HVAC unit was a must have.  The remaining 10 feet of the building is used for tool storage and has the dock for doing any large cutting of wood, masonite, etc. The building does not have any water or a toilet since it would have required another septic system which was above the allocated budget.  It is only a short walk to the house.  Here are some pictures of the building.     

seperate layout room

I like my seperate layout room.  I enjoy having the seperation from the house.  I added onto a garage that was not attached to the house.  Its about 30 feet from my back door.  and 26'x26'. 

Out building ideas

Since I have to build my out building myself, I have some unique ideas for it. First off, I am using an old mobile home frame for the main support under the building. This serves two purposes, since it's considered a portable building, no building permit or inspections are needed, the other part being it would actually still be movable by a house mover, if I ever had to relocate. Secondly, at 20 foot wide by 60 feet long, I would build it to resemble a small town railroad depot, complete the operator's bay window, where the dispatcher/control operator would actually sit at his desk, and the staging and interchange operator would be behind him to operate the staging yards. There were actually portable depots on many prototype railroads, and they didn't have the extra wide roof overhangs like permanent depots, and tended to be rather long and narrow in shape. Mine would have the "waiting" room as a crew lounge with a bathroom, and the model railroad would occupy the "freight room" part of the building, it will be about 20 feet from the main house with it's own parking and access. As I mentioned in my earlier post the building would be handicapped accessible, and the ramp needed and deck near the door would simply resemble the station platform and ramp that was used for the freight/baggage cart. The 8 foot wide by 8 foot high "freight door" would be very convenient for moving large items into the building. No separate power meter needed since I had 400 amp service installed when the new house was built, and water and septic are easily available near the building's planned location. 

Room concept Where would you put a door?

So after the input gathered in this thread and a conversation or two, I have decided to do a 16x16 addition off of the basement train room. I have included a proposed plan of the room.  My dilemma is this now. I need to have an exit door there on of the two walls. I have marked positions A, B, C. The radius are for me to determine peninsula ends and a helix (the largest diameter of 30"). I want to do a double deck, with logging, a town with 2-3 industries (coal, stone, TBD) on upper deck. Lower deck will be a rail/marine complex, and 1-2 more town with switching. staging below main deck (hence helix) Without staging I have contemplated a "nolix".   Sure where would you put the door?