betsy662

As I promised earlier on another blog, I would do some video of the V&O, and here it is, not bad as far as Trainz routes go, however it does have its gremlins, one of the tunnels isn't complete, and there doesn't appear a way to make it complete, this tunnel also isn't a portal or iportal, so the train doesn't disappear inside it only to re emerge somewhere else on the route, the train will just crash through a mountain, go figure, could be a DLS problem or maybe a content creator problem.

 

Wasn't able to get all the locomotives that this same creator reskinned specifically for this route, while missing kuid's (kool unit identifiers) are generally not a problem, I've run into a problem thats probably more Windows7 related, as I can't change the kuid to another trainhorn sound file, explorer literally will deny me access, I will figure that out, but as of this writing, my number of actual V&O motive power is somewhat limited, as I was only able to get some SD40's and GP40's to show in game.

 

All rolling stock lettered for the V&O downloaded and show up in game without any errors, and thats in TRS2006.

 

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jcarls

Riding the V&O

Looking forward to the next installment!  Carl

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arthurhouston

This not model rring

Please go find your own world, where ever that is.

This not Modeling.

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Pirosko

Well, I wasn't sure what my

Well, I wasn't sure what my opinion was going to be until the previous response. That's like saying MRH is not a magazine either because I can't flip pages and it doesn't cost me a cent. 

What this is is another medium to enjoy trains, electronically. I do not own one of these software packages but, I could see a very important use for them. There may be a day that I will no longer physicaly be able to enjoy 3d models, but may have the energy to sit at a computer and dream, plan, build and run my virtual model railroad. And it may even be without compressing any scenes. The possibilities of layout building could be endless!

I just thought the previous post was a bit harsh and we all should enjoy model railroading in our own way. And sharing the ideas, whether you agree with them or not, should not be hindered.  Personally, I thought it was pretty neat, and so did a few others.

Steve 

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joef

I've done this myself ...

I've done some "virtual railroading" myself and it's a lot of work to create in this way!

I prefer the "big tent" approach to the hobby. I think we need to be careful we don't define the hobby so narrowly that the next guy's way of doing trains doesn't become "inavlid" or (more harshly) "worthless".

In one sense, this is making train movies with the help of a computer - do we put down Polar Express or Thomas the Tank because it's not modeling? It's just digital bits as well - but I think we should celebrate there's enough interest in trains that there are people spreading the subject of trains around in this way as well!

 

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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BlueHillsCPR

Trainz

Always like to see what you are up to with Trainz, thanks for the video!

Quote:

Please go find your own world, where ever that is.

This not Modeling.

Art Houston

Grande Pacific RR

Art,

 

Go find a world where mean spirited comments are appreciated...wherever that is! [wink]

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CAR_FLOATER

Oh Art.....

I tend to agree with you, because you ARE right, it's NOT model railroading, but I definitely would NOT have said it quite like that. Now, you are just gonna get dumped on by everyone else for being the "mean guy" (not that you may or may not care, I'm just saying) and your opinion is gonna be all but ignored. And that's a pitty.

I think that the entire "V-Modeling" craze is something that techno-geeks and the younger-computer-savvy generation have embraced as a way to avoid "real" MODEL railroading, (for a multitude of legit reasons that I'm sure exists to anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together, so lets not get into picking nits, people). Does that make it bad? Nah, but it doesn't, in my opinion, count as what is "real" model railroading, because if you were to ask most people to define the term "Model Railroading"  I bet they'd agree that you really are not modeling anything in V-Scale, and no, lets not start counting pixels and electrons as a modeling medium, OK? Why? Because that is a slam to the people who build beautiful scale models for not only competition and enjoyment, but who have spent years building their layouts and nejoy sharing it with others.

Do I think V-Scale has a place in the grand scheme of "playing with trains"? Sure, I guess it does (and yes, I bought MSTrainSim when it came out, but I got bored with it real quick), just as Thomas the Tank Engine does, as a way to get the youth of today interested in trains, which is important, REGARDLESS of what hobby we might be discussing. I'd even go as far to say that MAYBE one day the NMRA might have to bow to pressure to allow V-Scale contest entries, but I still say it's not really model railroading, until they can figure out how to truly involve the social and hands-on aspects of it like model railroading as we currently know/define it.

RAH

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LKandO

3D or not to 3D

I simply couldn't resist chiming in on this post. My newfound hobby is model railroading and I have for the past 6 months watched, read, and collected everything I can get my hands on. Yes, I am a newbie and no, I am not a master modeler. However I am observant and one thing glaringly apparent is the fantastic skills, knowledge of, and talent for modeling some people have. Many are represented on this very forum. What you do is by any definition an art form and, unfortunately for me, demonstrates far greater artistic capability than I know I will ever achieve. I can have only the utmost respect for you and what you create. Thus it is no surprise you so vehemently defend your turf when a radical departure from the long established norm is introduced such as in the case of computer train modeling.

But... to say computer modeling is not modeling is simply not a valid statement. No, it isn't brass and styrene but rather it is keystrokes and mouse points. And just like traditional modeling the raw materials, be them sheets of brass or sequences of keystrokes, are of little value until a talented artist forms them into something amazing.

Last year in my day job I was asked by the company to familiarize myself with 3D modeling. The suits had seen it used effectively in sales and marketing communications elsewhere and wanted to have the ability to do the same in our company. They investigated the cost of using an outside vendor and decided it was way too expensive. I work in the marketing department and have for years produced creative content for our company communications - videos, print, presentations, etc. So, they figured let's get Alan to do it and save some money. After all, he knows Photoshop, InDesign, Premiere and After Effects like the back of his hand so how difficult could it possibly be for him to learn 3D? Being naive I thought the same when they asked it of me. Sure I said. How tough can it be?

Fast forward to today. Gentlemen, take a look at the web page for Autodesk 3DS Max. It is a professional computer modeling program. For over 18 months I have labored away trying to become proficient with it. I am being paid to do so. From a complexity standpoint compared to say Photoshop, 3DS Max is like comparing an Athearn BB to a scratch built brass Challenger. I am well past the "this keystroke does this" and "this button does that" stage and have reached a point where creative artistic ability has come into play. As I stated before, I am no master modeler. I now realize my lack of artistic ability is impeding my ability to create convincing 3D models.

So, if computer modeling is not modeling then why is my lack of modeling skills slowing my 3D advancement? Take a look:

. Over a hundred hours to produce what in the professional 3D world is equivilent to a Tyco triple dome tank car! Just as you start with basic materials I start with a blank screen. Unlike you, I know the technical specifics but lack the "knack".

I grant you that Trainz is relatively amateur 3D modeling. It is supposed to be. It is designed to have fun with without a steep learning curve. In fact it can be enjoyed with no 3D modeling work at all thanks to downloads (someone else's modeling work). But, it is modeling nonetheless. Perhaps one day a Trainz "modeler" inspired on by your comments will evolve their skills into a fantastic professional 3D modeling career and find work creating the next generation of hyper-real model railroad components that you yourself will assemble into something amazing.

It may not be your style of train modeling but it surely is train modeling. At least they aren't frittering away their time playing Legend of Zelda!

Thanks for allowing me time on my soapbox,

-a

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
nsparent.png 

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CAR_FLOATER

Good Point.......

Hey Mr. LK&O..........

I have to agree, in today's hobby, we wouldn't have the models of cars and locomotives (not to mention things like laser cut structures or things like Fast Tracks jigs) WITHOUT computers to either do the drafting or make the tools/models. Yes, even CAD helps us plan layouts.

AND I do not deny that computer modeling does not take as much time and effort as actual modeling - Regardless of HOW you model, it's all about what you put into it. I'm a procrastinator to end all procrastinators, and if it took me 8 years to build a layout that should have taken me half that time if I had just worked on it regularly, can you imagine how long I'd take to build a V-Scale layout? I mean, these things take time, or so I'm being led to believe!

AND, I agree it takes a certain kind of tallent. I don't have it (nor do I want to develop it), but I am not saying that those who have it should not be "allowed" to use or express it in such a way as V-Scale modeling. All I'm saying is that while I agree it can be a creative avenue unto itself, I just don't view it as "flesh and blood" modeling, that's all.

I'm actually waiting for the question to be put forth, "If somebody made a V-Scale model of New York Harbor in the 1950's with virtual tugboats and carfloats, you'd be singing a different song, wouldn't you?", and the answer is no, because I'm already building it. It's a tactile thing, personally speaking.

And most importantly, please remember fellas, this is just one persons opinion, and we all know about opinions, now don't we now?


RAH

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BlueHillsCPR

3DS MAX & Modeling

Quote:

take a look at the web page for Autodesk 3DS Max. It is a professional computer modeling program. For over 18 months I have labored away trying to become proficient with it. I am being paid to do so. From a complexity standpoint compared to say Photoshop, 3DS Max is like comparing an Athearn BB to a scratch built brass Challenger.

Good thoughts Alan,

 I know the Adobe apps you mentioned too, though perhaps not as well as the back of my hand.  I tried learning 3DS Max and found the learning curve to be much steeper than even After Effects.  However, like you, where I found my skills were really lacking was when I got to the point that I could work with the application well enough to be creative.  That's when I found my 3D creativity was lacking.

The interesting thing about this situation is I don't think the OP has ever suggested that Trainz is Model Railroading.  Maybe I am wrong, but I don't remember him making that claim anywhere here, yet along comes another guy to bluntly tell him that what he is doing is NOT model railroading.  HUH?!  Who said it was?

 

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betsy662

 Wow! Interesting comments to

Wow! Interesting comments to say the least, let me just say that I have been playing around with Blender, a freeware 3D modeling tool, guys! This is the scratchbuilding of today, as one poster has mentioned, (a couple have mentioned really!), the learning curve of any 3D modeling program is very steep, far steeper than learning how to scratchbuild with wood or styrene, another good 3D modeling program is Gmax, which is really the poor mans 3DSmax, as Gmax is made by the same company, but is freeware, most of the models done for Trainz and Railsim are done in Gmax, however more and more are being created in Blender, for those with any doubt that it is modeling, I suggest they check out Blender and Gmax, trust me, you will get the idea right real quick that it isn't as easy as it looks!

For those who don't know me very well, understand that I also model in HO scale, and I do have a layout, some of my previous blogs have included photos of said layout, as well as video, do I work on it very often, well! No! But I do do real modeling in HO scale, and have been a model railroader for over 30 years..

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LKandO

On caliber with this community

The V&O Trainz video sparked an exchange about the relative merits of 3D "modeling". Check out Lars Andersen's entry in the Vue competition. I know it is not tactile but it came entirely by his hand from a vision in his head just as a MRR does. Keep in mind this a 3D scene. You can move the camera around and see all objects from any angle and they are complete just as if you were really there. The time this must have taken and the talent to do it is mind blowing.

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
nsparent.png 

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joef

This takes real skill

Yes, this sort of virtual modeling takes real skill and ability - to suggest that it's not valid and has no place in the hobby is sticking your head in the sand, IMO.

It reminds me of the Swiss watch makers in the 1970s. They invented the digital watch, but because it didn't have little gears and hands, they gave away the circuit for free at a trade show in the early 1970s because it wasn't a "watch". The Japanese saw this and a decade later, they owned the watch making business because it had gone almost totally digital - and the Swiss watch makers had laid off 50,000 workers because of this blunder. Watches are about helping people tell time - not about building little mechanical devices.

Is model railroading a hobby that simulates the full-sized trains, or is it gluing sticks of wood together and slinging plaster in the basement? Will we make the same mistake the Swiss did, and not know what we do really is about?

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

[siskiyouBtn]

Read my blog

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bear creek

Model Railroading as a hobby?

Quote:

Is model railroading a hobby that simulates the full-sized trains, or is it gluing sticks of wood together and slinging plaster in the basement? Will we make the same mistake the Swiss did, and not know what we do really is about?

I think neither - nobody really "needs" to simulate full-sized trains or glue sticks of wood together or sling plaster. No one is going to die if this doesn't happen.

Instead it about our emotional needs for creativity.

I asked Horace Fithers what he thought, too... He told me

"Simulating full-sized trains? I though these were full sized trains!"

He also had some opinions about which part of building a railroad was best...

"Let's get plastered!"

Oh well...

Charlie

 

Superintendent of nearly everything  ayco_hdr.jpg 

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