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shorts

Fri, 2010-06-18 06:31 — last skunk
Well, I've waited a few days to post about this fun issue with the shorts, I'm not sure how bad it is but it is a re-occurring theme and was repeated no matter what I did to prevent it from happening. Just so there is no question about what I am using and doing, this entry is thorough.
Step 1: measure pcb tie against pdf printout and cut to length
Step 2: file off the burs, lightly brighten the copper foil, file flash off of the fiberglass surfaces
Step 3: put tie into fixture and mark gap locations
Step 4: hold tie flat against table and file gaps with small sharp triangle file, front and back
Step 5: with an ohm mete test continuity of tie gaps, every last one at least twice on both sides
Step 6: put into fixture and solder on stock rail from the center out
Now here is where the fun begins because Step 7 now is to test the ties and continuity again and now there is a short with the very first tie soldered to two rails. This tie passed the first test prior to soldering and there is NO solder that has flowed around or down the tie, the iron was only on the tie for 2-3 seconds, the solder is heavy but acceptable joint. I de-soldered the tie tested it was fine, so how does being soldered to two rails cause a magic short? I do some more filing on the gap, sides and ends and the short is gone. I solder the remaining ties to the stock rail and once again the short has reappeared. Ties that have two or more gaps are easy to eliminate as culprits and the backs of the ties show no shorts.
The only thing left to target is the sides, no excess solder but that 60-120 reading is still there so I file the snot out of the sides but none of that should matter if the tie has been really gapped in the center.
After loads of filing on the fiberglass side of the pcb I can get the short to register just over 1k but it’s still there.
On these three switch starts, done slightly differently for each, I had the same magic short appear, so I started thinking maybe invisible solder traces, so I took the suggestion of using a marker to dirty the gaps to prevent solder, but that had no effect. So after starting six switches the problem showed up on five.
I did notice on a completed slip-switch, my first one there were no shorts, and I marked the entire sides and ends of ties with a black sharpie, no telling why I had no problem with that one because it was a real mess of soldering.
If anyone has a clue feel free to guess cause this is pretty frustraiting at this point.
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Comments
Remember the resistance
Remember the resistance reading is Ohms X 1000, so you are showing about a million Ohms of resistance there.
Are you cleaning your work with alcohol after soldering? If not get some 100% isopropyl alcohol and a small, stiff brush. Scrub all the solder joints and ties with the alcohol after soldering and let it dry. You may be getting a tiny bit of conductivity across the gap from a thin layer of melted flux, from oil from your fingers handling the ties, maybe even from the sharpie ink.
Your hand
If, while you are measuring resistance/conductivity, and your fingers are in contact with the ohmeter probes, you are also measuring the circuit through yourself. For me, that's in the 400,000 Ohm range +/- a couple hundred thousand, and everyone is different. Your readings on the X1000 range would be consistent with a circuit through you. Put a piece of dry paper, or some other insulator between you and the probe, then measure. I hope that's your problem.
The only other possibility I can think of is that you have fine copper particles in the gap, forming a conductive path.
Don
Rincon Pacific Rwy, 1960. HO scale std. gauge - interchange with SP.
DCC-NCE, CMRI, JMRI
Simple ...
The answer's simple ... you're touching the metal part of the probes and the tester is adding you to the circuit. Your body is also a conductor, albeit a poor one. Keep your fingers off the business part of the probes, or wear rubber gloves (like the heavy diswashing gloves) - and then see what you get.
If you have a short, the resistance will be near zero 99% of the time. Anything else will be a high resistance connection between the two rails and is extremely rare.
The way a resistance tester works is to run a small current from a battery through the circuit and measure the drop. If you touch the metal parts of the probes, then there's a small current flowing through you, hence the high resistance reading.
Keep your fingers off when measuring resistance or it will skew the reading!
Joe Fugate
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine
It's true!
In fact, with a good meter I have measured different body resistances based on pressure, perspiration and proximity.
I have to agree you are likely the high impedance short circuit your meter is detecting.
Zeus' brother Billy
Sorry about the confusion, I should have used the other pic, I don't normally test with my fingers, just did that to take the shot. It's just the contacts and the metal, no fingers used in the 6hrs of filing and testing. My meter isn't that sensitive, $9 home depot. The readings only happed after soldering so; heat, solder, flux, copper flakes or something gets active throughout the pcb because the copper is cut, from the first test. The minuscule current is there, where it wasn't and shouldn't be. (I have come to the conclusion that it is microscopic electro mites hand carrying the current in buckets)
At this point, I just want to know what is the limit for DCC interfernce, because at 60 DC ignores it. If it's safe to put in the additional 6 hours of construction to finish the switch and be satisfied that it will work on the layout then I can move on having discovered proof of an afterlife.
Shorts !!
I have a suspicion that your multimeter may be the problem. If you access to a good digital multimeter it would be worthwhile rechecking the readings with it. I went and rechecked my own fasttracks turnouts just to see if there was any reading using the highest and lowest range on my meter (20meg, 200ohms) and there was no reading whatsoever and then borrowed a $2.00 shop analog meter and bingo had a minor reading where previously there was none. Hope this helps
Meter check
If I may add my 2 cents, irrespective of the quality or sensitivity of your meter you will always get an infinite reading if there is no conductive path somewhere in the circuit. The resistance of air, even very humid air, is so high your meter can't measure it and assuming your fingers are not in contact with the probes then there must be a conductive path through your assembly else you would get no needle movement. If the short is due to a copper foil path then the resistance would not be a million ohms as your meter shows. Rather it would be relatively low probably a few ohms at most. The meter passes only a very small amount of current through the path to make the measurement so even the smallest of foil shorts will not cause much resistance. Therefore your culprit is more likely to be oils, flux, or some other coating on the PCB ties. Try cleaning the assembly with alcohol as mentioned earlier or a stronger solvent such as lacquer thinner if you have some. Also, check the resistance of the piece of pine you are using as a work surface. If the wood has a high moisture content it could have a resistance of a million ohms across a short distance. I seriously doubt the paper or ink of the template print would be conductive but would still remove it to elliminate one more variable. Lastly, if all else fails, try passing a large current (amp or two) through the assembly. If in fact your short is a microscopically small foil path then it will blow like a fuse when the current passes through.
Best of luck to you,
-a
Alan
www.LKOrailroad.com
Current
If your reading of 60-120kOhm is correct, that will give a current from one rail to the other of 0.0009A, hardly a short. You can have 1111 of those before you reach 1A.
Altho it's strange that it shows up, I doubt it will be a problem.
Copper slivers...
When laying track with PC ties, its is EXTREMELY important that all slivers of copper, both at the edges of the ties and where gaps are filed in the upper foil surface, are COMPLETELY removed.
I habitually use 400 grit emery paper to 'polish' (well not quite polish...) the edges and surfaces of my ties. I thoroughly inspect all gaps for slivers or burrs.
Why? Because at one time in the past, I put a turnout into operation that seemed to be working fine. The ohm meter said there were no shorts and rolling stock tracked through it without problem.
However, one day during an op session the dread words were spoken - "Hey, does anyone else smell smoke?"
Anyone else(s) did indeed. Track power was shut down and an olfactory search was performed. Eventually the smell of charred cork was traced to the turnout. As near as I can tell, a whisker/burr/sliver of copper foil had been left on the turnout near the points (that's where the charred cork was located). Originally, it had made no contact with 'the other side' (that is the electrical other side) so there was no short.
Somehow though, that whisker/burr/sliver had gotten bent or shoved a bit so that it was ever so gently brushing against an adjoining PC foil area of opposite electrical polarity. Not enough to make a low impedence short which would have triggered the DCC booster crow-bar circuit and shut down power. Instead it was a high impendence 'short' which apparently allowed a couple of amps to flow. Not enough to trigger the crow-bar protection in the boosters, but plenty to get things really, really, hot.
So now, I use the 400 grit to smooth the edges of PC ties and an very careful about visual inspection of gaps with a magnifying aid looking for whiskers. AND I try to never leave track power on unless someone is in the train room. I don't know what would have happened if nobody had been there to smell the smoke and shut off power, but I'm glad I didn't find out the hard way.
Charlie
Editor, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine
High impedence 'shorts'
When you are measuring the impedence from rail to rail in the turnouts:
I suspect you've probably done all this already. But thought I'd mention them just in case.
FWIW
Charlie
Editor, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine