"Any ideas for this room? Too

HI Kristine, welcome to the forum.

That's a pretty small room to fit all your wants in HO scale but I think you could get most of them and make a nice layout. I'd probably remove the closet doors so I could build benchwork across the wall there and just duck under to get to the closet.  I'd go around the walls with about 24 inch wide benchwork and add a lift out or entry gate so the mainline could run continuous around the room when desired, this would also allow running laps to gain distance when operating point to point. I'd place one town on the right and one town on the left and build a center peninsula for an industrial branchline, or a yard and engine service or whatever fit the needs of the layout the best. Here's a quick sketch of the concept, the towns and peninsula could have the track plan developed as needed for the location modeled.  

Yes, hand laid turnouts  can be built to #5 specs( I'm using them for the same reason you mentioned on my new layout) to save space or one could buy commercial #5 turnouts if preferred. Lots of layouts have been built with 24 inch radius so if you have to go that sharp to fit what you want in don't worry about it.....DaveB

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Well I'm more then willing to

Well I'm more then willing to eliminate things. I would like a "scenic" layout. It's why I love that Iain Rice trackplan, but its hard to translate into a usable track plan since the clearances are pretty tight. It seems to give a bit of everything. Small industries, continuous run (which TBH wouldn't break me if I didn't have one), a few scenic "quiet" areas, and a small, albeit compact, yard. A little bit of everything, and doesn't seem like something impossible to do.

I would like to try for a broader minimum radius, even if it means cutting back on certain things, just for the looks TBH. I never thought about a peninsula though. Hmmm.

I've been trying out stuff in AnyRail, but I haven't gotten any AHA moments quite yet.

I would go N scale, but I like HO due to the detail I can add, and while of course I'd love big articulateds, there's something charming to me about small line steam, and I was hoping I could come up with something that could work in the room size. 

Thank you so much for the ideas!

Kristina:

I just think it's cool that a young girl like you has both the interest, and already a rather impressive amount of knowledge of both the prototype and the hobby. I'm N-scale, so I would go nuts with a space that "large!" But I'm starting to become really interested in weathering my locos and rolling stock, and this is the first time I've had second-thoughts about my scale-choice. Though it's too late now, since I have way too much invested in brand new, expensive N-scale stuff. So, I think you made a cogent decision in sticking with H0. Good luck, and I look forward to seeing your progress!

—Metrolink

P.S. That's a ridiculous-cool looking bridge!

Modeling the Inglewood oil fields and the Mojave Desert in N-scale freelance.

Kristina...

...I like your ideas and welcome. It is good to see a young lady interested in trains!

I really like the plan you are looking at. I looked at the plan for myself but my room is even smaller! Iain Rice is a master at track planning.

I think you could fit it in with a bit of finagling. If you take the doors off the closet could you fit the staging yard in it. That would have the effect of increasing the room size. You might have to lower the radius in the hidden section a bit but with the smaller steamers you are planning for I doubt that will be an issue. The Orford side would need to be squeezed a bit shorter but there seems to be room. If the door swings away from the closet the end of line could be behind it.

One of the things I do when trying to adapt a plan like this is make several photocopies of the plan and your room plan and then cut and paste.

Good Luck.

Footprint

 Your biggest challenge is you are wanting a lot of stuff in a small space.  With the space for the doors/closet access you really end up with a 10x9 space.  With that size space I would consider downsizing to 24" radius and not worrying about the Berkshire.  That means you can go down to a 90' turntable.  I would also suggest 18" deep benches if you have a peninsula, to give you better aisles.

You can intrude into the closet and room door space but it will all have to be lift outs or temporary track and that is not necessarily the best option from a scenery standpoint.  Your best bet is to think of a branch line that has one engine on it.  MR had plans for 8x8 or 10x10 rooms that would be much more suited for your layout.

There is a plan in the MR database for the "Oak Valley" layout, its for a bit larger room, but you could reconfigure it to fit your room.  You could also connect "Lakeview Siding" to the turn back "blob" with a lift out to get continuous running.  It has a small bridge on the blob.  If you put a backdrop down the middle of that blob you could make the bridge a bit longer and have that as your bridge scene which would be right as you walked in the door.

http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database/2014/05/ho-scale-oak-valley-rr

I would also suggest waiting until you have a track plan before buying expensive kits.  Other wide you will be designing the layout around the kits.  An added complexity that your don't have much wiggle room for.

Welcome to MRH

A question??? what size passenger cars do you want. 85ft or closer to 60ft? 85 footers look terrible on 24" curves. 60ft not so bad but look a whole lot better on 30" radius if you can do it.

Room space--- can you or would you consider taking off the swinging door. With it off you can put in a long tail track into that corner and/or have an easier time of putting in a lift out. And yes take off the closet doors.

Ian Rice has 3 books out by the way and all 3 have good ideas for rooms your size. One of the things I love about his plans is they give you an over all picture of what the layout could look like when it is done if it ever is. It is though pretty difficult to shrink a plan even by a couple of feet. What you might do is to take a few small bits of paper and go through each of his plans and cover up parts of them so you only see a small section. Then consider that section and as you find sections you like copy them and fit the pieces together to come up with a whole plan.

Building kits---I agree with the thought expressed in another comment about being careful with buying super kits or any other kit. Building a kit according to directions is great, but then you have to fit the foot print into your layout and that can make for a lot of reconstruction. On the other hand a lot of kits are like freight cars and locos, if you don't buy it when it comes out you may never see it again. The solution to that is 2 possibilities. First is to build using the TOMA plan and have your kits on hand for a section and layout their foot print with card stock and plan around them. The other is to see each kit as a large collection of parts waiting to see what can be done with them. Every time you buy a kit you have added to your part collection. This is better known as kit bashing and some folks are really good at it. Takes a very flexible mind I think. TOMA is the idea of building one section at a time to completion. There are several threads on it.

Jack

The passenger cars would be

The passenger cars would be the 60' variety. Small 3-4 car consists at that. I want the railroad to have a "small time" feel. The Ann Arbor railroad was a pretty large system but small at the same time. It offers a LOT of interesting operating opportunities. And they even had a handful of 2-10-2s as well. They were most famous for their car ferries (SS Badger is still running). They did have a handful of interchanges with the Pere Marquette, but I think Manistee offers a lot of opportunities in itself. Cherries, Lumber, Sand, Salt, Potatoes, Grain, Tourism. There's even an old roundhouse still visible on google maps too. Norton Salt is still railserved by the modern day branch line, there's a handful of Magnesia companies, packaging companies, ethanol plant, and grain elevators, all still recieving rail service. The Manistee and North Eastern is mostly what ran through Manistee, but its hard to come by information about them. They were bought out by the Pere Marquette. Only one picture I could find of a locomotive:

There's no turntable, but 4 stalls are left, along with their yard. Norton Salt is right below them.

The other thing I could consider as an industry, plus an operation haven, would be to model a car ferry. The SS City of Milwaukee is still sitting in Manistee, rails still on it too.

Just wish I had more space. My BF said I could use the walls around where the pool table is (very large room), but god forbid people start nailing the layout with pool cues!

I do realize the kits are the cart before the horse, but we are weird enough, if they had no place on the layout, we'd make a diorama and display them elsewhere.

I'm definitely using Iain Rice's layout as an inspiration. I'm trying to go for a less is more approach. Most of the structures I've been looking at have small footprints, and I'm planning on just small spurs to serve them. I'd like ONE scenic area where I could try and make a smaller version of the bridge. The bridge isn't there anymore but the foundations are, a portion of the Manistee National Forest is named after it.

I would like continuous running, but I think if I get myself away from needing it, I open up more opportunities for operations and scenery. I enjoy doing scenery, and my bf does as well. Its why we are going the craftsman route for buildings. While I could take up the offer for the basement shelves, I think a small room makes it easier to put a lot of detail into everything.

I'm messing with AnyRail at the moment trying to get some ideas together, and I've been doodling as well. Not trying to rush it.

Start small

and expand later. As for the basement walls, watch a few games from the sidelines and really pay attention to where the cue sticks fly around as shots are lined up. One solution would be to get Plexiglas panels that are held in place some how. You can't be the first modeler to have dealt with the issue.

Car ferries are neat. Plan on one myself at some point. They are great for interchange as well as off layout staging yards/storage. If you deal with eBay, Walthers put out a large water front series during the early 2000's I belive  and part of it was a car ferry.

Jack

Scope

The AA car ferries were HUGE (at least compared to your space).  Back in the 1970's or 1980's MR did a terminal switching line based on a harbor that included a "car ferry", the Kinickinic Railway and Dock Co.  In reality what it was was two tracks going into a hidden staging yard and the mouth of the "tunnel" was the bow of a car ferry.  Only about the front foot to 18"  of the ferry was modeled.

  Alright so I tried to

Alright so I tried to duplicate the portion of the track plan Iain made in Any Rail. Unless I'm not creative enough, I can't get it to work. It "supposedly" fits in 9' x 3' (the portion to the left of the orange line which is the backdrop), but I can't get it to work. I would like to put this on the left side of the room, but boy is it a challenge to get right. I ran out of allowed pieces in AnyRail (trial version), I'm very stumped haha. I was going to try and make this portion to plan, and then switch to 24" radius behind the backdrop for staging. I even used mostly atlas 4.5s and wyes to try and get it to work, and I just can't do it lol.

The plan is to roughly follow Iain's plan after this, and have the above "flipped" so it sits on the left side of the room. If I (or someone brave enough) can get this to work, I was going to try and compress it down once more into 8' but we will see. After this portion it will curved around to the other wall to where I will stick the other industries, and have a curved yard in the corner near the closet to represent town #2. A lead off the yard will go in front of the closet to where the grain elevator will sit. That's the idea anyways.

I do know those car ferries are just enormous. Maybe one day....

Geometry issues

Dear Kristina,

It's been alleged that some published Iain Rice plans may have minor "geometric discrepancies",
IE curve radii and turnout geometry that is tigher/smaller than indicated.

Even if the plans are perfectly-drawn and dimensionally accurate,
using a different brand/range of turnouts from these specified can make the difference between "just fits" and "not a chance". (Do you have a specific Brand/Range of turnouts in mind?)

Given what I can see of your AnyRail plan, I suspect you're being a bit too generous with the "curvy bits".
Moving those mainline curved-turnouts in should be do-able,
and the switchback spurs can easily be placed closer-together to fit within the orange line...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

I am realizing now that they

I am realizing now that they are pretty hard to duplicate but he does a remarkable job at using a small space wisely. Two industries, a freight house, a depot with an express track, and a small yard in a space like that? It's genius to me. Didn't think that was possible.

As far as turnouts the curved ones are all Walters, no6 are ME (that's the flex track I have too. Got a bundle of 50 for $10), and the #4s are atlas. I might just switch all the turnouts to the atlas 4.5 if only due to the fact it saves space. The curves are pretty generous. I think I'd have to go the hand lay route to match his plan but I don't know. I'm not a total beginner with model trains but not experienced enough to do that.

Are the atlas 4s really sufficient? I've read in Armstrongs book that they are fine aside from crossovers but it seems as though everyone uses #6s? Largest engine will likely be mikados, plus some 60' passenger cars. 

I plan on playing more tonight to see what I can do with it. I only have a handful of older Bachmann steamers from my childhood that don't fit in with the layout plan (Niagara, j class, 2-6-2 nyc) so I'm planning on purchasing mostly new steamers  Broadway limited seems to have the best selection with most stating to navigate 18" which is shocking. How atrocious does a Mikado or a consolidation look navigating 24" curves? 

Remember it is possible to

Remember it is possible to trim some track from the ends of turn outs and put them closer to each other. You will likely need to go further down the spur with a curve but you might get the track to fit better. If 2-8-2s are your largest locos you should have no issue with them on curves as sharp as 18 inches. The larger the radius the better they will look.

Another idea might be to model just one town and the industries with staging. You could keep your bigger curves and have a terminal to work on the line. The steam era will use lots of 40 foot cars and some 36s as well so your trains should look very good on smaller radius curves.

Well then maybe changing the

Well then maybe changing the curves to 18" or even 22" for staging and a continuous loop would make for a viable plan? Have the visible portion be similar to Iain's plan (I've been doodling throughout the day to come up with something that works), and then have the staging condensed greatly. It doesn't have to look pretty behind the backdrop. Con-Cor (first one up on google) says their cars will navigate 18". So say a 22" (for reliability) min radius for hidden staging and 26-28" for visible radius? Would that look half way decent?

I do like your idea Rob. Have a dense town on the right half of the room, loosely resembling Iain's ideas, and then around the rest of the room have industries. Maybe a small depot on the other end of the layout to resemble a town, but nothing more then the depot.

Thank you all for the advice, its great to draw on the experience of others. I'm not planning to build for quite sometime, as I want to make sure everything works out right in the planning stage so that the layout will be around for a long time to enjoy.

Edit: Walthers suggests 24", has anyone been able to run their 60' cars on a 22" radius? It would just be for the hidden/staging portion of the layout.

Kiss

If I were to start over, and as much as I admire Ian Rice, I would keep my layout quite simple. Ian packs a lot in a small space but it takes a talented modeler to build these as drawn. If you haven't read Lance Mindhiem, or other advocates of simple layouts, then take a breather and check it out. A lot of experience and satisfaction can come from small packages. 

The publisher of MRH repeats "Do what got you interested in trains". If that is a lot of track laying then go for it. If it is short trains with a destination the plan on staging (maybe at each end or shared) that lets you rail fan. Do you like the lowly peddler freight who must keep an eye on the clock to duck out of the way for the Express? In a small room you can create a fun layout that others here will attest can challenge your skills and stand the test of time. Check out Ken Glover, The Redowood Sub, Jarhead's shelf layout or others like 5th &a Rust (I think), Cleveland Flats, etc. 

Lecture over. I'll go back and sit with the rest.

Good choice for inspiration.

Good choice for inspiration. Ian's plans have a flow and style all his own. If there are any grades on the plan though, check carefully for turnouts at the start or end of grades in his plans. That is something that looks better on paper than it works in reality, especially in small spaces.

Be sure you are setting the track in Anyrail to the brand Ian says he drew in his plan. Different turnout manufacturers products aren't all exactly alike in overall length. 

Try to keep the largest radius you can on curves for better operation and appearance.

Good luck and post progress.

Curves

Pop the door off.

I think you can pop off the door that leads into the room by using a dowel or big nail to hammer out the pin in the door hinges. Maybe hang a curtain over it?

Or redo the whole door so that it opens out, instead of in to the train room?

Have you built any layouts before?

Some Suggestions

A couple of suggestions; go ahead and buy one or two of the building kits you are interested in, spend some time building them to see if you enjoy that aspect of the hobby. I know people that only build buildings! They never get around to building a layout, and that is fine since that is what they enjoy doing.

I would suggest that 24" curves will be fine, also look at #5 turnouts such as the Peco mediums, #6 are too large and unnecessary #4 are a bit tight. Start out small and simple to find out which aspects you enjoy the most, then expand from there.

The Ian Rice books are great inspiration, the Brits really know how to make the most of a small space!