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Eastern coal hauling short line concept Dream and design
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Regular poster 203 posts Phil Keppers pkeppers Regular poster 203 posts
Phil Keppers pkeppers

Lately I'm thinking about an idea I've had for some time and thought others might have some comments/advice so I decided to post my somewhat rambling thoughts.  

What I have been thinking of is a proto freelance HO scale short line set someplace in the east, probably West Virginia, maybe Pennsylvania.  It would be roughly based in concept on the East Broad Top (although standard gauge) or maybe the Buffalo Creek and Gauley and possibly some other short lines I've never heard of.  The main purpose of the railroad would be to haul coal from several mines on a dead end mainline.  On the other end of the mainline would be a decent size town with an interchange with a class I railroad.  In addition to coal there would be a logging line that would meet the mainline at a sawmill town somewhere between the interchange and the coal mines.  Possibly I could fit in one more town with some other industry.

I have a 24 X 30 basement with about 1/4 of it being the stairs/furnace/workshop.  I want the layout to be very ergonomic and I can get about 110' of approximately 30" wide shelf by going around the walls and out onto a peninsula in the 3/4 of the basement that is for the railroad with 4'+ aisles.  The layout would be single deck meaning the entire length would be a little less than 2 scale miles.  

The main objective is to model something that is believable as being a complete railroad.  I know the current emphasis on staging but that is something I don't want.  The outside world is the interchange.  I could possibly see modeling 15' of the class I in the town with the interchange and having that go off into staging making a complete hidden loop around the basement so the class I can run through and pick up and set out cars for the short line.  I picture the short line being maybe 30 miles long.  That's similar to the length of the East Broad Top which was a "real railroad" as far as short lines go.  I want to create an interesting operating scheme that would be good for 1-3 operators and a dispatcher.  

I am thinking mid 20's for era with small steam.  The mid 20's were the real peak of railroading.  Consolidations, Mogals, Ten Wheelers.  15 cars looks like a very believable train behind one of those.  I run 4 F units on most trains on my current layout and even 30 cars isn't convincing. 

The operating scheme could have a yard switcher at the interchange town that made up the trains and switched a couple larger industries, maybe a brick plant like the East Broad Top or a power plant or a paper mill or some major user of lumber, basically industries that would have a reason to locate there and be served by natural resources delivered by the short line but would also have incoming traffic via the class I interchange.  There could be 2 road engineers in addition to the switcher.  Say 3 coal mines at the end of the line with an average of 10 spots each for 30 cars per 12 fast hour shift (2 hours at 6:1) and a 15 car max train length means 2 loaded and 2 empty coal trains each direction per 12 hour shift along with 1 general freight and a passenger turn in that 12 hours for a total of 7 runs up or down the mainline in 2 real hours.  There could be a prep plant and maybe coke ovens to switch by the mines too.

I'd like to make an operating experience that is somewhat believable.  You start your 12 hour shift at the roundhouse, take your engine out of the roundhouse and get water and coal then head for the yard where the switcher is making up your train then head out over the mainline doing your work then making the turn at the end of the line, coming back and maybe making another run up the line heading back and ending your shift with dumping the ashes and heading for the roundhouse.  None of this parking your train in the hidden staging yard stuff.  I know that is how most peoples layouts operate and my current one does and I just don't like it.  It kills the feel of it being a real railroad.  The 110' length seems like it would be believable for 30 miles.  That seems like a length a crew could realistically have made two turns on in 12 hours.

I'd run with the passenger trains on the timetable and everything else being written train orders.  I want enough operation to keep 3 guests busy with a formal op session if I dispatch but I want the flexibility to operate alone or with 1 or 2 guests and skip the written train orders for verbal authorization for a more informal op session.  I like to operate and want something easy to re-stage.  This layout would just require removing the coal and lumber loads and flipping the waybills.  I have a lot of the magnetic Accurail removable coal loads and they work great so that isn't a big deal.  

So, just a bunch of random thoughts and rambling.  If anyone would care to comment or has suggestions I'd like to hear them.

Phil Keppers

 

 

 

 
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Prof_Klyzlr Moderator 7,956 posts
Prof_Klyzlr

Wild stab in the dark...

Dear Phil, Wild stab in the dark, but try to pick up a copy of the Sept 1994 Model Railroader, and check for Jim Hediger's "Carbon County Ry" plan/article. It was focussed on diesel era, but that's just an open invitation to "create your own backstory" to the presented plan... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr
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TrentUK86 Regular poster 116 posts
TrentUK86

Roundhouse and turntable

The idea of modeling the whole shift sounds like a great challenge, and having all the features/tasks in place would surely 'make up' for any compression that might be going on. The only thing is, I've read some of the articles about turn-table and roundhouse building in MRH and that looks to be one of the most complicated things you can do (could be wrong, never tried it). Ready-made turntables exist but look like quite a lot of dollars.

Bearing in mind you'll want a smooth non-frustrating turn table for operating sessions, could all of this become a stumbling block that stalls the layout? Not saying it would, as it will all depend on your level of experience (which will be more than mine by the way). 

Perhaps you could make that part of the layout a plug-in module of some sort, and use a temporary staging area (edit: as in, whilst building the mine and town and other relatively easier parts so you can start running trains sooner) (I know, but ...) or use a non-roundhouse engine shed. Perhaps a railroad of this sort wouldn't need a whole roundhouse? 
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jramnes Active Member 74 posts
jramnes

Exciting!

Phil, as someone who has seen your modeling, this concept excites me! But I would hate to see your NP layout go away. We will have to discuss. 

Jim

The Milwaukee Road in Preston, MN on Facebook

My Train Photos on Flickr
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Virginian and Lake Erie Super User 9,238 posts
Virginian and Lake Erie

One railroad you could look

One railroad you could look at would be the interstate railroad for inspiration. Same with the Manns Creek which you might be able to model nearly complete

Rob in Texas

MRH Blog / Prep for an Operating Session / Delving Into the Past / The Club Blog / Youtube / etmrc.org
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Douglas Meyer Prolific poster 2,052 posts
Douglas Meyer

The Manns Creek Railroad was

The Manns Creek Railroad was an idea I had also. But it was narrow gauge.  It used shays and hauled coal and lumber. It connected to the C&O at Sewell West Virginia in the New River Gorge.

There is a book on the whole thing. It is out of print and expensive but it is the only book you need with the possibility exception of a two inexpensive books on Sewell.Another option in that time would be Cass as at one point it hauled lumber and coal.  

There was also the lumber and Coal operation of the Meadow River Lumber company that operated on much of the trackage that the C&O owned Nicholas Fayette and Greenbrier which used 2-6-6-2 that you can get in brass or plastic.  The MRL co. used shays and one heisler to haul the logs to it's huge lumber mill.  Then the C&O engines of the NF&G ran them down into the New River Gorge via a switchback arrangement.

So those are the three I would look into.  Cass, Mann's Creek, and the NF&G/MRLco.

 

-Doug M

Modeling the C&O New River Subdivision in 1943.

A
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fecbill Frequent poster 614 posts
fecbill

Appalachian Railroad Modeling

Check out the site Appalachian Railroad Modeling, has some track plans and info on railroads of the area.

http://appalachianrailroadmodeling.com/

Also Model Railroad Planning 2016 has an article about Jeff Kraker's On30 railroad based on the Mann's Creek

Bill Michael

 

 

Bill Michael

Florida East Coast Railway fan

Modeling FEC 5th District in 1960 

 
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fishnmack Regular poster 222 posts
fishnmack

S&NY

The Susquehanna and New York would be an interesting choice.  Connecting with the PRR on the west end and the Lehigh Valley on the east, this road was constructed to haul wood products and coal.  Most of this railroad was pulled up in the early 1940's.  Look for the paperback book titled "STORY OF THE SUSQUEHANNA & NEW YORK" by Edward L. Kaseman, Lycoming Publishing.  
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Phil Keppers pkeppers Regular poster 203 posts
Phil Keppers pkeppers

Don't worry Jim, NP will

Don't worry Jim, NP will still be in the basement at least through the op session next Sunday.  See you then.
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Phil Keppers pkeppers Regular poster 203 posts
Phil Keppers pkeppers

I was pointed to the

I was pointed to the Huntingdon and Broad Top Mountain Railroad as a possible model for what I was thinking and from what I have learned it sounds very much like what I had envisioned.  It also gave me another idea that would add a lot of interest.  The HBTM was a bridge route for a feeder to the PRR until about 1910 when the PRR completed it's own branch.  What I was thinking is that at what I was thought would be the dead end coal mine town there would be a connection to a one train a day branch of a different class 1 railroad.  That way I could justify a small amount of pure bridge traffic, maybe 10 cars a day but I could have traffic to and from on line destinations headed both ways on my short line.  

 
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hoghead40 Active Member 33 posts
hoghead40

The other PRR

What you describe sounds a lot like the Preston Railroad. They ran from Hutton siding on the B&O at the Maryland/WV state line on  to Turner-Douglas, WV where there was a multi-track coal mine operation. At one time Preston ran out near Leadmine, WV for logging operations.
Power for Preston in later years was a three truck shay with wooden cab, a very neat mogul, and at the end, a pair of light Baldwin 2-8-0's from West Virginia Northern, which still exist. There was a ferocious grade up to the B&O interchange that was quite a show. The last three mile segment of the Preston was abandoned in 1961.
Find out more in "Tall Pines And Winding Rivers"  by Ben F.G. Kline, which is a history of Maryland's logging railroads with a chapter on Preston [and being written by Ben Kline, is excellent].
There also was a "Railroad You Can Model" story on the Preston RR in the old Model Trains magazine about 1958. Look for it in the all-time model magazine index...
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