TXTrainGuy

Hi All,

After being on a hiatus for the past couple of years, I'm looking to resume where I left off.  The reason for putting a hold on the hobby is due to my being laid off, and with the hobby being as expensive as it is, I just didn't have the budget.  However, I'm glad to say that I've been working now for the past year or so, and I've come to a point where I'd like to resume where I left off.

First, I was able to convince my wife to let me take over one of the guest bedrooms (10x11), with stipulations: I can't cut holes in the drywall, can't block the window, and I can't block the closet doors or remove the doors.  Hey, I'll take what I can get, right?  

I was able to create a free-standing modular(ish) G-shaped benchwork.  I probably should have come up with a layout design before creating the benchwork, but I already created it, so may as well go with what I've got.

Secondly, I'm a complete beginner.  I have a few DCC locos (two with sound), a Digitrax Super Chief starter system, a Kato oval track set with siding, and I have a preliminary N-scale freelance design I created using Anyrail, but I still haven't reached a decision.  I still haven't decided on Atlas Code 55 or Kato Unitrack.  I think the Kato Unitrack is probably the best route to take for a beginner such as myself.  But then again, I see all of the Fastracks layouts here, and I must say, I would love to go that route, as well...but again, I'm still a novice when it comes to soldering and wiring, not to mention scratch building and scenery.

Below are some snapshots of the room and the benchwork that I'll be working with.

nchwork1.jpg 
 

nchwork2.jpg 

nchwork3.jpg 

nchwork5.jpg 

nchwork4.jpg 

Below is the first layout that I created using Anyrail.  This plan was derived from John Armstrong's "Dispatcher" plan in a 1952 Model Railroader magazine issue originally for O scale reduced down to N scale. There is a 4% grade (that is, it slopes 4% for every 100 scale feet) on one section of track. The rest of the layout has a 3% grade. The NMRA states that the maximum grade should be 2.5%. For the tressle bridge I want to use, the layout needs to be at least 6" high from the lowest surface. The color indicates mountains and the number indicates the height in inches from the lowest surface.

design1.jpg 

A fellow model railroader from another forum helped me come up with the following plan, which includes industry, a switching yard (minus turntable), and a staging area (in blue).

right_2a.jpg 

I recreated the above plan using Unitrack below, but as you can see, everything is "too straight" which might make it look more toyish.  I'd like to go with a more realistic approach, but I'm not sure.

plan_v13.jpg 

 

I'd love to get some opinions/suggestions from some experts out there given what I've done already, keeping in mind I'm totally new to the hobby.  I can provide the Anyrail files for those who ask.  I appreciate any help y'all can give me.

Thanks!

Tom
Austin, TX

Reply 0
ctxmf74

"I'd love to get some

Quote:

"I'd love to get some opinions/suggestions from some experts out there given what I've done already, keeping in mind I'm totally new to the hobby"

   Your benchwork looks very well built, that's a great start.  For a first layout I'd greatly simplify the track plan, I'd run a mainline  route around the tables using either Kato unitrack or Atlas code 55, not more than 10 turnouts to start with so you can learn how to install track, turnouts, and wiring,etc. then after you run it for a while and figure out what you'd really like you could re-build it with scenery in segments  adding features and making changes as you go. A study of prototype photos and track configurations(instead of photos or track plans of layouts)similar in era and location to what you want to model, along with a copy John Armstrong's book "Track planning for realistic operation" will go a long way toward ensuring that a layout runs well and looks good. First layouts never turn out to be last layouts so making them as simple and cheap as possible and using them as learning tools makes more sense than trying to guess what your ultimate layout will be....DaveB

Reply 0
TXTrainGuy

A study of prototype photos

Quote:

A study of prototype photos and track configurations(instead of photos or track plans of layouts)similar in era and location to what you want to model, along with a copy John Armstrong's book "Track planning for realistic operation" will go a long way toward ensuring that a layout runs well and looks good. 

I've actually done some extensive prototype studies by looking at some old Sanborn Maps, primarily in the Austin, TX area, which really wasn't much of a railroad town after 1932.  It has the Mo-Pac Expressway that is still in use today, but it's not very interesting.  I would love to prototype something in the early 1950's era (something where I can run both steam and early diesel), but still haven't found a locale.  I'm fond of the old Missouri Pacific and Southern Pacific lines which were prominent in my area, but when shopping around hobby stores, I'm finding SP and MP loco and rolling stock are pretty hard-to-find.

As far as John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation," that was one of the first books that was suggested to me, and I have it sitting next to me.  It's definitely helping me understand all about operation, and how to run a yard.  And it's given me some good ideas as far as how to design multi-level layouts (I was thinking at some point putting in a helix with a free-standing 2nd level addition since I can't drill holes into the wall).  For the layouts that I've already designed, I purchased several 2" thick 2x3 sheets of styrofome for the base, and was thinking of purchasing some incline/decline sets from Woodland Scenics for the different elevations.

I'm probably like most people, and want to do too much at once, but I hear ya'.  I probably should have some self-control and start simple and work my way up.  After playing around with Train Simulator and Trainz, I'm finding that switching is really fun and challenging, so I'd definitely like to have a somewhat complex yard at some point.

Reply 0
musgrovejb

John is good, but.....

A lot of people thank John Armstrong "hangs the moon" but I have found a lot of his track plans are too "busy looking",unrealistic, and outdated.  "Basically, let's see how much track we can squeeze into a space designs."

First, I would avoid getting "shoe horned" into a design based on existing bench work.  "Even if that means disassembling what you have."

Second, make a list of what you want out of your layout.  Example:  Interested in industry switching operations, passenger service, yard operations, specific industries, time period, etc....

Third, once you have an idea of what you want from your layout, start researching real-world operations including prototypical track layout and operations based on your interest. 

Fourth, plan your layout using either paper and templates or design program.  "The Atlas website has a free layout design program that's pretty decent."   Don't skip the design stage, it's amazing how many times your eyes can deceive you on what will actually fit!

Finally, build to what you can actually manage not to the size of space you have.  One of my first layouts was an N-Scale layout setup in a 10x11 foot bedroom.  "Does not sound so bad."  But, the layout design was too much to manage with my schedule.  So, the layout became a never ending chore and quickly lost its fun! 

"Keep us posted!"

Joe

Modeling Missouri Pacific Railroad's Central Division, Fort Smith, Arkansas

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLENIMVXBDQCrKbhMvsed6kBC8p40GwtxQ

 

Reply 0
ctxmf74

 " I'm fond of the old

Quote:

 " I'm fond of the old Missouri Pacific and Southern Pacific lines which were prominent in my area, but when shopping around hobby stores, I'm finding SP and MP loco and rolling stock are pretty hard-to-find."

Hobby shops don't stock very much stuff, just the current offerings if one is lucky. The place to find N scale rolling stock is ebay. You'll find more SP and MP stuff than you can ever use, just make a search every few days till you find what you want. Those flat tables you have would be perfect for a Texas layout representing a MP/SP crossing location with interchange. The two lines could each have a loop around the room with one spot where they cross and exchange cars. A few Texas appropriate industries and the scene would be complete....DaveB  

Reply 0
Russ Bellinis

Building the bench work first is not a bad idea.

I know that some have suggested planning before you build your bench work, but building the bench work before actually planning the layout has advantages.  As you are planning a layout on paper, it is easy to cheat on turn radius or the size of a turn out to make what you want fit.  If you have bench work already built, you are forced to lay out the track to fit what you have built.

If you have little experience with model railroading, build something and run trains.   That is the best way to find out what you like best about the hobby.  Some people like a nice long mainline and just running a train around the layout to simulate train watching or railfanning.  I found that I like switching out industries to simulate picking up and delivering freight better.  You really don't know what you will enjoy the most until you run a few trains.

Regarding the warning not to start more layout than you can finish in a previous post, since you have bench work built, you do not need to fill the bench work with layout to start with.  I would put down track with something like caulk to hold it in place to start with.  Caulk will hold the track in place, but allow you to take it up and move things around if you find something not working for you with just a putty knife.  

After you have had enough experience to know what you enjoy most in the hobby and what you want to build, build it one section at a time.  Finish each section with scenery before moving on to the next section of the layout.  You can come back and add more details later, but scenery and a few structures will give you a sense of accomplishment.

Reply 0
prostreetamx

I was pretty lucky to have a

I was pretty lucky to have a large loft (20x20) that I double decked but since I did not have some of the restrictions you had like holes in the walls or removing closet doors, I was able to expand into a bedroom also. I agree that since this is your first build that you should not just try to fill every square inch with track. It works for some guys but even my large layout has some very simple track schemes with some small areas dedicated to small industries. My goal is to run trains that have to travel some distance before they do something else. You need to design your layout to match your goals, not just cram in as much track as you can. I like long scenic runs and the biggest benefit I see with N scale is that you can run some pretty long trains. I model in HO scale. If you have all your track that close, you lose this feature since long trains will just be looping around themselves. If your goal is a switching layout with lots of small industries, there are a lot of track plans out there now that will meet that goal. You don't need to match the exact plan as you can just bend or straighten some areas to fit your space.

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Virginian and Lake Erie

Many of John Armstrong's

Many of John Armstrong's designs were what they are because he was designing them to fit a clients need. In his book track planing for realistic operation he addresses those things and covers ways to get what you want into your layout.  There are guys that still do track planning for a fee and from what I have seen they are good.

You already know some of the things that appeal to you and have mentioned them above. You also mentioned prototype railroading that you would like to follow. I would suggest making a real in depth list of what you want and  or like in the way of railroad equipment, scenery, favorite prototypes if you have more than one.

I will just toss this out for discussion maybe you like SP, ATSF and MP as your favorite roads for example. You are looking for things in the early 50s to model. You like steam and diesel locomotives. Look at the models available for your time period in your scale and how hard are they to get. What type of railroading do you like or at this point think you like. Is there a place on your chosen railroad that has all this?

Another approach might be to model a place that has all of your favorite roads in that location where they could interchange with each other. By depicting that you might be able to build what you want on your first try. The big thing is figuring out what appeals to you and not someone else.

I have a couple of blogs covering some of these things one the club blog and the second delving into the past that covers researching a location and free lancing a layout based on history and the prototypes that were in the area as well as my deviation from history. You might like the info there and it could give you some ideas. I also have videos that you might enjoy.

Reply 0
TXTrainGuy

Thank you all for the

Thank you all for the opinions and comments.  I'm finding that I'm raising more questions than answers.  Y'all have given me a lot to think about.  To clarify some things:

1) Since my benchwork is somewhat modular, I can pull it apart and readjust if necessary.  Or, if I find I need to add to the benchwork (to accommodate radius, for example), that's no big deal.  I'm not confined to my existing benchwork, but if it happens to work out, all the better.  I have enough plywood in the garage to add a second, even third level, if need be.  I'll just need to be a creative due to the restrictions the wife laid on me.  I understand her point of view....I was laid off once, and if we have to move, it'll be a lot easier to tear down a modular setup than one that is permanently nailed/glued to the wall.

2) While I do appreciate continuous runs and railfanning, I like the challenge of switching. During my hiatus, I started playing Train Simulator and Trainz, and I found all of the switching scenarios were really fun, and the drive from point A to point B to be very boring.  As an IT guy, I want to be able to control the switches from a computer and/or from a tablet, and there are lots of solutions out there that do this from what I've seen. This is the thing that really got me thinking about what I want to do with my railroad. 

3) I must have some of the John Armstrong bug in me because y'all read me pretty well.  I do love tracks, and thought the more tracks I have, the more the challenge.  It doesn't make sense to have a lot of track of I don't have any scenery to go with it, so you got me there.  I'm just going to have to bite my lip and have a little more patience, because some of the scenery and buildings y'all create are absolutely gorgeous, but takes time.  That's definitely something I'd like to learn, as well.  This hobby has just about everything to keep one's mind active.

4) My layout is probably not big enough to have a group of people over for operations.  I suspect it's mainly going to be me, and maybe friends/relatives who visit from time to time.  I'm a member of an N-scale model railroading group, as well, but I haven't gone to any shows or worked on their modules, well, since I haven't been active.

Dave, can you give me some examples of some of the Texas routes I might look into?  I don't necessarily want flat, but then again most yards (with the exception of hump yards) are pretty darn flat.

Tom

Reply 0
ctxmf74

" can you give me some

Quote:

" can you give me some examples of some of the Texas routes I might look into?  "

   Hi Tom, I don't know much about Texas railroading, only been there once for a short visit but I know the SP and MP were competitors for much of the state's traffic. Info for the SP in Texas would be found under SSW               ( Cotton belt) or T&NO( Texas and New Orleans) . A google search might turn up some useful info or photos and members of this  discussion group more familiar with the area will surely add some input. I seem to recall Denison TX mentioned in an SP article about interchange traffic so you might check out what went on there in your time frame......DaveB   

Reply 0
joef

Looks too low

As a beginner, which you freely admit you are, your benchwork looks too low to me. After a lot of experimenting, the Layout Design Special Interest Group found elbow height to be close to perfect. Your benchwork looks to be near buttocks height, which is about dinner table height, which is good if you're sitting down. Building a layout this low gives a helicopter view for running trains from a standing position, which doesn't really let you railfan the models as well, or allow easily seeing car numbers and the like if you're into operation. The LDSIG did a survey of current layout owners some years back and they all said they'd build their layouts higher if they had it to do over again. The smaller the scale, the more important it is to get the layout height up there. N scale layouts at elbow level or slightly higher look fabulous. For me, elbow height is 54", and that's the LOWEST level on my layout. Much of my layout is closer to 60", and it maxes at about 65", which for me is chin level. The high layout level is one thing I learned early from the LDSIG (you will learn a ton about how to design good layouts if you join up) and I've never regretted it. The trains look fabulous up that high! If you're going to do a lot of switching, then you want to keep things in the elbow to shoulder range as to height so you can reach into the scene for uncoupling, etc. Above shoulder height only works okay if not a lot of switching will be involved.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Read my blog

Reply 0
TXTrainGuy

Joe, First, I have to say,

Joe,

First, I have to say, your layout is fantastic.  If I could build a layout, I definitely would like to have something like yours with trestle bridges, and a lot of mountainous scenery.  One day, perhaps. 

I've asked several modelers when I first started my benchwork whether height mattered...and seeing as I prefer sitting and probably won't be hosting many people over for operations, I figured it probably wouldn't hurt; however, I do see your point.  I don't think it'll be a feat to raise it up a foot or 18", which is where my idea of having a staging area (on the bottom) and using a helix to transfer from staging to the main level comes in....eventually.

I  used David Popp's "Building a Model Railroad - Step by Step" plans for the support tables.  His called for 37" height, and I used the height of 32".

The modules are sitting freely on top of the support tables.  No nails, glue, or bolts.  The modules, themselves, are held together with two bolts and screws on the sides.   I also drilled some holes to pass wiring through. My point is I did take into consideration eventual expansion by adding another level (or two) eventually.  For now, what you see is probably going to be the base of my layout for the foreseeable future.

I'll definitely take your advice and take a look at LDSIG!

Thanks!
Tom

 

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