Some questions ...

Thanks a lot for these,

Thanks a lot for these, Joe!

Yes, I planned this layout using HO scale. While it's a fictitious place, I'm thinking mid-20th century with trains probably 25-30 cars in length. I'm not the hard-core railroad enthusiast who knows the production runs, dates and numbers of every loco on the tracks, but I do have an interest in learning more about the operation of a railroad - so I guess you could say I'm a railfan with engineer aspirations. Thanks for the info on the special interest group - I was briefly looking at their web page.

A great start!

Hi Mark,

It looks like you've got the basis of a good plan with lots of potential, including plenty of room for realistic scenic and operating possibilities.

I do see a couple of areas for concern, however, including the lack of yard leads or sufficient table edge space for the loop at the bottom of the plan. Also, you mention 25~30 car trains, but it doesn't appear that there's enough room to bring trains into the yard. Certainly there's sufficient space along the mainline, but unless you're just going to run around and around, the yard should be made with purpose, rather than just stuck there because you think your layout needs one.

You also left out the room size, minimum radius, and what the minimum turnout size should be. Important points so that you don't run afoul during the building stage.

Like I said, your plan has a lot of potential and give you years of enjoyment. Good luck. I'll be watching for your posts with interest.

Reach

Are the lower blobs accessible from both sides? If not you may have some unreachable track down there.

pqe

Marc & Pelsea- Thank you

Marc & Pelsea-

Thank you both! Marc - agreed! I've gone through several iterations on the yard and I don't think the dust has settled on that one just yet (mostly because I am still gaining an understanding of how yards work, how trains enter yards, etc.). I did pick up the book on realistic operation of a railroad which is replete with diagrams for yards and information on how they work. I'm hoping to bring some resolution to the yard after reading that through. Most all of the curves are made from flex and unless I missed one, I believe the smallest radius is just over 24" and the minimum turnout is a #5. The alcove in the basement where my layout will be built is 22'7" wide (across on the diagram) and just under 16' deep.

Pelsea, yes - both blobs are accessible from both sides. I am 5'-8" tall and have concerns about my maximum reach as well

Hi Mark, Welcome back to the

Hi Mark, Welcome back to the hobby.  Your plan has a lot of potential. I like the flowing track that is mostly not parallel to the walls or table edge. As a result it will look like the track was following the terrain rather than the opposite. A few things you might want to consider, that have not already been mentioned:

• You have no reversing loops so your trains will always go one way unless you re-order them in the yard.  Steam engines and passenger train rear observation cars will have now way to change direction. This may not be an issue for you. If you are purposely avoiding wiring issues associated with reversing loops (or wyes) , have a look at DCC auto reversers, they make life much easier these days.
• The main line is double track everywhere. If that's what you like that is fine. But a lot of modelers like to have at least some single track main with passing sidings. It makes operating multiple trains more interesting.  Of course passing sidings for 30 car trains will consume a large portion of your main line run, so if you go this route you will want ot back off on your std. train length.
• You might be able to get a little more out of your yard space with a steeper ladder. You are letting the turnout # determine you ladder angle, but it doesn't have to be like this.  There are two ways I know of for laying out a steeper ladder 1) Curve the sidings after the each turnout (common practice in the prototype) 2) Compound ladder.  You can also get more length on your sidings by starting the yard on the curve using curved turnouts.  The downside is that curved turnouts cost more; unless you make them yourself.
• Think about more industries. They don't have to big, small industries served by one spur will make for more interesting operations down the road.

janreimers - THANK YOU! I

janreimers - THANK YOU! I knew I was coming here for a reason and you've given me a few things to consider. I'll probably be making some changes as a result. Thanks again!

Welcome

I hope you will post another drawing. If you do please include the room with door(s), windows, electrical panels, pipes, support poles, water heaters etc etc and any off limits areas.

Regards Jan

@ Mark G

Another option for you would be to consider a curved yard. one end of the ladder could be on one of the "legs" and the other left where it is. Doing so would allow much longer yard tracks.

Another thing to consider before putting pen to paper or in the case of computer to printer would be to list the goals you have for your track plan.

Display running? Switching industries? Working the yard to break down and build trains? How long are the trains going to be? Steam or diesel? Those are just a few things to consider. Is it possible to use a larger radius than what you have?

All of those things are covered in various books but the best one I can recall that covers everything in some detail is by John Armstrong.

Reading that book before going any further might save a great deal of waste in time and materials for designing your railroad. Your profession indicates that you have some considerable skill in design so just knowing the questions to ask yourself might help a lot. The book also covers standards for things like turn outs curves grades etc. that will likely be very helpful in designing your railroad.

More ideas can be had here

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/track-plan-database

http://www.layoutvision.com/

http://www.yardgoatlayoutdesign.com/

The two listed on the bottom actually provide design services for a fee and could be hired to help you. I also believe they have posted on here as well several times and you can see some excellent examples of their work and skill by using the search function.

You might find things that appeal to you in the plans listed there. Keeping in mind that part of one plan might be what appeals to you and can be added to your vision.

Welcome back to the hobby. The fact that you are looking for input and ideas during the design phase already puts you ahead of the curve. The other thing that has happened on here from time to time is the readers will often get involved in a design discussion with the op and contribute a great deal to the design of one's layout. You might find several interesting discussions in the various blogs dealing with the design and construction of layouts.

I hope your plan is one that reflects your desires and meets your goals and once you get started you continue to share your work with the rest of us.

Start small?

One thought for you.  Consider starrting with a small section that you can do some operations on.  That way, you aren't waiting years before you can run a train.  Also, the tourist railroad loop on the lower left...you might want some sort of staging, so that you can swap out trains without having to lift them on and off of the layout.  Most tourist lines have multiple trains.  Perhaps even include som sort of connection with the main railroad--many tourist lines do connect with the national network, and find it useful--Conway and Strasburg come to mind.

@ Rob @IrishRover

ROB! THANK YOU! Your post is chock-full of all kinds of good stuff! I do have the track planning book you mentioned but have not yet started through it (it just arrived yesterday - lol). I believe you are unquestionably correct in that poring over such a resource will help keep me from spinning my wheels, so to speak. I am sensing that my layout plan will undergo some serious reworking, but I'm ok with that (I'm actually accustomed to it because of my line of work).

I have also adopted the posture that just because nothing is happening in my space yet, it does not mean progress isn't being made. I've always been a bit of a Nervous-Nellie when it comes to actually digging into a project before I've thought things through as best as I know how. Your suggestion for a curved yard is definitely worth pursuing (as soon as I learn how a prototype yard works and operates). I also believe that my original idea of having the small town on the left and the mining operation on the right would actually work better if I flipped the two (more space on the right for a town).

@IrishRover - excellent, excellent suggestion on the excursion line! I had actually been thinking that more than one loco might be associated with this line and took my thinking as far as a spur, but didn't think about staging for it OR joining it to the main line. I envisioned it as isolated because the current idea is to have it located well above the main line(s).  Hell, if I'm rethinking the rest of the layout, I may as well consider your suggestions for that line as well.

Oh boy, oh boy - lots to do. Gotta keep myself healthy so I can finish this thing (whatever that means in model railroad speak). The Great Train Show (trainshow.com) is rolling into Collinsville, Illinois at the end of November, and that's just across the river from me in STL. I plan on attending and bringing a ton of questions (and perhaps a few dollars)!

Thanks again, guys for being accepting and patient.

Mark G, One thing I have

Mark G,

One thing I have learned over the years is there will likely be folks more advanced than I am at any given task and there will be others not as advanced as I am. I am reminded of something that happened when I first joined the club I am a member of. We were talking about various skills we possessed and I mentioned that I did not know anything about something in question. I do not recall what it was at this point. One of the guys said we will teach you. That is what has been going on since I joined. We all share freely of our skills and techniques with each other so that we all get better at what we enjoy. I believe that is overall the spirit of of this place and other than an occasional sniper that shows up wanting to ridicule another for a differing view you will likely find no end of helpful folks.

Suggestion

Hi,

I recently came back to the hobby also, this is the one set of advice i can give on your track plan (which could be fine or need to change depending on your taste).  Lance Mindheim has a "starter" layout with a single turnout and basic, basic instructions.  I would built it.  The reason is that you might find you really like different parts of the hobby, and you will want to practice skills on something that is easy to do in a month's time to see results.  
Then wait a month, read some material on operations (some people end up liking this the most).  Then look at your plan again. Then build something.

The other comment i have about your plan: I have never been good enough to get a curve on a grade working quite right near the minimum radius for my equipment.  Laying a good curve of track takes skill.....

-D

There are some fairly

There are some fairly straight forward ways to maintain a uniform grade on a curve.

Step one determine the percentage of grade you want. I will use 2% for an example as a maximum number.

The grade is calculated by dividing the rise by the run. This will not take into account easements but I will offer a way to do this based on the materials for construction. I would recommend either plywood cut to a radius and attached to a straight section or laminated strips to form the sections commonly called splines. Both of those methods can be found in more detail by using the search function.

Our radius will be 30 inches for this example and we will consider a 90 degree curve. To calculate the run we will take 30 the radius times 2 times 3.14 and have an answer of 188.4 for the distance of a circles circumference. We are only using 1/4 of the circle so we will need to divide 188.4 by 4 and have 47.1 inches for the run. 7/8 of an inch to keep things based on something we can measure with a ruler becomes .875. 875 divided by 47.1 is 1.85% of grade and under our 2% maximum.

We now know we can go from the beginning of our curve to the end of our curve and have a gain of 7/8ths of an inch. The easiest way to divide this further is to divide our 90 degree curve in half and have a rise of 7/16ths at the mid way point which is 45 degrees. Dividing it in half again results in it becoming an angle of 221/2 degrees and the 90 degree curve is now in 4 sections of equal length. You guessed it each section will be 7/32nds higher than the previous section. By having the supports positioned under the curved sections a uniform grade can be built rather well. Since we know that our run was 47.1 inches and we have divided that into 4 sections of identical length we know the distance along the curve is less than a foot and supports closer than that are not really needed.

Applying logic to the design function will allow easy construction and support of the road bed. In more complicated scenarios an inexpensive water level could be used to have drops in elevation from a known point so the grades can be kept uniform regardless of the curve and or change of radius.

The use of a water level and grades can likely be found on line.

Curves

I should have said something like this:  Curves on grades requires physical skill beyond calculations, and if your curves are near minimums, imperfections are an issue.  Practice a few and then run your trains on them.  The woodland scenics risers will be super useful.

I had a hard time with it at first as well, and wanted to pass that on.  The geometry is not so hard.

Have fun!

- D

" Curves on grades requires

   That's a good point. If there's room to make the curves a bit larger than the minimum it will allow so error without it causing as much problems. I generally try for the largest curves possible in the space then connect them with whatever track they require.....DaveB