Lenz Computer Interface

Lenz shows two available interfaces for computers.

The LI-USB:  http://www.lenzusa.com/1newsite1/LI-USB.html

The Li-USB-Ethernet:  http://www.lenzusa.com/1newsite1/Li-USB-Ethernet.html

I'm holding on to my XP computer for the train room as I'm still using the old LI-100F

Like Jack said

Often it is best to dedicate computers to a single, important job. Older computers can be had cheap and often it is better to match the computer to the software/hardware than to try to bring the software/hardware to a much newer computer.

XP is OK

XP is just fine to use in your train room to maintain your DCC system. The only problem is when you connect it to an internet source. It is VERY vulnerable to hackers since Microsoft has stopped updating the operating system and the anti virus software for it. So use it, just do not connect it to the internet !

Michael

Problem with XP

Latest Java Runs Fine on XP

It is true that you'll get dire warnings when you try to upgrade to the latest Java while using XP.  However, the latest Java WILL install over XP and runs just fine.  Many folks running JMRI have discovered this.  You may have to download and install it manually initially, but after that (in my experience), further updates are downloaded and installed just as they always were.  How long will this work?  No one really knows.  But on a global basis, XP is far from dead and is still much used.

(still clinging to XP for as long as possible)

"My conclusion from all this

    I see lots of laptops for less than $200 so shouldn't be that hard to find one just for model railroad use.Buy one less loco to pay for it.......DaveB 

Yep, exactly

I prefer to hedge my bets

True enough. But I prefer to hedge my bets.

The last thing I want to have happen is for DecoderPro on my lappie to suddenly no longer work just as I'm preparing to show the layout to a tour group. All the support guys will tell me if I come crying to them is, "we told you it wasn't supported, sorry" ...

Rather than see how close I can get to the fire without being singed, I prefer to be preemptive, especially when it's only the cost of a loco that's involved ($200-$300). Phoey, I have more locos than I need (who doesn't) and I could *sell* a couple of them to ensure the rest of my fleet is happily being programmed on hardware and software with a long future ahead of it yet.

Ubuntu

I have an old PC that I am going to install Ubuntu (Linux) on to try to get Decoder Pro working on. Should happen in the next week so I will post my results. Old machines are available next to nothing. Easy way to make a dedicated system and by easy I mean cheap. I have NO Linux experience so if I can do it anyone can.

At the other end, I don't think you can get a better programming system than an NCE PowerCab coupled with an NCE USB board attached to your computer. Can't comment on Lenz but this is what I have used and it worked flawlessly for me.

Which USB Interface Do You Have?

Which USB interface do you have? If you have the LI-USB you may have to update the firmware. After installing updating the firmware, delete and reinstall the driver. We have several Lenz users in the club running DecoderPro without any problems.

On the other hand, I am with Greg on running DecoderPro and PanelPro on a Linux distribution like Ubuntu, but it does take learning another OS.

You can run Linux from a USB

You can run Linux from a USB flash drive on a Windows-based PC.  In fact I'm typing this while using a distro called Porteus.  I often fire it up if I'm planning to watch some videos (i.e. the new Star Wars trailer ) because it uses up so little of the system resources that videos tend to play back more smoothly on my cheap laptop.

There's a free little program called Yumi that I used to burn the Linux ISO files to the USB (you can't just copy the file over from the file manager.)

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/

Once you've got the distro burned to the flash drive, you hold the appropriate 'F' key while the computer is booting up to get to the boot order menu.  This varies from computer to computer (mine is F12)  Then select the drive for the flash drive.  

Steve S

2 computer approach

Old computer, XP, older Decoder Pro hooked to layout, not connected to the internet.  As long as it handles layout duties other than decoder programming, upgrading isn't needed.

New computer, Windows or Mac updated regularly, Decoder Pro updated regularly, used as primary PC, and hooked to programming track (NCE Power Cab, etc., in my case) when needed.  Handles new decoders as they are added to the fleet, prints car routing if used, etc.

Overall, less hassle.

A Couple Options

I remember having problems with a friend's layout and his new (at the time) Win 7 x64 machine.  You might try the solution posted here - I think that's how I finally dealt with it.

You're absolutely right - Lenz has all but abandoned the DCC system market.  It's really a shame, because I was a Lenz guy for many years and always felt they were very well built systems.  Plus, their throttle bus was an open specification, which was very important to me in being able to tinker with it.  However, between being increasingly expensive, lacking full-featured wireless throttles (the CVP units are great, but don't support consisting, etc.), and having not been updated or upgraded in around a decade, even I finally gave up.

 I still use my system for testing and programming, and I have an older serial interface (LI101) that I keep around.  That plugs into a USB-> serial converter, that I use to connect to my workshop computer.  I figure the USB to serial converter is essentially disposable if the OS ever stops supporting it, but there will always be some supported converter out there.  The LI100 and LI101 are now hard to find, but I've also built a couple of this circuit, which is essentially an LI100 equivalent.  It works just fine.

With the new layout, I switched to NCE.  It, too, works flawlessly with the USB-> serial converter and JMRI.

As I understand it apple will

As I understand it apple will run decoder pro. Go to apple and forget about the entire buy a new operating system every time Microsoft releases it's next money pit. The only draw back is there are some programs not made for mac

....and forget about the

There isn't going to be a Windows 11.  They've announced that instead of coming out with a big new update in a few years and calling it Windows 11, they're just going to do a steady stream of small updates to Windows 10. 

And the fact that you pay considerably more for a Mac.  You can get a decent Wintel laptop for under $300.  The cheapest Mac laptop is $900.   Better to just use Linux to give new life to an old computer.

Steve S

Windows 10 is free...

Yes, Windows 10 will become the vessel through which Microsoft charges money for that steady stream of small updates... until the end of time as we know it. 

I can't agree with the Linux crowd more, but Linux is still not for everyone.

NDHolmes wrote: You're

NDHolmes wrote: You're absolutely right - Lenz has all but abandoned the DCC system market.  It's really a shame, because I was a Lenz guy for many years and always felt they were very well built systems.  Plus, their throttle bus was an open specification, which was very important to me in being able to tinker with it.  However, between being increasingly expensive, lacking full-featured wireless throttles

I think your comment is quite exaggerated. They have updated their system but perhaps not in areas you are interested in: Railcom, Keep Alives, ABC (Automated Braking Control), and the decoders are upgrade regularly.

Their Keep Alive (USP) was the first one as far as I remember and is the only one that lets the locomotive cross a section without any contact. http://lenzusa.com/1newsite1/USP.html 
/> http://www.digital-plus.de/media/USP-HD-1280.mp4

They are offering wireless control via their USB and Ethernet Interface and iPhone with Touchpad software.

I asked Lenz about a conventional wireless throttle when they had just announced their Ethernet interface. They told me they had decided to go this route as they thought the market was not large enough to justify the development of a traditional wireless throttle. Here in Germany other companies provide compatible wireless throttles for the Lenz system e.g. Massoth DIMAX Navigator. It allows consisting of 4 locomotve.

Regards, Volker

Windows 10 is free . . . Not for all

Well, not for all.  It's only free for those with Windows 7 or 8.1 on their computers.  Users for Vista, XP or any other flavor have to buy it.  But here's the catch:  your PC has to be able to support Windows 10.  Even if the PC meets the hardware requirements such as processor, video card, memory, etc., that doesn't mean that Windows 10 will install and run on your machine.  Go to the Microsoft site and read the details about it and you'll find that upgrading isn't so simple (or cheap) after all.

I also have other software that will not run under Windows 10, such as Visual Basic 6 and a few other applications.  Then there are the hardware peripherals to consider.  I've been burned before by Microsoft when upgrading operating systems, and will likely go to Linux before ever upgrading Windows again, at least on this train room PC.

Lenz

I think the Lenz USP is quite

I think the Lenz USP is quite different than other company's Keep Alives. If one needs it is every ones decision.

Lenz diversified in O-scale equipment like locomotives, freight cars, passenger cars, track system including turnouts, and even three HO-scale locomotives.

Looks like their main interest has shifted away from DCC or is devided between the different product lines. Before they followed the requests from the German market in the first place. And here the interest in wireless throttles started much later than in the USA. German model railroads are much more automated than in the USA. Railroads controlled by computer or operating with an automatic block system are two keywords. It is my point of view that these German preferences led to the development of Railcom, and ABC.

Europe and especially Germany are still Lenz' main markets.

It is likely that Lenz doesn't serve all American preferences but to say Lenz has all but abandoned its DCC system is not correct as I see it.

Regards, Volker

The effect is the same

USP also appears to pick up the DCC signal through blockages, like with their plastic wrap on the rails stunt. But when I last checked, the USP "keep it running without power" duration was a couple seconds at most.

In the latest keep alives I'm testing, I can take the unit off the track and it will keep running for 10+ seconds with sound. Where's Lenz's new-and-updated USP that does that? They did have a product that appeared to offer much longer keep-alive times, but they discontinued the product in 2013. Huh?

Sure, the technology used may be somewhat different and really clever, but at the end of the day, the reason I want to use this feature is the same. It keeps things running regardless of dirty track or dirty wheels or dead spots - and the new super-capacitor keep-alives that last for 10+ seconds (even on sound locos!) seem far more useful than a 1-2 sec USP decoder is.

I'd love to see Lenz take their innovations and really exploit them, but they seem somehow distracted and fail to really run with the great product ideas they get.

Agreeing with Joe

I have to agree with Joe on this.  I'm still a Lenz user, but if I were to buy a system today, it would be NCE.  I have felt somewhat abandoned by Lenz for a number of years now.

When I was studying the DCC systems Lenz was developing a wireless throttle, I believe the LH250.  It looked like the present LH90 with the big throttle knob.  I decided to go with Lenz based on the promise of that wireless throttle.  Within the year, Mr. Lenz abandoned the project, saying that to build a wireless throttle that could be certified in all the countries that he marketed to would price the throttle out of reach.  That was quite a blow to me.  Sure, he later came out with the XPA gizmo that allowed one to use a wireless phone for a throttle, but that just seemed like a clunky kludge to me.  I believe he eventually discontinued that.  They do presently offer the ability to use "smart" phones for throttles, but that doesn't appeal to me personally (I just love that big old knob).

Lenz hasn't come out with a new product that I've found useful for over 10 years now.  But then, as stated earlier, the USA isn't their prime market.

Linux is as easy to run as

Linux is as easy to run as any other OS. I have a couple friends i put on it specifically because they are technical newbs, and they will have a lot less trouble with Linux.

JC Shall wrote: Within the

JC Shall wrote: Within the year, Mr. Lenz abandoned the project, saying that to build a wireless throttle that could be certified in all the countries that he marketed to would price the throttle out of reach.

Because of these troubles Lenz has tried to use standards with wireless throttles that allowed worldwide use without much regulatory troubles. First was the DECT telefon standard and now WiFi.

When I look at the American wireless throttles there are not many I would be allowed to use in Germany. Most manufacturers use frequencies not cleared for hobby use in Europe. And even if they use 2.4 GHz they cannot export without adjusting special aspects of the transmitting power and a new certification. I am hoping for RailPro to do just that. Time will tell.

And that is required in both directions.

Lenz has done quite a lot in the DCC sector in the last years but likely not much you would like to see in the USA. But model railroad operations in the USA and Germany are very different with different DCC needs.

Joe is correct, they are distracted by reviving O-scale in Germany.

Regards, Volker