You're probably right;

You're probably right; however, with a modeler's "artistic license" (especially in freelance) a modeler might want to add retaining walls just because they like the way that they look.  I suspect that is why there are more on model railroads than in actual use.   Although these retaining walls aren't in a yard there are plenty that exist elsewhere.

What era?

Here is a Pennsy wall. I just read a Rutland book last night. I'll send a photo of that.

http://jjakucyk.com/transit/prr/large-12.html

I Stand Corrected

To All: This subject fits in the "There is a Prototype for Everything" category Thanks for the photos and comments.

           I guess I was not at the right place and time to see these walls.  Yours, Elvin Howland/E. St. Louis Rail

           Group Layout..

Locust Point Yard CSX Baltimore

Retaining walls along the North side of the yard, especially towards the West end. Rights below the Institute for the Blind. I'd show you a picture but I don't seem to have any showing the wall. 

Another great shot

Thanks for posting those great examples, Rick.  I have a scene in my plan that needs the exact configuration as your seventh photo.  I googled using that shot and found another facing the opposite direction.  

I'll add

that having retaining walls allow the modeler to fit everything in they feel needs to be to get the job done.  Limited amount of space but you need a grade between tracks, for example.  Among other things it's a nice way to have some scenic variety.  Also I like the way my night trains light them up on a curve, with the light filtered amongst tree branches.  That's eerily prototypical, in my book!  Always something spooky about a loco's headlight from around a corner...the rumble, the illumination, the suspense.  I'm thinking to when I went night catfishing and had to occasionally walk some track in the dark to get to a good spot.  But then I'm a guy who also likes to put my eye level to my layout's track.

Real cost

While retaining walls are a fact of life, the real railroads probably used them only when necessary and the cost of the land and a cut were too expensive. This usually occurs in the urban areas. I belong to a club and our main scenery maker loves retaining walls. They are necessary on a model RR where a lot of track is close to each other or where different track elevations or structures are close to each other. This happens especially where land is at a premium. However out in the country when the track goes through a cut it would be blasted rock or a large gently  sloping cut . Here in New England rock is the modelers friend. A nice rock cut looks much more realistic in country scene than a retaining wall. IMHO

                                                                                   Ray Schofield

Abuse of walls

Old article

https://modelrailroading.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/modeling-cliche-3-abuse-of-retaining-walls/

These are taken from a single line in PA...

Elvin,

These photos are all taken on the former Lehigh Valley line that runs through the Lehigh Gorge at Jim Thorpe.  I've chosen these pics because they illustrate the variety of retaining walls out there, sometimes in the same place....

The first example shows the handiwork of Italian immigrants who were so talented they could cut stone to fit with no mortar needed.  These same craftsman did stonework on the Lehigh Canal. 

Next up, we have your garden variety poured concrete wall, installed to keep the mud/stones from washing over the tracks.  Note the use of old rail as rebar inside!

My last example is another curved beauty, but this time show how the wall was installed to maintain grade, not fight erosion.

Hope this helps your imagination!

-bill

Retaining Walls

Ray you are correct, railroads only use them when absolutely necessary and they are no taller than necessary.  From an engineering standpoint retaining walls have one of the highest failure rates of any type of structure. While the failure is not catastrophic, it is usually the slow creep of time that causes them to slowly overturn.

Retaining walls are used when the construction does not allow for the minimum standard side slope of the cut or fill to daylight within the right of way, usually 3:1. 

As modelers we do tend to abuse the use of retaining walls because we attempt to put as much as we can in a limited space. 

Over use of retaining walls

Well no one has said it, but the real reason modelers use so many retaining walls is too much track. As dehanley almost said. Having said that I really admire modelers that exercise self control and limit putting the proverbial 10# of (     ) in a 5# bag. The bigger layouts especially should be able to model more prototypical landscapes.. Having said that my new layout will be guilty of the old spaghetti bowl mistake. The reason "greed". I want it all, but in doing so I will sacrifice those beautiful New England scenes that we all  love. A modeler who has really avoided that and in a moderate space is Jim Dufour on his B & M Cheshire branch layout. There is a video on Trainmasters of Jim's beautiful layout. 

                                                                                                Ray 

Retaining wall

   Along the lakefront line of the NSSR is a retaining wall that runs for about 3/4 of a mile. With ony 100' or so it allows the track to follow the lakeshore. Most of this wall is over 100 years old and holds up a former brewery, commercial buildings and a park. There is also a newer wall with tile murals that holds up another park and has I-35 on the other side. Plus a tunnel going under a portion of the park. All of this in less than 2 miles. Over use? I don't think so.

In Milwaukee for example...

A scan from Kalmbach, Milwaukee Road In It's Hometown, Jim Scribbins, a Wallace Abbey shot looking south toward the Schlitz complex and Pabst elevator:

[attach:fileid=208658_28_7xfLEY54+7+VN6CP/9k=]

One from Morning Sun Books, The Milwaukee Road In Color,Volume 2 The City of Milwaukee, Jeffery Koeller, a J.P. Shuman photo departing Milwaukee depot:

Also from the above mentioned book, a 1971 photo by Bob Wilt:

Opportunities abound for realistic use of retaining walls especially if one is modeling an urban area.

 "Over use? I don't think

It depends on the area one is modeling but in general the percentage of retaining walls to non retaining wall right of way is much higher on toy train layouts than it is on real railroads. We've all seen plenty of wedding cake designs over the years.....DaveB 

wedding cake?

Take a look at the Wallace Abbey photo in the post above.  Some ought to tell them are not being prototypical!

Modeling retaining walls

A couple ideas I have used -

A timber and piling wall on a previous layout:

And, a stone retaining wall carved out of balsa.  This was actually one of my very first projects as a kid.  I followed methods of roughening up the surface, cutting the joints, wire brushing, and painting as described in the December 1959 issue of Model Trains.  How many of you modelers remember that Mag?  Except for resizing and painting, it is original from my first layout back then.  Shown here on one of many areas under construction:

"Take a look at the Wallace

    No, they are within the .001% of real railroad mileage that has retaining walls :> ) ......DaveB 

Yup

I see layouts, and especially modules, with retaining walls nearly everywhere.  The builders often like to cite photos showing specific locales to justify having an entire layout based on the same oddball situation.

RTW. . .

Paul,  my Google photo search

Paul,  my Google photo search didn't provide any verbiage on where the shots were taken - you're probably right!

North of Seattle

As part of my recent vacation (an Alaskan cruise out of Seattle), I rode the train from Vancouver to Seattle and back, and there are what seems like endless retaining walls along that stretch, as you have ocean on one side (literally feet away from the tracks), and hills on the other.  It is a beautiful, scenic ride that I would do again, but perhaps extend it to Portland or beyond.  I was sure I took pictures of it, but I can't seem to find them now.

In addition to urban scenes

In addition to urban scenes one also needs to consider the part of the country and the time period the line was originally built, as well as the geology in the area. If one is modeling the eastern US there will likely be more retaining walls as the steep hills in the area coupled with lots of erosion would make them very helpful. Many times the railroads were traveling along the side of a hill instead of through one and would cut away enough of a hill to get room for the line and the retaining wall would stabilize the debris from the cut so it could be used as back fill and the road bed built on top. In essence you have 1/2 of a cut and the debris does not need to be hauled away.

In the early part of the 20th century and the later part of the 19th century labor was cheap but earth moving was not as economical as it is today due to advances in equipment. I also expect that at the time the railroads thought they would be there forever as they had no competition besides other railroads. In WV and Pennsylvania areas I am familiar with there were lots of retaining walls built both in towns and in rural environments, in many cases the retaining walls are still there but the tracks are long gone.

The two photos here show the retaining walls that were built to elevate a track to the largest passenger station in WV on the B&O. There were tracks on both sides of the elevated track. To the right was a siding that served several industries. To the left was the Pennsy panhandle line and the tracks to the Pennsy freight and passenger station. Lots of these types of walls were all over the area and continued into more rural areas around the town, in some places timbers instead of stone were used.

Retaining walls were very frequent in this area.

Now the railroads and the businesses are mostly a distant memory.

Retaining walls are very

Retaining walls are very common and prototypical in the northeast...as I am sure they are elsewhere as well. I try to Keep in mind modelers including myself are looking to get the most out of plywood real estate, slapping up a retaining wall may not seem practical in some locations as some do it, but it allows them to do what it is they want to do..and thats the bottom line,  its Your railroad if you don't like them don't use them if you like them or it helps to use them put em up and get the trains running.

Many of these. . .

 . . .retaining walls between Vancouver, B.C., and Seattle are new, built relatively recently or at least within the past 10-15 years or so. Of course, some are older.

As more homes are built atop the bluffs and hills to gain a view of Puget Sound, more runoff occurs, making the hillsides less stable and more prone to mudslides and tree falls. There's been a concerted effort in the past few years to designing and installing retaining walls which will hold back the mud. The hope is to reduce service interruptions.