Jordan Spreader

Below are a couple prototype and model pics, the latter shot with the major components just resting in place, awaiting reassembly:

Another pair of shots of the 9500 in its natural environs.  The prototype has been a fixture of Atlantic, Iowa for 15+ years, so I'm looking forward to finally seeing the completed model in place here on South Siding.

Looks like I need more dandelions! 

Before work on the model can begin, though, I'll need to remove a few components, relocate the diesel fuel tank, and replace the headlight.  Problem is, I've never modified a brass model before.  Can anyone offer any tips on that work?  Is anything special needed to deal with the factory solder joints, or will a standard iron take care of them?

My plan is to outline the grit blasting, modifications, and other remaining work here.  I hope you'll check back as progress is made. 

Nice project

Looks like a great project, Joe. Such a unique model. It’ll add an extra special feel to Atlantic. 

Your question about how to modify brass is interesting. I know brass assembly requires different solder melting points so as not to have components already soldered drop off. But how does one know which joints used which type of solder? I’ll be interested to see what the brass experts on this forum say.

Bold project, Joe!

Me too, Scott. It's a lot easier building up with brass and different solders than the other way arround.

However, a resistance soldering unit may very likely be just what Joe needs, and it may be what the OMI craftsmen used to assemble the model. That would obviate the need for sleuthing out the different temperatures.

I'm not an expert in brass locomotives

but I have disassembled and repaired brass musical instruments from piccolos to tubas. (I did a contrabass sarrousophone once).

The best tool for the job is a small butane hand torch like the Bernzomatic ST2200. Don't get one of those cheap kitchen jobs, they are not adjustable.

Work on a surface that doesn't mind molten solder, hot metal parts and bare flame. I use a ceramic tile left over from a bathroom remodel.

Learn by practicing on scrap brass. Once you learn to solder a short square tube in the right place on a sheet of brass, you are good to go.

Desoldering with a torch: things to remember

• The hottest area is near the tip of the flame. This is hot enough to burn lead based solder, so don't leave the flame on melted solder for long. I usually brush the work with the flame rather than holding it steady.
• If the work has a mix of hard (silver/tin braze) solder and lead solder, you can tell the difference by scratching the solder. Lead based will be a shiny silver, the braze will be more brass color.
• You probably won't need to desolder a hard solder, since that will be mostly used for structure, not detail. If you do, you are probably better off cutting the joint. (If you must, first remove all of the soft soldered parts. Use the tip of the flame, and a thin wooden wedge to spread the join as it lets go. Whether this works will depend on the kind of hard solder used in the first place. )
• Set the model on a stable surface, turned so the part you are removing can just drop off when the solder melts. If you use a vice, put wooden jaws on it.
• For desoldering, heat the part, not the body. It should drop free before you see any molten solder, unless the part is pretty big. If you see molten solder, something else (like a hidden pin) is holding the part in place. (Exception, very tiny parts may be held by surface tension of the molten solder-- you will see them move when the solder has melted. Pick them off with tweezers.)
• Everything will be too hot to touch at this point. Let the body cool down before removing the next part. You can speed the cooling with a damp cloth, but don't get carried away. You can warp brass by cooling part of it too fast.
• If parts to be removed are near parts you don't want to disturb, you should clamp the keepers on. (See below.) You can also make a "heat dam" by wrapping a strip of damp (not soaking) cloth or sponge around the body between the parts.

Soldering with a torch:

• Clean both the base of the part and the location thoroughly. You should remove as much old solder as you can. (You can remove solder by melting it and wirebrushing the part. You can also shake molten solder off of things. I often tap the part on the workbench to get excess off. Scrape the last of the cold solder off with a steel scraper.)
• Acid flux is appropriate for soldering brass. Put the flux only where you want solder to stick, on the body and part. There is a product called Tix anti-flux that will prevent solder from sticking to something. You apply flux where you want the solder, warm it up, then paint anti-flux around the joint. That's really only necessary when soldering silver plate, though. Excess solder on brass can be scraped off before painting or buffing.
• Tin the attachment surface of the detail part. Apply flux, then heat the part and apply solder. Finally shake most of the solder off, so the solder is like paint. Apply flux again.
• Turn the body so gravity holds the part where you want it to be. Then set a "third hand" to hold the part in place, preferably by weight rather than clamping the part. You can also wire a part in place using (this is important) brass wire. Don't tighten the wire very tight-- the brass body is going to expand when it is heated, and tight wire (or steel) will leave marks. As a third option, light spring clamps are handy.
• If the part is small, the solder left by the tinning step is probably enough. In that case, you "sweat" the part on by heating both the body and part. You will see a thin line of silver appear at the joint when you are finished. Let everything cool for a minute without disturbing the work.
• If the part is large, or does not fit well, you will need to add solder. Heat body and part and touch thin wire solder to the joint (I use a short piece of brass tube to guide the solder*). Don't let the flame hit the solder, it will just cut it off. Once the solder is flowing, drag it along as much of the joint as you can reach. If solder starts to spread along the body, you  are done. Let it cool. 

* my solder guide:

Cleaning excess solder.

There will be excess solder. If you try to paint over it, it will show.  The best way to remove it is with a steel bladed scraper. Micromark sells some, or you can ask your dentist for any broken tools. (Dentist tools are double ended, so broken ones are still fine.) Scrape with firm strokes along the surface, don't dig. The difference in hardness between brass and solder makes this easier than you might think. You should be left with scratches no worse than on the rest of the model. A buffing wheel on a Dremel will take them right off.

Hard soldering

This is pretty much the same, except with different solder, different flux, and a hotter flame. And you do heat the solder. (The brass may begin to glow when it is hot enough.) Make certain any soft solder is removed first. Ace hardware sells a silver solder kit if you want to try this.

About the relative heating characteristics of different sized parts

Big things take longer to heat to soldering temperature than small things. Both parts must be at soldering temperature to make a sound joint. Very small parts may be damaged by excess heat. Keep all of this in mind when soldering. In general, I heat the part for a while, then apply heat only to the body. A related principle is that when you heat the body, you are heating the whole thing, and heat travels through brass at a steady rate. So your working time is limited by how far it is from where you are working to the nearest thing that will be damaged or loosened by excess heat. You can gain some time with a damp cloth or a clamp on heat sink. Always start with the whole body cold-- you can speed cooling with a damp cloth, but not before the solder sets.

Disclamer

​As I said at the beginning, my experience is with musical instruments more than models. Also, it's been 40 years since I was doing this every day, but I think I've covered all of the basics. Feel free to correct me if you know a better way or I've left anything out.

pqe

A Resistance Soldering unit is

what most people use who do a lot of this work.  I'm not sure it is worth the expense if you plan to do just this one project.  I would suggest to us a high temp iron because you want to get a lot of heat on the piece that is to be removed before it has a chance to spread to other parts.  A low wattage iron will take too long to heat your part and by then everything is at the same temp and all the pieces start falling off.   Damp cotton balls will protect parts you do not want to come loose.  Hemostats and other clamps will work as a heat sink in some places too.  Have your tweezers in the other hand ready to pull on the part.  Putting the part back on might be a little harder as far as containing the heat where you want it.  There's no reason why you couldn't use super glue or epoxy here. 

This is a cool addition to your layout.  If you need some MV lenses, try Eugene Toy And Hobby in Eugene OR.  They still have a pretty good inventory.  MV lenses are getting harder to find. Best wishes.

So if  it has been there for

So if  it has been there for 15 years. I take it not much snow falls there?  Or has it been misplaced all this time. Very nice looking   well detailed model

Regards Phil

Thank you

Pelsea and Michael, thank you both very much for your tips!  Greatly appreciated.

Thanks Phil.  I should have been more clear.  It's been based in Atlantic for at least 15 years, but it makes its way out when needed, then returns home.  In fact, I saw it pulled from Atlantic and moved east during only my second chase of the IAIS in 2000.  I know it's been moved to Council Bluffs for work before during the warmer months, and I believe Jordan Spreaders are also used for ditch work during summer MOW season.  These moves aren't frequent, but I plan to occasionally take advantage and duplicate them during layout operating sessions.

Update

I thought I'd post a quick update regarding some progress I managed to make Saturday.  I should note that I almost never work with brass, and since I only had a few details to remove from this model, plus a diesel fuel tank to relocate and a headlight to replace, I decided to see if I could remove the parts with the tools I had on hand.

It's amazing what possibilities opened up when I got past my fear of brass.  The diesel fuel tank was actually held on with two screws, and the associated generator was just a press-fit into a couple slots in the lower deck.  The headlight, horn, and generator stack all popped out with a little wiggling, leaving only a toolbox and barrel soldered to the upper deck.  Both popped off easily by just working a sharp screwdriver blade underneath and heating the solder with my 40w iron.

Next up:  Grit blasting, then reassembly.

I found a prototype photo of the 9500 at  http://www.iaisrailfans.org/gallery/IAIS-9500/IAIS_9500_altoona_ia_dec_1994_011_1920x2880 today showing evidence that it was indeed used for that purpose.

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You can certainly use Epoxy to affix what parts you want to put back on, if soldering is not your forte.

Epoxy

Thanks Benny.  I've been told that ACC is an option as well?  Given the small number of items I have to reattach and how sheltered many of them will be on the lower deck, as well as the fact that I have ACC on hand, I was planning to go that route, but I'll certainly keep epoxy in mind as a Plan B.

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Epxoy is a commonly used item in fixing brass where people don;t want to solder.

One of the things people do when they strip Brass is put them in chemical baths - and then all the parts fall off that were epoxied on!

Thanks

Thanks Benny.

I'm not sure how the original owner painted this, but owner #2 tried stripping it - once in 91% isopropyl alcohol and once in something else - and gave up.  Charlie Duckworth was kind enough to loan me his grit blaster, so I'm going to give that a try as soon as the weather warms up enough to do so outside.

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This site was mentioned in this months DCC tips, you'd enjoy it for it's tips on working in Brass

http://markschutzer.com/

http://markschutzer.com/Cab_Forward/Cab_forward_index.htm

He uses Jasco, which is a nasty solvent that takes off paint and epoxy alike.

Done!

I finally finished work on IAIS 9500, the railroad's ex-RI Jordan Spreader.  I'm the third owner of the OMI model that served as the core of this project.  Below are a few "before" pics from owner #2, Tom McGovern, after he attempted to strip the paint applied by owner #1.  Thanks again Tom for selling this to me!  The project was a blast.

Thanks to Charlie Duckworth's generosity, I was able to use his grit blaster to further strip this.  I then unsoldered the barrel and toolbox toward the rear of the upper deck, the generator at the rear of the lower platform, and the headlight and horn from the cab roof.  I also unscrewed the diesel fuel tank on the lower deck, relocating it to the rear.  The "arm" and chain on each wing were removed, since the same had been done to the prototype.

Below are a few pics of the prototype and the completed model.

IAIS 9500 at Atlantic, Iowa, May 27, 2006:

Front view of completed model at Council Bluffs.  New horn, headlight, cab heater, and associated vent pipe were from the scrap box

Side view.  Cribbing was cut to various sizes from Campbell ties to match prototype pics and weathered with Pan Pastels.  Box for cribbing, hiding behind the wing on the lower deck, just ahead of the diesel fuel tank, was scratchbuilt from styrene and filled with more tie scraps.  The prototype 9500 had been painted yellow when it arrived on the IAIS as RI 95319, and that yellow is visible through various scrapes and scratches.  The trucks are original OMI equipment and don't match the prototype 9500, but in attempting to replace them, I discovered that the larger correct trucks wouldn't swing sufficiently to allow this model to operate.

Closeup of 9500's cab.  Lettering is from a Microscale alphabet set, and the stripes are faded with oils.  The prototype was originally numbered IAIS 95000, but was later renumbered 9500 to fit in the 8000- and 9000-series numbers of the rest of the IAIS MOW roster.  The third "0" can once again be seen through the worn red patch. 

Prototype and model views of the 9500 tied down on Atlantic's South Siding, which the prototype has called home for the last 15+ years when not attending to plowing or ditching duties.

Overhead view showing the cribbing and various lengths of hydraulic hose, cut to size and arranged according to prototype pics of the 9500's deck.  Conveniently, the locations where the cribbing was discarded happen to correspond with the holes that were left in the deck by my removal of the original OMI details, so it did a fine job of covering my tracks.

Former IAIS employee Jason Klocke stopped for a visit last week.  Jason was part of a crew that used the 9500 for ditching when he was at the IAIS, so it was fun getting his input on this project.  He told me that, due to the 9500's aging hydraulics, the cribbing was necessary to hold the "wings" open while ditching.  

I'm not sure what the little box is behind the cab on the right side of the upper deck, but I modeled it with a Kadee coupler box, with various other details added from styrene stock and a Cannon EMD fuel tank detail set. 

Prototype at Atlantic, May 11, 2013:

My attempt thus far to duplicate the previous scene.  The prototype is an icon of the IAIS in Atlantic, so I'm grateful to finally be able to replicate it.  

Many thanks to Harry Bilger for providing me with the 9500's rerailing frogs! 

Not done.

Well Done!!!!!!

Steve

Good job Joe!

Joe that is fantastic

Really beautiful model.

Does anyone know if there are any kits or even ready to run models of one of those in HO scale, or is brass the only way to go other than scratch building one?

Jordan Spreader modeling

Thank you all very much!

Rob, Walthers made a Jordan Spreader kit that's still widely available secondhand, but it's based on a different style prototype with a much larger cab.  My original plan was to kitbash one to model the 9500, scratchbuilding the cab, but circumstances changed that.

OMI actually imported a model of RI 95319, the very Jordan Spreader that became the IAIS 9500.  However, it's extremely rare and isn't accurate for the 9500 as it stood in my May 2005 era, and when it IS available, it typically sells for close to $500.  Because the model I bought had been disassembled and was only partially stripped, I only paid a small fraction of that.

Model turned out great

Joe

Nice work on the Jordan spreader, weathering is perfect - not over done.  Looks good sitting on the siding.

Charlie Duckworth 

Nice job!

That's outstanding.  My wife was in here and I was scrolling between prototype and model and she was very impressed.  She's wondering why I don't have one...

If one would only drive by here in Iowa City, maybe I could convince the CFO of the Meramec Scenic that with the addition of an anachronistic ES-44 in IAIS motif on our tracks we could use an IAIS Jordan, and while we're at it let's hire Joe Atkinson to paint and weather it.

Yeah, that'll happen!

Anyways, great job, and it's a great inspiration!

That spreader looks great,

That spreader looks great, Joe! very realistic and Atlantic is a good spot to leave it not only since the prototype stored it there but also as a good place for all to admire your work.

OT a bit but Jason ran a spreader? Now that's something I never attempted and didn't even try to ride one. I figured that's something I would leave to the experts. The railroad must have had great confidence in his abilities to operate it...probably a quick learner. I also couldn't figure out why the cribbing pieces on board other than left overs or prospective wedges for re-railing the thing. You learn something new every day.

BTW, I remember these things being pretty heavy is the model? Maybe Jeff can confirm whether heavy or not?

Thanks, for sharing.

Barry 

Sweet!

Well done Joe! That will be a real eye catcher for every visitor that has the opportunity to see your layout. 

I also like the dandelions on your layout. Don't know if I've ever seen that before! Or maybe I have, and just wasn't paying close enough attention.

Thanks Joe

Since I am freelancing I will look for one second hand and then give it the usual rebuild. It would not have to be a model as specific as yours does. I do not think it would be worth it to me to spend 500 dollars for one when there are so many other uses the money could be spent on. Thanks for the heads up I guess I'll just watch for one and pick it up when I find one at a decent price.

Unique and very cool

What a neat thing to add to your Atlantic scene, Joe. Very, very nice. 

I bet you feel Atlantic just feels right now, correct?