Nothing wrong

Moving backwards...

Drop down menus appeared so we didn't have to click on a link to go to a page with more links to click.  Accommodating mobile devices by going backwards..well that's not progress or innovation it's catering to specific users and a step back to the old way of doing things.  As the web moves to be more mobile friendly is it going to become increasingly computer unfriendly?  Sure seems like it.

This is a concern I had when the mobile movement began at MRH.  I think I was assured back then that implementing mobile friendly features would not result in lost functionality for the many of us who do not use touch screens to surf the web.

It sounds like increased functionality for tablets will mean decreased functionality for computers.

Time will tell...

Yes and no

Maybe...

I still think the majority of 'actual modelers' are still using computers.  I'm sure there are lots reading with mobile devices but are they modeling anything or just reading?  Advertisers do not sell many products to the 'just reading crowd".  Just saying...

As I consider buying a new laptop because I need something more portable than the new tower system I bought last year, something that is not crippled by it's goofy touch screen. lack of memory, processing power, connectivity, etc.  Something that doesn't require me to squint or find my glasses because the screen is the size of a dinner napkin; I have to wonder...as my eyesight degrades with age and I struggle to only touch one of those little icons with my rather large fingers, I doubt, I really do.  When the age of majority in the hobby switches from 50+ to 18-30, I'll start believing that most modelers are using touch devices, but that'll never happen.

My son has a surface.  He solved any touch screen issues he had with a cool little invention called a mouse!

I'm with Kevin

I worry, too, about how my experience will be affected by catering to the mobile device. Needless to say here, I have very little value in the mobile device. (And I have been using computers for 50+ years). Hovering provided the much useful "tooltip" capability to aid as a tutoring device. Losing the hover function makes the novice navigation more of a challenge.

Aside from the mobile device problem comes touch screen functionality - one ATM I use frequently requires I "punch" near breaking the glass to function. Touch screen devices, for the most part, will fail early in life.

touch and hold

I can touch and hold and see the drop-down menu fine, but if I try to slide my finger down to TMTV or even tap it with my other hand it doesn't work.  I have to get there directly by typing in the url or similar.  

randy

In my experience ...

Ah yes, that would be the problem

Ah yes, that would be the problem. The solution is to make a hover still do what it does, but make a tap take you to a screen that lists the options as links. That's what we'll be doing next here soon, probably in Jan.

That way the computer guys will never know any different, but the mobile device guys will also be able to navigate things as well.

Trends toward mobile

Here's the stats for the MRH website ...
Desktop ........... 70.88%
Tablets ........... 17.25%
Mobile ............ 11.88%

Total non-desktop website visits = 29.14%

New visitor sessions ...
Desktop ........... 37.16%
Tablets ........... 27.53%
Mobile ............ 42.93%

Total non-desktop new visitor sessions = 70.46%

Only 3 out of 10 new visitors view the MRH website on a desktop.

If this trend continues, eventually, desktop visits will become the minority. It's not happened yet, and it's anyone's guess how fast this transition will occur, but there is a definite trend right now. Could the current trend change? Certainly, but it's very hard to drag that 21" monitor around with you when you're on the go. On the other hand, when you're bored and standing in line, doing a quick peak at a web post or an email is pretty easy to do - with the end result being you actually can spend more hours on the web with a mobile device than you do sitting still in front of a desktop (or laptop) screen.

Hover? Good riddance.

I  am married to a blind woman and therefore know many, many blind computer users. The blind community was one of the first to embrace computing and the internet, because it opened up the world in a way never possible via radio and books on tape services. At least it did in the days of DOS and HTML 1.0. Every pop-up and bit of dancing baloney is an obstacle to access, because the screen reading software can't be updated as fast as the folks at Microsoft and Adobe invent new widgets. Hover is one of the biggest roadblocks. The patch Joe is planning is recommended for all sites.

Admittedly there aren't a lot of blind model railroaders, but many of my acquaintances love trains and like to read about them. My wife will let me buy any loco I want, as long as it has good sound.

pqe

As long as we are bashing the interface,

I note that the cursor placement after return began working properly over the holiday. It's good on both iPad and Mac.

Thank you.

pqe

Desktop etc.

I haven't used a desktop computer at home in years. I've used my laptop exclusively until the smartphone. I rarely use the smartphone for internet browsing at home because the screen is just too small.  Now that I have the tablet, I think the laptop is going to sit unused next to the desktop for the most part.  The tablet is really convenient, and the screen is huge.  

Randy

3 out of ten

ok.so roughly 30 percent of NEW visitors to the site use a mobile device. i also visit from my phone during down time at work (don't tell the boss) and when im away from my desktop when the new issue releases ( travel for work)  I'll download it to my phone to read away from home, but as soon as i return home i download it to my desktop.

i understand that new visitors are an important group but so are those of us that have been here since issue 1 volume 1.

i don't like laptops. i don't need to be so connected that i have to take my computer with me everywhere. if it wasn't for work i wouldn't even carry a cell phone and i plan on sticking with a desktop till they stop making them . 

i'm not saying I'll leave MRH if things change on the website. i expect things to change from time to time.I'll still download and read every month even though i may grumble about extra steps to do so. but a evolution of product is the norm in our world and always has been. part of this is reflected in this hobby. was diesel not an advance over steam? how is everyone going to react when lines other than NS start working with battery powered ( NS # 999) locos ? would any of us really buy a new car with an 8 track player? my point is that at one time there was opposition to all of these things because they were new and different but we all eventually adapted and now we have efficient diesels and cars with built in WiFi and hard drives so you can carry all your music with you. change happens and sometimes it seems like it may be a step backwards but it ill move forward whether we notice or not. when i found this hobby i was in a small town in south east Texas with no hobby shop. i moved to a town in Mississippi with one hobby shop that closed about a year later. so then model railroading was a lot of effort. not just to get supplies in the mail but also to get information which at the time was only print. fast forward 30 years and now i can order stuff online and have it in 2 days even though i now live no more that 20 minutes away from the closest "train" store and have a general hobby store literally around the corner from me that carries paints and scenery supplies. information is available now with just a few clicks of a mouse. years ago i could not have imagined it would be this easy to be a model railroader. 

i find it hard to believe that the legendary figures of this hobby would still be doing things the way they did in the days before static grass and ground foam. thi entire hobby is based on evolving. not just our methods but our tech. do you think the anybody before 64 could have imagined a system like DCC. ASTRAC was a gimmick when it came out and many balked at it then but now the evolution of that basic system is DCC which is pretty much common place. of course there are still DC holdouts but you get my point.

someone much wiser than me once said that if you look back at last week or last month noting ever changes. but look back at a decade or more and you'll see that in reality that nothing ever stays the same.

How can you tell ...

... that the "new users" viewing on mobile devices, are not really "old users" with a new mobile device?

You can't but visits matter a lot

You can't, but in matter of fact, what does it matter WHO it is? The point is the total number of visits is shifting away from desktop as a device - even it's ALL old users. The devices that are being used are changing, and we need to make sure we aren't blindsighted by not accommodating this shift trend.

Status quo and sticking your head in the sand is what the old school businesses have been doing, but we prefer not to have just been a one trick pony. See these laurels? They can get all too comfortable - and in today's world, that's a recipe for waking up one morning and finding you've become irrelevant.

P.S. I do know anecdotally that caring about mobile matters. I've had younger modelers come up to me at shows and thank me for working to become more mobile-friendly. So I know it matters to them - and for all the hand-wringing over how to get the younger folks more interested in the hobby, at least MRH is trying to do something about that by caring about how to become more mobile-friendly.

"Here's the stats for the MRH

"Here's the stats for the MRH website ...
Desktop ........... 70.88%
Tablets ........... 17.25%
Mobile ............ 11.88%

Total non-desktop website visits = 29.14%

New visitor sessions ...
Desktop ........... 37.16%
Tablets ........... 27.53%
Mobile ............ 42.93%

"

OK, I get that the NEW visits are weighted to mobile devices, but it still looks as if the majority of returning viewers might still favor the good ol desktop. (or am I reading your chart poorly?)

I think we all understand (and agree) that there needs to be a mobile version too.

Indeed we do...

Of course, just never at the expense of usability for non mobile users.

Typed on my large and powerful HP Envy and viewed on 42 glorious diagonal inches of HD opulence

It's called responsive design

It's called responsive web design, and absolutely, that's the goal. With responsive design, the browser knows the device and screen that it's on, and it actually displays a different version of the website optimized for the screen size and device.

Everybody wins this way.

Perfect...

Sounds perfect.

I give up

By the time the web site is rendered for newer devices to the extent that I would no longer like it, I will have been buried for a few years at my age. So why bother commenting?

P.S. on "I give up"

My desktop is my laptop - fully featured. Done so such that I can demonstrate to clients that which is on my main computer.

Huh?

What? We just recently improved the editor so it now works on mobile devices, and also added several image features in the editor to make it easy to post images from those devices - including things like a new rotate feature.

We're now going to improve the "hover" problem so tap also give the mobile guys what they need.

It's not completely savvy responsive reformatting (yet), but I fail to see how these improvements have made this site worse to use on a desktop/laptop.

In the meantime, these improvements make a huge difference on mobile devices - and I should know since my main device(s) for interacting with this site when I'm not at my desk (at least half the time) is with my iPad and my iPhone.

I told you we're most interested in improving functionality for everyone, so why the nasty response?

My apology, Joe

It was not intended to be nasty - the natural progression of accommodating mobile devices does have the threat of making my having a less desirable experience possible. It is not so much the hovering but the touch screen accommodations.

Excuse me, please, for causing you any grief. It is not so personal or specific to this web site, but to the use of "smart" mobile devices that is the issue. Perhaps some enjoy browsing here while standing in line or eating their lunch or traveling on a commuter train or similar situation, but I find mobile devices for me to be not much more than a "game boy".

Sort of fix...

I've been using it for a few days now, and I have developed a sort-of technique. I can put my finger on the "Goodies" tab to get the drop-down menu, then take another finger and hit the TrainMasters link. It takes me a few tries to get it, but it does eventually work. I still wind up on the "Community" page on every failed attempt for some reason.  

I found another glitch last night. When making a post, I can't get my cursor to move from the "Subject" area down to the body of the post. Had to give up and drag out my laptop, which now seems like a boat anchor in comparison!  

Randy