10 by 10 ?

Hi Verne, I've built a few layouts in a spare bedroom over the years, from O scale down to N scale. The room is about 9.5 by 15.5 so a bit larger than your 10 by 10 but still pretty comparable. HOn3 should be great in there as long as you don't require long mainline runs. For  my O layout I used wooden bench work with angle braces but my latest N layout is sitting on metal shelf brackets which I've found are working out very well. No legs or braces under the layout give a nice open feel to the room.  Do you have a preliminary track plan or design concept yet? ....DaveB

No plan yet

Still in preliminary planning, Dave...but I strongly favor 'around the room' over a spaghetti bowl with enough depth to require access panels to reach everything. My On30 layout is built on the same basic shelving and brackets that supported my N scale layout previously. I am leaning towards perhaps an around the room loop with a branch climbing to a small town and coal mine. I want at least one side of the room to be killer scenery, perhaps Cascade Creek or Lobato Trestle, or a freelance equivalent.

My other option is to re-create a local hub of activity...Chama, Cimarron, Sargents, Durango...with staging to support trains coming and going, so the model would be the switching and locomotive servicing for that area only. An intriguing concept, if you don't mind twisting the arrangement to fit the 90 degree curves every six feet or so!

I will be holding out for broader curves, probably 22 or 24 inches, rather than caving in to the temptation of using 18" radius. Again, that really leads towards an around the room plan, which would probably have to be dominoes that could be mounted on the shelf brackets to allow free space underneath. They would be portable, include the backdrop, and be light enough for two people to easily carry the modules downstairs when we move someday.

Just my thoughts so far, haven't even put pencil to paper yet. I have some final On30 projects to wrap up for the E&SG, and some trains to sell to raise funds for the new project!

"I will be holding out for

    Hi Verne, I think large radius curves are the way to go, my small O scale layout had 46 inch radius in that 9.5  by 15.5 room so the short walls were almost all curves with just a bit a buffer between the track and the wall. Viewed from inside the loop a large radius curve looks almost like a straight-a-way so spurs and other scenery can be built along the curves. Don't be afraid to design a curved lift out for the room entrance, I've had them in both the O layout and the new N layout with no problems. If possible design your track plan so you can run some operations with the lift out removed then you leave it out most of the time. On my N layout the only time I need to install the lift out is when the SP interchange comes from the south,or if I want to run laps for some reason, but most of the time I can operate with it removed.Although tearing out you On30 layout will be a sad time I'd view it as the start of a new adventure and focus on the positive. I kinda like that idea of a loco terminal and adjacent local industries joined with some corner of room curves, seems like you could really develop the story of the town with that much length and just use staging for all points off scene....DaveB 

Thoughts & Ideas

Verne,

I'm looking at a 12X12 space to build my layout. I'm doing around the walls because it gives the longest run, and the benchwork will be a basic G configuration. Modeling in HO, I decided long ago that there wasn't enough room to a long main line, so instead I'm designing it as a single LDE, with a yard on one side to use as staging.

Living in Denver, I'm using the Coor's Brewery as the inspiration. I'll have one set of road engines to bring trains into the inbound yard tracks of the brewery, and pull outbound cars back out. The rest is switch engines, moving cars to and from spots.

Since I enjoy switching, not having the long mainline isn't that big of an issue, I can do that when I build the next layout, and take the entire 12X40 space. Doing a single big industry also allows me to fit more of it in the layout, with less compression. Basically, it's a shelf switching layout that takes up the entire space.

I'd like to use a semi-modular approach to the benchwork. I'm using 2" foam, which comes in 2X8 foot sheets, each sheet being a "module". While they are long, the foam makes them light. Two people should have no problem moving them. I may cut the sheets in half, and do 4 foot modules, since that way all of them would be the same length. If you're going to be making mountains, foam is probably the lightest way to go. That's how I'm planning to make the ridges around the brewery.

I can't say any of this is actual experience, I'm still planning, and working 50+ hours a week doesn't give me a lot of time to even do that, but it seems reasonable. With supports every couple of feet along the length of the module, the foam shouldn't sag.

Hi Vern, Just wondering if

Hi Vern,

Just wondering if you would not want to start with the HOG layout and adjust it from there to suit your needs. I believe the radius and track centers would be broader than you need. It is fairly compact and will likely be something you could adapt to fit your smaller space. Also I suspect that you are more a builder than any other aspect of the hobby although you seem to have interests in other areas as well. You might be able to adapt the heart of Georgia to your type of layout.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OWJKbUUCx00/SyMKs_oR-xI/AAAAAAAACC8/4dZCKnp6I8E/s1600-h/Heart+of+Georgia+HOG+Layout+Rev+511.jpg

The plan above shows 8 by 9 and I believe you have 10 by 10 so with the additional bit of space you could do some mountain climbing behind three sides of the plan and not be deeper than 2 feet on your bench work. You could also have a gate or lift section for entry as the plan leaves space for that or eliminate one section and go with point to point.

HOG

To me one of the best layouts I ever had was the HOG RR. I built mine in a 10 x 10 bedroom in On30 It has so much potential ! I regret getting rid of that layout. Here is a photo of the first module that I built for that railroad. The track was all hand-laid. The turnouts were Peco that I took it apart and left the mechanism and added the ties to match my hand-layed track This photo is the portion of "Cordele"

Durango is interesting as a prototype

Might fit your needs: branches to Silverton and Farmington, interchange with the RGS and mainline trains back east towards Alamosa. Lots of scenery and structure possibilities.  Sorry, can't help with module designs. Look forward to your updates. 

A lot to sort out

Thanks for your suggestions and remarks...there's a lot to sort out. I know I want something portable, almost definitely to go around the room but be self-supporting...each module would need its own backdrop integrated. That seems to me right now to be the toughest challenge. Another approach could be a shadow box technique, but I think I will probably prefer the more open feel of a traditional layout.

 "I know I want something

Hi Verne,  I considered integrated backdrops for the layout I'm working on now but after looking for an easy way to make them I realized I could just paint back drops on the wall now and then paint new ones if I do move the layout in less time than it would take me to make some freestanding backdrops :> )  I think the key would be how often does the layout need to be moved? A show layout going out every few weeks would need a different type of back drop than a modular or sectional layout that might move once five years from now. You might also consider some combination of fixed and sectional benchwork and modules, Mountainous scenes don't fit well with short sectional joints so one side of your layout might be better done as a long section with wall mounted backdrop while the other sides might be portable sections with freestanding backdrops? Lots of stuff to explore starting with the immediate goal and future projection for the new layout.....DaveB

Railroad town or mining town?

With the criteria you describe, Verne, sounds like you'll have just enough room for a town on one side and some great rocky mountain scenery on the other. The question then becomes, which end of the typical branch line do you want to model? The railroad town with all of its switching opportunities, or the high country mining camp with its well-worn equipment and funky character? I'd go for the mining town myself.

Imagine this: On one side of the room is your mining town, built in two or three modules. Directly beneath the mining town is a generous staging yard, hidden behind a hinged fascia. Trains exit the staging yard through a tunnel and climb a respectable grade around the room, passing through all of that killer scenery before arriving at your mining town. There, they switch the mines, pick up and drop off cars and get turned around at the awesome scratch-built turntable you're going to build. Then they head on back down. About halfway through the line, there could be a long passing siding (with a classic Rio Grande tank) where inbound and outbound trains could meet.

Irv Shultz

Verne:

I always admired the linear railroad Irv built and wrote about in MR. It was probably fairly level track work but the great scenery was the focus and it just kept growing ...

It wasn't narrow gauge but definitely a short line. It is funny that you are considering HOn3. I alway love seeing your progress and the little town you did for the NNGC in Pasadena was great. HO will seem so small - of course I'm one to talk! The eBay deals for HOn3 have been irresistible. When I get my HOn3 private car done it may have take a layout tour - can't wait to see what you come up with. 

Neil Erickson, Hawaii

Organise and Standardize

Hi Verne,

I've got a modular layout around a 12' x 24' room in my basement.

Here are a few things that have worked well for me...

Plug/sockets for power connections between modules and a schematic diagram book.

Full size paper pattern before beginning construction to avoid turnout/cross brace issues.

Standard template for joining module framework.

Bolt and T-nut in each leg to allow for uneven floors.

Surplus computer power supplies for 12V accessories(one or two is better than a dozen wall-warts).

Removable mountain if the module is greater than 24" wide and 24" tall.

Maximum module length 6-8' to allow for corners, stairways and doors.

Airplane-wing framing, styrofoam scenery, minimum plaster usage to reduce weight.

90% HOG

Vern,

My layout room is 10' x 12' and I'm using Scott Perry's Heart of Georgia (HOG) layout plan with a few modifications because I believe it to be interesting and the around the wall style allows me a nice 6' x 8' open area in the center.  I can actually have up to four operators in the room at one time ( but probably won't).

Good points

Good points, guys, thanks for your replies.

Bruce, yes it does seem small, almost feels like N! And I am considering handlaying my track??? Must be nuts! Appreciate the detailed design considerations, but what is 'airplane wing framing'?

Blue Hills and Yonder

Verne

Have you looked at the Blue Hills and Yonder on page 70 in Iain Rice's book Shelf Layouts for Model Railroads? I know it is On30 but it is about 10 by 15 and maybe there are some ideas you could adapt.

Another thought out of the box...East Tennessee and Western North Carolina. Doe River Gorge would be very interesting scenery.

Bill Michael

Durango

First, thanks to all for your replies...even the out of the box ones, those are especially good at jogging my thinking! I want to consider the best possibilities, conventional and otherwise!

Ernie, Durango or Chama are at the top of my list if I do a location...they both have (or had) the tall coaling towers that I really like. Both have an appeal, Chama looks like a loco facility designed by a Hollywood set designer...such an interesting layout of structures and track, and not that big.

One challenge with an actual location is the prototype authenticity, and my rambunctious side might want to freelance a little more, so the other option is a free-lanced branch line based on actual D&RGW branches.

Railroad, mining, or both?

Dave, well said...I like your proposal, will mull that over! I tend to default to railroad, but a hard-core hard-rock mining district would be fun! Gotta give that some serious consideration...

Airplane Wing Framing

This;

It is built from 1"x6" boards capped by 1"x2" stringers it is very strong and very light weight.  The top and bottom layers are luan. This was one half of two pieces for an N scale layout that I built.  The lobes are not big enough for HOn3 and scenery.  I still have the two pieces.  I'm trying to figure out if I can use these two by modifying the width.  Still mulling that over.  I spent a lot of time boring all those holes with a 2" hole saw.  Actually burnt up one B&D drill doing it.  The idea was to be portable for moves.

Den

Den, that's a neat idea..

I do like that..

Verne, you're not gonna model the Chili line?!?! I'm kinda surprised!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_Line

http://www.spudcentral.com/potd/991217.html

Sounds like a good project anyway you go about it.

Pagosa Springs

Verne,

You might consider the branch to Pagosa Springs either as a prototype or an inspiration for a freelanced branchline.  This area was full of seldom- (or perhaps never?) modeled logging lines that connected with the Rio Grande.  The Pagosa Branch itself was originally built by one of these lines and later absorbed into the D&RGW system.  I believe these were all out of service long before the 1940s, but you could certainly model them as if they had survived a bit longer.

Gordon Chappell's book "Logging Along the Denver & Rio Grande" is the definitive source on this and other logging operations in the San Juans - it tends to fetch a pretty high price these days, but occasionally you can track one down for a reasonable number.

Just a thought.

Chris

Just pick a spot on the map

Just pick a spot on the map, Verne. Anything you choose to build will be first rate.

And I agree that the chili line seems like a natural for you. One part of the D&RGW I haven't seem modeled often.

D&RGW HOn3 in 10'x10'

Vern - I'm a little late to this discussion but may have some useful insights based on thinking through the constraints created by my own 10 x 12 "leasehold".  First question is "Where's the door?".  Most bedroom doors are in a corner to allow more open space in the middle of the room with the usual bedroom furniture.  Bedrooms tend to have closets and the utility of this space either for layout or storage must also be considered.

A lot of folks are into their layout offering continuous running.  The Heart of Georgia approach does that.  The lift up at the doorway has to be well engineered.  Depending on that and how high you have the layout a duck-under can be practical or darn near impossible to live with.  If you are young and reasonably agile a 50-52" layout height is handy.  And that is just about the minimum height if you want to have a workbench under it.  The downside is that you'll need a tall stool if you want to operate or work on if while sitting down. At 40-45 inches height your workbench if any will have to stick out from the layout.  The around the wall layout will be easy to build in easy to transport in sections.  Build them light enough and they can hang from the wall and require minimal support underneath.  Removable legs make sense there.  A thoughtful layout design can work well for operation point to point with the lift out section raised.  Each section can be small enough for practical shipping by UPS with delicate structures and scenery removed.

If you want continuous running in a 10 x 10 room (Is it really 10x10 or 9 feet 4 inches square?  Makes a big difference) without a lift-up/duck under?  You can do a folded dogbone with perfect 18 inch radii on the ends and just barely have enough room to walk past the ends to get inside. One side will be about 96 inches long on it's curved end to clear a 30 inch door on the end of the wall when it opens   There will be a lot less space than the Heart of Georgia.  Hide the tight radii inside of tunnels and cuts but make sure you can get to them to deal with track cleaning and derailments. That way your sense of aesthetics won't be tested when your K27 pulls a passenger train around them. (I don't know about K36's but brass K28's don't like tight radii)  The 40 inch wide sections will be harder to move; but not impossible.  The two of them will fit in a specially built plywood car top carrier or the back of a pickup, SUV or small trailer.  They will be too wide to hang off the wall so some specially built storage cabinets underneath can provide good support.  Sketch this out and you'll see what I mean. ..................... Ed Weldon

My current layout

My current space:

My old N scale plan did just what Ed suggested, a folded dogbone. But the room was very tight with a center peninsula, and I want to avoid sharp curves if possible. In the event I do a mining theme, a tight-radius branch would be ok.

Dave, thank you...that's a lot of layout to build! 

I have considered the Chili Line or Pagosa Springs (the 2014 Narrow Gauge Annual has a great article by Mallory Ferrell on D&RGW Fourth Division branch lines including these two). I think I prefer free-lancing something, given my severely limited space...would only be able to pull off one or two prototype scenes with a lot of compression. Guess I want to do something different, go figure.

Here is a variation on a Malcom Furlow plan built by Rick Huntrods: I flipped it to fit my room arrangement. It would be very tight, Rick had enlarged Malcom's 15" radius curves because he had 12'x14' - those few extra feet make a big difference!

The closet is available if necessary, I never actually bit the bullet and cleaned it out to make room for hidden staging, but it is available space. The line in the plan ducking into the tunnel to hidden staging could go to a small staging yard in the closet.

Less track perhaps?

"Here is a variation on a Malcom Furlow plan built by Rick Huntrods: I flipped it to fit my room arrangement. It would be very tight, Rick had enlarged Malcom's 15" radius curves because he had 12'x14' - those few extra feet make a big difference!"

Hi Verne, That looks like a lot of track to fit into your space and the curves look very tight. If I'm reading it right your room is more like 9.5 by 8.75.  I think something more like this sketch would be easier to fit in.  The left side could be a yard and loco facility with what ever you wanted to put there, the level loop around the room with removable span at door could be continuous running if desired or the door span could be left out for point to point operation. The high line into the closet could have 24 inch minimum radius for good operations. Along the routes passing tracks or spurs could be added where desired, a mine in the middle of the closet loop perhaps.....DaveB