sea-rail

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   Here is a one-industry layout that i have drawn to go into a small existing 11x11 ft. bedroom.  It is a basic 4x8 design intended to fit in a corner of the room.  I had to clip triangles out and other geometric shapes and re-attach them at other places to get what i needed which really ends up making the layout 8 feet 9 inches long. But it is STILL 32 square feet.  What I needed most was access to the rear where the un-scenicked fiddle yard is. What I needed (or wanted) next was a little more track capacity. The skewed teardrop shape got me that.

   In my mind, the one industry is a sawmill set somewhere in the damp Pacific Northwest, but it could be any industry anywhere and any era too, even in an urban setting. This mill will load an occasional boxcar, many flatcars and several wood chip gons. Speaking of a one industry layout, there is an option for another industry on the proposed spur that trails back towards town off of the chip track if a guy was willing to install a turnout there. Speaking of turnouts... they're expensive! That also brings us to "area A". There are three options for this area indicated by the penciled in dotted lines. I have done the designing already on this and all three options will fit.  THEY ARE: 1) build a yard ladder that has a 12 inch engine escape lead... 2) a lateral transfer table (dotted square)... and 3) a sector plate (dotted cone).  Those last two options saves on turnouts but does not take away from operations. If you want even less turnouts, we can do away with the run-around at the mill. Of course then, we will have to shove to the mill because of the newly created Ingelnook situation. But then, lets use a caboose for that!

  So, with #6 turnouts, my math tells me (HO scale) that there is about 54 inches of clearance room between switches on the runaround track. With that, we could come into town with 5 cars or so and a caboose. The simplest (most boring) way to serve the industry would be to park the train on the outer runaround, start pulling loads from each track, double to the inbound empties and start spotting, then head out of town...  NO, NO, NO! We forgot about the self imposed rule!  "At no time shall any part of the train enter the off stage area while switching". So much for that long double-over. I will do this instead: stop train between switches on the inner run around. Uncouple and move ahead to retrieve loaded box car (if any) from shed. Run around train and couple to rear (caboose?) Shove ahead and spot empty boxcar at shed (a wise conductor would make sure cars for the shed would have been first out behind locomotive). Run over with engine to pull chip loads and come back to train. Set chip loads, boxcar(s) and caboose to outer run around. Spot empty chip gons (which are still on inside track) over to the loader. Run engine to get loaded flat car(s) and double to empty flat cars which are still sitting on inner run around. Spot them. Return with loaded flats to outer track and rest of train. Then go to coffee or head to staging.

  There is not tons of operation here but some. A guy could forget ops and build magnificent scenery or concentrate on structures. This layout could easily be improved with expansion or a different design from the get go. Maybe a shelf? I decided to stick to the constraints of a 4x8 frame of mind just for the challenge. But as it is, would this layout become boring?

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jarhead

You don't realize...

You don't realize the amount of operation you can do with your layout. The idea is superb ! With the staging yard and with the run-around and the design of it to be able to cover both sides of the pike it is very operational. Boredom will not exist on that pike, that is for sure. You really have thought outside the box for this design.

Nick Biangel 

USMC

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james660660

Looks good to me

A nice perk to that design is that it's not crammed with track and your scenery ratio to trains / track is going to be that much more realistic.  When your bored of operating there is always a ton of other things to do anyway.  Sound, lighting, weathering rolling stock, structures, etc.

 

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Virginian and Lake Erie

I would be bored with it.

I would be bored with it. However, that does not mean that you would. I like running long trains and that is not an option. There is the possibility of quite a lot of switching with the track work you have. There are buildings to construct and scenes to detail. I also like building detailed freight cars and you will certainly have lots of space to show them off on the layout. You have also included staging so that more than one train can be run on the layout in a sequence of operation. If those things are your cup of tea you will enjoy this layout a great deal and it matters not if I or anyone else would be bored or not.

It is actually a rather clever but simple design that looks like it could be economical to build and operate. Your dotted line even adds room for a bit of expansion to the existing plan. You might need no more than 20 cars on the layout one engine or two and one or two cabooses if you are in that time period. Anything extra could be swapped on and off the layout via staging cassettes if you want or via the 050. I really like the idea of the one industry layout as it allows one to construct an industry that looks like it could actually make use of a train load of goods and load a few cars with product as well.

If your goal was a simple switching pike that looks to be economical to build and operate and switching appeals to you you have hit the jack pot.

Reply 0
Michael Cougill

Boredom is in the mind

Any layout regardless of size or complexity, has the potential to be boring or endlessly fascinating. It isn't the layout, the design or the size; it's what you bring to it that determines your ultimate satisfaction. If you're bored in this craft and expecting some external source or thing to solve your problems, then you've set yourself up for endless rounds of frustration. 

I think that's an innovative design, one that very few would've considered. I encourage you to have the courage of your convictions and follow your heart. You're the only one who can decide if this plan is worthy of your time and efforts.

Regards,

Michael Cougill

 

Reply 0
TTX101

What would happen if you double-decked "Area A?"

If you're worried about boredom, could you make things more interesting by splitting the curve on the left into high and low lines?  The low line could go to the staging yard, and the high line could climb to a deck above where you might have a destination for your cut lumber and wood chips (barges would work for either, or the receiving area of a paper mill to handle the chips, for example).  Either would fit right in on a layout of the Great Northwest.

 

Rog.38

 
Reply 0
rsn48

I have given you a link to

I have given you a link to Tim Horton's layout in North Vancouver British Columbia.  I've visited it and its very well done; it is N scale.

Tab on layout design and you will find the plan which is structurally complete now.  The rectangle you see in the middle of the room is his bed, he lives in a one bedroom condo, so the room is about the size of yours.

http://www.bcrdawsonsub.ca/

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rrfaniowa

Dawson Station revisited?

I like this design and it reminded me of Ken Olsen’s Dawson Station micro layout. 

In terms of operation, you can see the videos Ken shot of the branch in operation here:

http://dawson-station.blogspot.com/2009/10/hull-oakes-mill-video-tour.html
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As you will see, there is plenty of interesting operation and I think this design would offer the same.

Scott Thornton

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ctxmf74

 "could you make things more

Quote:

"could you make things more interesting by splitting the curve on the left into high and low lines?  The low line could go to the staging yard, and the high line could climb to a deck above where you might have a destination for your cut lumber and wood chips (barges would work for either, or the receiving area of a paper mill to handle the chips, for example).  Either would fit right in on a layout of the Great Northwest."

I too was thinking about ways to get more use out of the staging side since it's such a large percentage of the layout area. My thought was to add yard scenery and put an interchange track along the backdrop so when the train returns it could sort the cars for interchange or home road yard. Having double sided scenery would also give more places to park cars and photograph them which could be handy on a small layout....DaveB 

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Dave O

"Boredom" ...

... is in the mind of the operator.  There are plenty of railroad things to do on your plan (unless of course, your main interest is rail fanning in your basement).

If you wanted to save even more on switches, you could replace area "A" (fiddle yard) with a three track, train length transfer table.

I would not be bored operating this layout.

Reply 0
ratled

IF Possible, could you have a

IF Possible, could you have a 12" wide staging/yard down the left side?  The you could make the current unsceniced area another are to operate in - say a paper mill to keep the theme going? 

But as it stands now there is still a good amount of operation going.  In time you could get boared

Steve

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joef

How to remove boredom

To remove the boredom factor from ops on this pike, here's some things you can do. 1. Add multiple spots on one or more of the spurs. 2. Put sound decoders in your locos like Tsunamis and program in braking functions like in the Allagash Story. 3. With sound added, try to follow prototype horn and bell practices. 4. Add grade crossing rules (can only block the crossing for 5 min). 5. Have some trains from staging bring in more cars than can be spotted, so deal with off-spot cars 6. Get some train crew figures and make all moves using figures on the ground as crew locations. Strive to minimize walking, etc. 7. Make up situation cards to represent bad weather, a mill accident, mill on strike (cars come but none go), etc. 8. Try different operating paperwork methods ... Tab on car, car cards, switch list, simulated waybills ... And so on. You will be able to keep yourself happily occupied for years if you try everything on this list.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
santa fe 1958

Time

Another factor is time, or more precise, how much time you have to operate the layout, especially if you follow some of the ideas Joe suggested. You may well find that it would take about 45 minutes to just run out and back! 

Brian

Brian

Deadwood City Railroad, modeling a Santa Fe branch line in the 1960's!

http://deadwoodcityrailroad.blogspot.co

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George Sinos gsinos

Boxcar loading

I don't have feel for the size of your rolling stock, but one thing I would check very early is the idea of spotting boxcars at the end of the run around track.

I'm not sure there is enough room, unless you are intentionally trying to create a conflict.  Personally, I would try to avoid building in a puzzle-like situation that only has one or two solutions.  That is one of the things that will lead to boredom.

GS

 

 

 

 

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wrsu18b

add a couple more car spots

I would add a spot at the end of the flat car track for unloading oil tank car for the Mill.  I would add another spot or two where you have the switch on the Chip track.  This would be another industry, maybe Supplier/Warehouse for the logging industry.  Or maybe a Team Track.

Doug W

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cely

Dual Gauge

Your design reminded me of Umzinto, South Africa and it's marshaling yard in Esperanza.  Umzinto is a transfer point for goods and people between railroads of different gauges.  It is served by a single, dual gauge line to Esperanza.  Besides some great pictures and history, you will find track plans for Umzinto about 60% down and Esperanza a little bit further down.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59139-south-african-two-foot-gauge-railways/  

A dual gauge design would let 2 operators shunt the industries...at the same time.  I've never seen any, but Tillig makes dual gauge track.

cely

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Bill Brillinger

thoughts

I really like where this plan is going. I think it's a very clever twist on 4x8 design

Some questions have been raised that inspire me to share a few thoughts...

1. The tail of the runaround as a loading spot.

This could be problematic. Perhaps consider extending the flatcar loading track into the building for boxcar unloading and leave the tail at the run around alone.

2. The staging yard side

I can't think of any reason to not scenic this area and make it a legitimate yard with an industry along the back side for added interest. It would be like doubling the layout without consuming more space or losing functionality.

some scribbles....

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Bill Brillinger

Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, Admin for the RailPro User Group, and owner of Precision Design Co.

Reply 0
santa fe 1958

Staging Yard

One issue I found with having the Staging Yard as a separate scenicked switching area was the tendency to have too many cars in the yard. Ask me how I know..... That is why I did away with mine and just used an extended scenic main for staging.

Brian

Brian

Deadwood City Railroad, modeling a Santa Fe branch line in the 1960's!

http://deadwoodcityrailroad.blogspot.co

Reply 0
Apprentice Demiurge

"Simple" layouts

I really like the plan! It has a good, open, uncluttered look and a clear purpose. If you don't add the dotted kickback spur you may not need the runaround track.

I also noticed the general resemblance to the prototype Hull-Oakes sawmill and the excellent  Dawson Station model railroad. There are videos of both the model railroad and the prototype in action so you can check out the operations and try and assess if they seem interesting to you. 

If you like the idea of a less complex layout, you can look for inspiration to people writing about their "simple" layouts that capture the feeling of the prototype and are entertaining to operate. Two of my favourite examples are:

Trevor Marshall's Port Rowan layout

Lance Mindheim's layouts (e.g. East Rail)

Both modellers would probably agree that they "slow down" operation relative to how many modellers do it, but also try and capture more of what real railroaders would encounter in their actual work. This allows their layouts to have "simple" track plans, to be more faithful to the prototype, and to avoid being over-crowded.

Best,

Karl

 

 

 

Karl 

_______________________________________________

Modelling the Canadian Pacific Railway's Esquimalt & Nanaimo Railway

Albion yard in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada.

HO scale, late steam era (~1948).

Reply 0
sea-rail

Liking all of these points of view...

  I have not seen any response yet that I have a problem with. I like all the ideas. To a couple of the responders: This was DEFINITELY inspired by the Hull-Oakes operation at Dawson, Oregon! I have been there many times, even when trains still went there. That whole little community is very model-railroady, especially with the old-time mill but also the white wooden offices. But I was not trying to recreate it, just inspired.

  One thing I think people caught on to was the goal of not cramming in track. I don't want to do that. I do like the idea of multiple spots for different cars on the same spur, namely, extending the flat car track into the shed for boxcar loading. An occasional inbound loaded tank car had crossed my mind also. So did putting a gate to unlock/lock to access the outdoor lumber area (mainly to consume time). By the way, there is about 18 inches beyond the switch points to end of box car/shed track... that would be enough room for one modern-ish boxcar and a road switcher type locomotive, say a GP9, to escape out the runaround. But yes- it's tight. If you brought in more than one box, you'd have to put it off-spot somewhere, maybe on the chip track. Restrictive rules are good too, like not blocking the crossing for more than 5 minutes and my own, not going past the bridge while switching.

  Scenicking the back area: that did not cross my mind... but nice! Making it a completed interchange scene is do-able. But if I did that I would start and end the workday at the mill... but that's just me... making it a mill-owned short line.

  The main idea was to keep it compact due to room constraints. I would love to be able to expand and put staging here or there, as was suggested, or to have long 30 car trains running (because I like long trains too), but have one small issue: I AM POOR, LOL!!  I just don't have the space. I would consider swinging the staging/fiddle yard up along the back wall. All that's needed there would be a straight narrow ledger.

  Thank you for all the responses and the ones that may come.

  P.S. I like the narrow gauge idea too. The NG bug bit me a little last summer.

Reply 0
Catt

becoming bored

Operations wise I would get bored real quick with the origonal plan.Scenerywise I could have a ball doing the scenery.But it's not my layout it is yours and if it pleases you that is all that counts.Have fun-post pictures.

Johnathan (Catt) Edwards

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Jon In Krakow

Looks familiar to me...

Well, not in the sense that I've seen this exact concept, but more along the lines of the prototype. Here's the one I have in mind. 

http://binged.it/1tW9tnS

This particular location is/was a brick yard. It was located at the end of the line (at least since the mid 40s), The long run-around track (just to the right of what Bing should be showing) has now been discontinued, and the left end of the siding has been extended to create a run-around on the west side. At the end of what is not the run-around, there used to be a siding that branched out and into the works at the top of the screen. Also, on the right, there was a short siding that ran between the awkwardly-shaped buildings, and to the right of them was loading for clay into covered hoppers. During its heyday it shipped a thousand cars a year or more, these were both box cars and covered hoppers, and for all I know, flats as well, but I only remember ever seeing box cars and covered hoppers. 

And for some personal history, my first memories are my father and I watching them switch this plant when I was three. I've long attributed this particular plant and railroad for my life-long interest in trains. Your track plan has actually given me ideas for how to bring this location to life again. Thanks.

Just for my personal thoughts. If it were me, I would not put an spot on that end track, and leave it just for engine run-around maneuvers. It seems like just too much in the way of complications to try to make that track do double-duty, especially with that one track requiring that switchback. I currently have the Highland Terminal (http://www.carendt.com/articles/the-highland-terminal/), and got so tired of all the switchback movements and moved turnouts T1 and T2 to the east of T4. (it also feels more prototypical) So my recommendation would be to move that spot somewhere else, or just liquidate it.  

Oops. I almost forgot to add. On the fiddle yard side, you could put a sector plate at the end to allow for loco run-around movements. 

Reply 0
riverotter

Boring? Not at all!

I like this plan - it's an excellent use of a traditional 4' x 8' space that could keep your attention long after you'd get tired of roundy-round.

If I was going to build this layout I would consider the following modifications:

Have a runaround track in staging

Definitely use the dotted line "switchback" track

Create another switchback parallel to the first one to the "north" off the same spur (that leads to the chip track)

This plan would also work well for multiple industries

Have the middle spur ("flat car loading") go into the building on the right

Have one or more streets running through the industrial area to create more "problems" for the switching crew

Because of my space available for something like this, I would build this plan as "around two walls"

Have fun!

Reply 0
Don Mitchell donm

A few suggestions:

1.  A sector plate in staging would be the cheapest way to get a locomotive around an incoming train. 

2.  But, that's a lot of area assigned to just staging on a small layout.  I'd think that eventually there'd be a desire to add some industries and scenery.  Perhaps it would be useful to consider that space as an interchange with a larger rail system and leave room for future turnouts when they can be afforded.

(Aside: under somewhat similar circumstances, I managed to scratchbuild workable turnouts using just some rail and a NMRA gauge.  Total cost per turnout was about $0.10 back then.)

3.  Change the track configuration for the box car loading by running the track nearest the edge of the layout all the way to the end parallel the loading spot.  Remove the existing turnout and replace it by 2 right hand turnouts to form a crossover.   The result is an independent boxcar spot along with a runaround.

Don Mitchell 

Don Mitchell

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Reply 0
t_olivar

Would this layout become boring to operate?

It would become boring if you were just running trains with out any purpose.  But if you do as some others have suggested by adding to Area A, a paper or cardboard company and maybe a business of some kind of wood products like maybe a furniture company or a crate company, or even a barrel company.  Then the train would serve a genuine purpose on the layout and from there, you could create a schedule for pick-up and delivery of raw materials and finished goods.  With a schedule and a timetable, you would be challenged to create and meet a timetable schedule.

By adding adding a small run-around siding connected to a supposed mail-line track in the upper-left corner and imagining it as a transfer point, you could drop off finished goods from Area A, and on the way back to Area A, pick up tankers of glues, varnish or paints to add to dropping off at the businesses in Area A.  Using the 050 method of car transfer at that location, you can place empty cars and full tankers for each side of the layout as needed.

Once you have done that, then you can invite one or two other model railroaders over for operating sessions.  Thus, you would have almost endless hours of possible enjoyment with your layout and model train friends.

 

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