Rio Grande Dan

First Let me give all the credit for this Information to The Model Railroad Craftsman Magazine Sept 2008.

This was in a Special Supplement in the center section of the Sept. 2008 Edition called The Laser Guide - in the tool box Quick Tips section and it's a shortened version and isn't copied word for word Just the main differences in glues as they described them.

#1. White Glue- easy to use, clean up with soap and water,They have long term Flexibility and Dry Clear have limited strength and limited resistance to moisture & are Slow Drying. there are two Commonly available in this family.

  a.- Caseinate Glues: Derived from Milk with the most common brand Elmer's White Glue they have a long "Grab, Set & Drying time of 8 hrs should be clamped in place doesn't work well on non-porous and dissimilar materials easily thinned and works well on scenery and ballast when thinned.

  b.- PVA Glues: a white glue that has a thicker consistency than Caseinate glue and a faster grab, it will glue dissimilar materials where there is limited stress very good for laminating items and attaching clear glazing in windows. recommended by RMC as the best type for Model RR use is Aleene's Tacky Glue since it secures pieces quickly.

#2. Aliphatic Resin Glues: Know as wood working or carpenters Glue. The only minor drawback is they don't dry clear and excess should be wiped clean of visible surfaces. Aliphatic resin glue is a key adhesive for building laser-cut kits but must be carefully applied and all excesses removed. Franklin's Titebond and Elmer's Carpenter's glue are the most common.

  a.- a new formulation designed for Model use is becoming available from Great Britain. It is Marketed by Deluxe Materials, Super 'Phatic glue & is designed specifically for the model builder & possesses all the virtues of Franklin's and Elmer's with their faster grab but with a thinner Body.

#3. Alpha Cyanoacrylates:  Commonly Named Super Glue & revolutionized Model building.

  a.- CA glues Grab quickly, cure clear and are great for bonding dissimilar materials and come in a number of Viscosity's from water thin to a thick gel and the Thick Gels work best on wood and card stock.

  b. - Down side of CA is it should never be used to affix clear plastics or glazing used for  windows or cock pits on Model Aircraft as it has a tendency to fog the plastic so always make sure all the CA has cured completely on any model before applying the windows in structures and never store uncured freshly assembled models in a sealed container as the fumes will cause finger prints to raise on the surface as well as fogging all the windows.

#4. Solvent Based Glue: Old school Glues such as Ambroid, Duco and other similar.

  a.- They grab quickly and still allow time for alignment and usually set without the need for clamping.

  b. - They are Moisture resistant but may become brittle over time (measured in Decades.

#5. Gorilla Glue: It uses the ambient moisture of the bonded materials to cure. It is Exceptionally strong, Moisture resistant.

  a.- Not recommended for model building since it foams and pushes the bonded pieces away from each other if not clamped with extreme pressure. It's Great for Bench work but avoid trying to build models with it.

#6. Model Master Clear Parts Cement & Window Maker. Designed by Testers for attaching clear canopies to model airplanes. It dries clear and has more moisture resistance than standard PVA glues.

That's all the info they had and I thought it is something all Model Railroaders should Know so I hope I'm not stepping on Carstens great Railroad Model Craftsman Magazine Toes as a subscriber since 1960 and have purchased almost all their back issues to 1933 and consider them one of my best references for model railroading.

Dan

Rio Grande Dan

Reply 0
ChrisNH

You might be a model railroader if..

If you can have a conversation for 30 minutes on the subject of adhesives.. you just might be a model raillroader..

Chris

“If you carry your childhood with you, you never become older.”           My modest progress Blog

Reply 0
dfandrews

Where's my sign

Hi, I'm Don, and I'm a model railroader.    I've had those conversations about adhesives. 

Don - CEO, MOW super.

Rincon Pacific Railroad, 1960.  - Admin.offices in Ventura County

HO scale std. gauge - interchanges with SP; serves the regional agriculture and oil industries

DCC-NCE, Rasp PI 3 connected to CMRI, JMRI -  ABS searchlight signals

Reply 0
jappe

Hey Dan.....

Here is wat is around my layout concerning glues,

PVA, straight, diluted 50/50 with water and an in between those 2,lol 

A little CA.

And last but not least.  A little bottle of Methyl Ethil Ceton (read keton) (MEC). Bonds plastic like no other glue, it is cheap and is in my top list of scratchbuilders plastics glue. No more gulping out glue, just a touch with a paintbrush loaded with MEC and it sticks. For seams, just push the 2 pieces a little, let dry , a pass with some fine abrasive paper and the seam is gone. I bought a quarter gallon of MEC some ten years back for, if I recall it right, 5 bucks and I am still at my first refill little bottle. It is not realy bonding the plastic, infact it melts them together. And since you can use a brush to apply it, you can realy do fine to extra fine glue jobs with it.

Jappe

CEO, U.P.-Willamette Valley Sub aka U.P.-Eureka & Willamette Valley Branch

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Don't ride behind me, I will not lead you, don't ride in front of me, I will not follow you, just ride next to me and be my bro......

Reply 0
Rio Grande Dan

MEK is mainly a cleaner and

MEK is mainly a cleaner and Fiber-glass resin solvent. But back in the 60's in middle school or Jr. High as we called it back then I had shop classes. Besides Electric,wood, and metal shop they had one called Crafts and we were required at least 1 year each of 2 of the others mentioned in order to qualify for crafts as it was a combination of all three and plastics. we used MEK but we didn't use it straight as it was really too strong for bonding plastic because it would distort the plastic so we would add 1 ounce of  Peroxide to a pint (16 ounces)of MEK to stabilize it as a bonding agent and changed it into MEK-P a plastic bonding agent that didn't melt everything so fast and made it safer to use. Actually it also slowed the evaporation time, not alot but just enough so you had enough time to adjust your work slightly and it slightly reduce the amount the plastic it melts so you don't end up with the plastic balling up along the seams no sanding required. also when you have models with long pieces like wings on model Airplanes and they have those alignment pins that fit into holes on the opisite side you can paint a line of the MEKP along the entire seam without melting the holes closed or destroying those aligment pins. As you know Jappe if you use too much it can destroy any details on plastic like simulated wood grain or other lite detail lines in the plastic and the addition of the peroxide retards this.

Dan

Rio Grande Dan

Reply 0
railandsail

we used MEK but we didn't use

Quote:

we used MEK but we didn't use it straight as it was really too strong for bonding plastic because it would distort the plastic so we would add 1 ounce of  Peroxide to a pint (16 ounces)of MEK to stabilize it as a bonding agent and changed it into MEK-P a plastic bonding agent that didn't melt everything so fast and made it safer to use.

What form of peroxide?....did you mean hydrogen peroxide??

 

 

Reply 0
eastwind

wither MEK?

Does MEK, and the substitutes for MEK that Joe and others prefer, fit in category #4 or would they be a separate category?

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index

Reply 0
railandsail

MEK substitute

When I went to Home Depot the other day looking for MEK, I found it was NOT available. The only thing they had on the self was "MEK Substitute",...what ever that is ??

 

 

Reply 0
Pennsy_Nut

Joe's answer

Some time ago, Joe Fugate did an article on this. I bought MG Chemicals "Ethyl Acetate" per his suggestion. And now for my disclaimer.I have not used it yet. I only bought it to try and have so many other cheaper stuff to use up first. Also, it was purchased through Amazon. And I have no connection to any of them. So, this is just a response to our discussion of MEK and how Joe gave this alternative. ? Right, Joe?

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
railandsail

Joe Fugate did an article....

I recall that same discussion, and was trying to find it again, in order to place a posting about another older cyanoacrylate adhesive I had experienced in the past,  ....but could not recall its name. I found an old piece of paper in my files just recently that identified it,...and I will post that in that other discussion when I find that other discussion.
 

Yes I was also attracted to "Ethyl Acetate" per his suggestion. I also purchased some from Amazon. I had occasion to try out some of it not too long ago on small repairs to a used building of mine. I was NOT that impressed.
Its reaction was quite a bit slower than my old Tenax 7 product. Thats when I decided to look again at experimenting with MEK,... but now only finding this 'substitute' stuff at the store, and wondering exactly what is it??

 

 

Reply 0
joef

MEK Substitute

Quote:

[Ethyl Acetate's] reaction was quite a bit slower than my old Tenax 7 product. Thats when I decided to look again at experimenting with MEK,... but now only finding this 'substitute' stuff at the store, and wondering exactly what is it??

If you look up the MSDS on MEK Substitute here's what you find ...

SAFETY DATA SHEET (MSDS)
Klean-Strip MEK Substitute

3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
   CAS# 141-78-6   Acetic acid, ethyl ester {Ethyl acetate}   100.0 % 

The stuff is 100% Ethyl Acetate (ethyl ester of acetic acid).

I've found Ethyl Acetate to be just fine and yes it's a bit slower than MEK, but it's not THAT much slower. Very adequate. Ethyl acetate is what gives fruity wines their fruity taste. Your body's metabolism actually makes small quantities of Ethyl Acetate as well -- but like any concentrated chemical, treat it with respect and don't ingest it. Even common table salt in concentration can damage your body if you ingest it in quantity.

Tenax7R
Tenax7 is nasty stuff and it evaporates like crazy. I've never been able to keep a bottle around -- it evaporates even with the lid on once the seal has been broken. Tenax7R is no longer being manufactured, but there is a different company making the same formula now and it's called JMD Plastics Styrene Tack-it. It's hard to get even so, and often out of stock.

For Tenax7R fans ...
If you want super fast, then get yourself some Deluxe Materials Plastic Magic 10s. It's non-flammable, low-odor, non-toxic, and super fast. Oh yes, and it has a very low evaporation rate, so it has all the advantages of Tenax7 except it's far less hazardous and fast acting. And it won't all evaporate in a few days after you break the seal on the bottle.

Deluxe Materials Plastic Magic 10s, $13.48 + free shipping (Amazon):
https://amzn.to/38AsibN

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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