Water!...   What water ?... 

Ah!..  I konw that!...   It's looks like green cellophane over a grimy gray piece of insul board.  

And who ever said the world was not square ...

Marc 

What's REALLY there...

The water beyond the ore boat is actually an aisle 99% of the time:

Then I spread the celophane out over the Dow Board, 'randomize' the wrinkles and - wah-lah! - I've got a full-width river for the photo session:

The full-view finished image will be appearing in the January issue of MRH - no sense in posting it here now and spoiling the surprise, ya think?

Woho!

That set is old and out-of-date

Josh,

That link is from 2 years ago before I revised my layout, it's totally out-of-date.  I'll put in some newer ones shortly...

Who would have thought!?

Thats awesome.. that green cellophane is the best looking port seawater I have seen.. and in the image I had absolutely NO idea that was what it was!

Kudos!

Chris

Thank you Chris!

Thank you Chris!

...........................

Sure wish I could remember how I came up with the idea - just got lucky I guess.

Amazing!

Well I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.  So simple and yet it looks great in the photo's!

...And that magnificent Ship!

Great idea for water, but let's not allow ourselves to get swept away without raving about that beautiful SHIP. That is one great model, Josh. Nice weathering job too.

Introducing myself here; (ahem) Hi, I'm Pete. I like scenery and structures best (along with trains, rain and spaghetti) and my wife and I make model trees. This new magazine looks like a lot of fun, doesn't it? Thanks, Joe and Patty.

Question for you Ken

You mention that this is great for a photoshoot, which it does look perfect by the way, but could you see using this cellophane on a permanent basis on a layout? Or is it just best suited for photography only?

thanks

Mike

Mike, I'd say, judging from

Mike,

I'd say, judging from the few pictures he posted in the thread, that it would be an almost perfect simulation.  Add  some type of air circulation under the cellophane and it would be killer.

Marc

Marc

Marc,

I agree, air circulation perhaps, I was thinking of some type of permanent underlayment that had the ripples and wakes for the cellophane to lay down on and be attached too. It maybe too ridgid through but may be worth experimenting with to see if it would conform to that type of surface. Perhaps using a hair dyer to soften it up abit.

Shrugs, yaw never know.

Mike

It depends on how you define "permanent"...

Mike, my answer is kinda long-winded - hope you don't mind!  :-D

If by "permanent" you mean having it on the layout all the time - including when people run trains - the answer would be Yes.  Mine is always covering an 8-inch ledge, while the rest of it hangs down as a fascia of sorts.  But as for premanently attaching it over a broad area, I'd avoid doing that. 

Even though it's glossy and reflective, celophane has an extremely soft surface for the purpose of attaching to food containers [they don't call it cling wrap for nothing, LOL].  Trouble is, this clingy characteristic also makes it nearly impossible to brush off micro-fine particles of dust that may get on it.  For that reason [and others*] I simply have it tacked-on under the layout, and sitting loosely on the ledge.  In fact I'm about to replace it, since a large area of it got caked with dust when I was carving out a section of plywood to make room for a slag pit.

I used it because real-life water in an inland harbor [such as the Cuyahoga River thru Cleveland] is very calm, with few ripples if any.  Using celophane to simulate a flowing river or an ocean front with waves is something I've never thought about doing - especially trying to blow air under it as Marc was suggesting.

* I also had to re-position a few of the thumb tacks holding it on, since some of the ripples were too straight and at the wrong angles to look believable.

Thanks

Makes perfect sense Ken, the static clingy effect is a big factor that I did not think about. I can see how that can attract dust etc. It sure looks great though, thanks for your insight on this, super idea...

My question started this thread

What a great site! 

Since I was new to this site, I just sent my water question to "contact us".  I am beginning to re-install my ore dock on the new DM&IR layout, and the great water you showcased looks like just the thing I needed.  On a clear day, the Duluth area water has the traditional blue lake color on the surface, but looking down into the water (those few times I was lucky enough to tour the ore dock up-topside), you see the green that comes out so well here.

Try painting a few different swatches...

Milt,

Pleased to meetcha - always glad to find another lakeboat modeler!

To answer your question: I can't say for sure if these tired eyes of mine can actually detect exactly what color my "silt" is - the important thing is that it makes the water look murky as industrial harbor water should, NOT crystal clear.  I'd suggest you paint a half-dozen different 1'x1' plywood or foam slabs and apply varying mixtures of the blue/gray color combo.  Then lay the celophane over each and see which one you like best.  BTW - be sure to do this in the same type of lighting  that you have on your layout.

Good luck, and show us some pix when you're done!

The water look great, what about the ore boat

Ken, I can see the issues, you have with the water, I had actually never thought of cling wrap. Creative minds can overcome anything with common household stuff.

     Now inquiriing minds want to know about your ore boat, did you scratchbuild, kitbash or is it a kit, I don't know about? Doesn't look like the Bearco or the Sylvan kit. If it is you did a world class build/paint/weathering job on it. I model Ashland, WI, so I've got both a 1900 ft long poured concrete ore pier to build, and a couple of lake boats as well. Mainline Modeler had plans for the pier (although I don't know how I'm going to build it without it being a couple of tons), but some tips on your boat would be appreciated.

Ken.  I don't ever remember

Ken.

I don't ever remember the Cuyahoga being green. Brackish brown if it wasn't on fire if I remember. I moved out of Cleveland 30 years ago though. I try to visit once or twice a year if I can. There have been a lot of bad areas cleaned up and the Flats is not the same as when I was growing up.

BTW GREAT job of modeling. I love the looks of what you have done. You are a truly great modeler.

Pete

It's a Scratch-Bash

Sully -

My ore boat, which was at first named the Victoria, started out as a Sylvan Great Lakes Freighter kit with 3 hull extensions.  Since the original forward house was of a turn-of-the-century style, I decided to scratchbuild my own larger, more modern one out of PVC pipe couplings.  I also made my own stack, since the original one was too tiny to look believable.  I did an article about this in the now-defunct Model Railroading magazine (Sept. 2002 issue), if I can find the original manuscript I'll share it. 

That was Phase 1.

After the article, I tried to earn an NMRA AP merit award on it to apply toward a Structure Modeling Certificate.  But the judges failed it because it wasn't detailed enough.  So I totally overhauled it, doing my own handrails, Central Valley stairways ("ladders" in seafaring jargon), scratchbuilt a modern hatch crane, and added davits to the lifeboats.  I also changed the name to Marquette since Cleveland-Cliffs named their earlier vessels for Michigan mining towns.  After doing all this I was too burned out with my AP quest, so I never bothered to get it re-judged.

She's presently "dry-docked" on my mantlepiece while I build a new layout.

Green for today, brown for an earlier era

Pete, thank you for the kind words! 

I agree that the green water may look too clean to represent the 1970's, but since I was modeling CSX of the early 1990s I figured it would have been cleaned up by then.  I'm fixing to revert to modeling the late-1960s B&O, so if I do that I'll try to find a dirtier-looking combination of celophane over paint.  I guess the "right" thing to do would be to mix up several gallons of tinted Envirotex since that is what all the pro's do, but my lazy side prevailed this time.

Re- it's a scratch-bash

Ken; darn I thought it was a kit I didn't know about.. I don't wanna learn how to build boats (petulant stomp), Oh well..

Ken are you out here on the East coast somewhere?? I could have sworn I saw a similar model at one of the NMRA MER mini-cons ( the one I was actually in town for), and I'm pretty sure I have that issue of MRG.

If it was in a church basement in NoVA...

...and the year was 2002, it was probably mine.  I don't know of anybody else in the region who has modeled a Great Lakes ore boat in HO scale (Monroe Stewart did a few in N scale). 

I live in Maryland, about 10 miles west of Baltimore. 

And that magnificent Ship!

Just for your information the ore ships on the Great Lakes are NOT ships. They are ORE BOATS! Don't ask me why, they just are. Been that since my grandfather was a tug boat captain. Just don't call one of the "salties" a boat, they get upset because they ARE SHIPS! Then there are the ferries and fishing boats and the cruise ships and.........  Well I think you get the picture.