Interesting concept Rick. I

Interesting concept Rick. I think the view and sky part of the Horizon will vary a bit depending on the location being depicted. For example in East Texas where there is a lot of nearly flat terrain the sky is distant and much lower than it was in Appalachia. Unless one was looking at one of the open ends of the valley when in the valley the horizon was a close view of one of the nearby hills, one had to actually look up to see the sky unless one went to the top of one of the hills.

I am sure what you are doing based on your previous efforts will be very good and I am looking forward to seeing it when you get to post some of the finished work.

Rob in Texas

Horizons and Height of Eye ...

... are the 'backbone' of perspective drawings.  One really needs to have a good understanding of this relationship to get the perspective to look right.

Using the example of the lake in the first photo.  Since we are seeing the surface of the lake (which is presumably a 'flat' horizontal surface); one 'knows' that they are standing ABOVE the elevation of the lake and looking DOWN upon it.  Therefore, the viewer's 'height of eye' (i.e., 'horizon') should be located somewhere ABOVE the image of the lake.

In a model railroad, where 3D elements are located in front of the backdrop, the 'horizon' should be located somewhere near the eye level of the observer ... this will help ensure that the horizon of the modeled portion matches the horizon of the backdrop ... when the two horizons do not agree with each other, it will look odd.

[Even better, avoid including things in the backdrop that 'force' the horizon so that the viewer's horizon will be solely based on the 3D modeled portion of the railroad.]

Here is a short and sweet discussion of horizons and eye level and how they are applied to perspective drawings.

http://www.artyfactory.com/perspective_drawing/perspective_2.html

If you do a search on Keywords such as  horizon, perspective, height of eye, etc. you will find more information including some useful videos of how this all fits together.

Eye level.....

That's how I've always set mine.   I paint my sky starting blue at the top and fading to white at the bottom.  The sharpest delineation between the two where the sky becomes almost all white is right there at  my eye level which is my horizon. I also find it easier to paint in my mountains on the backdrop after my 3D mountains are in place...at least the profile boards for them anyway. Then again, my backdrop mountains have no detail, not even trees. They are just silhouttes shrouded in a mist.  While I admire the photo realistic backdrops that some use and applaud the talent of those who paint more detailed backdrops, I think "less is more" for what I'm trying to convey.

Michael

I chickened out.

For my backdrop I just painted sky transitioning from blue to white for the virtual horizon.  I have an art degree, mostly in oil paints, and I've done my fair share of landscapes, but I knew I'd never get it totally 'correct' to my self-imposed standards (photo-realism...a curse but yet a goal).  Besides, I want to eventually be able to do some sunrise and sunset lighting effects.  A neutral background was in order, IMO, with no greens or grays (fades of daylight colors) that would maybe make the sun effects look weird.  Therefore, I have things in a valley- standing up and looking at the layout, the eye-line is at the top or close to the top of my bluffs (covered in trees, so I can add extra height with 'daylight' beyond), and sitting in a chair..well that works better for the effect, considering the trains are then at eye-level for a 6' guy.  Since it's in a 'valley' there really isn't a need to show "what's beyond that hill/bluff".  Your imagination will hopefully tell you that behind the side of that bluff there is more of the same- rolling high hills covered in trees.

At least that's the idea if I ever get my scenery beyond 4.5% complete....

Rob, you are correct in that

Dave O. - very helpful information

Steve, I may also "chicken

Richlawn RR V2 - Backdrop painting - prep of the practice pieces

I may not be the sharpest pencil in the pack but I've got enough smarts not to ruin my layout room walls by practicing painting them with backdrops.  Yes, I know that I can paint over the "art"on the walls; however, for $9.00 I bought a piece of 1/2" x 4ft x 8ft drywall and cut into approximate 2ft x 4ft practice panels.  These practice panels will allow me the ability to practice without possibly getting paint on my track and will allow for a more comfortable working environment.  The sheen is because the flat finish paint is still wet.

A bit of humor

Rick,

In the first picture I couldn't help but think that was a "scrubbing bubble" in the upper right hand of the picture.

Bernd

Bernd - a good one!

The smoke detector does indeed look like a little Scrubbing Bubble!

Probably a good idea ...

...

1. You will feel less 'intimidated' (to borrow an overused word from another thread); and more likely to try different techniques and experiment more with color, form and texture.

2. You will be able to adjust the location of the skyline (where the sky meets the land/trees/whatever) on your layout to see what looks best to you.  The 'horizon' is often hidden by the skyline (i.e., the skyline often rises above the horizon).  I suspect that you will find a location where the skyline is slightly above your eye level will look 'natural'.

If you stick to a simple skyline (mountains, hills, etc.) and avoid buildings and lakes etc. the horizon will be suggested by the modeled foreground (which would normally coincide with the viewer's eye level); and as long as the painted skyline is above that, it should look fine.

From your earlier demonstration, I predict you will be quite successful in this endeavor ... as long as you are not too critical with yourself.  Just use color and shape and texture to 'suggest' the distant hills/mountains and your mind will do the rest.  Cheers. Dave O

Painting clouds with a brush and airbrush

I attempted painting clouds using a brush and had difficulty trying to blend them into the backdrop blue due to the irregular surface and ended up with blue "dots" at the edges (see first photo).  I tried different paints, thinning the paint, and different brushes to no avail.

On my previous Richlawn Railroad layout I used an airbrush to paint the clouds and liked the control that it gave me along with the blending ability.  The picture below was taken inside thus the difference in the appearance of the blue even though both pictures are of the same color blue.  Note the faded edges of the cloud.  The white dots are where I didn't have my paint thinned correctly.

After airbrushing the clouds just for fun I tried some distant hills.  I don't like the color of the green in the foreground.  I'm thinking about using an airbrush to do the horizon, clouds, and distant hills and then perhaps use Chris Lyon's method to do the closer trees.  Your feedback (positive and negative) is welcome.

If you are using other than a flat surface,

then you're going to have problems that are induced by the surface you're painting on.  Note that Lionel used wallboard as his backdrop.  If you are not on a wallboard surface then the bumpy wall texture will show, which is what I think that is what I am seeing in your photo.

Those airbrushed clouds look

Those airbrushed clouds look like ...oh I don't know... water vapour!

Tom, you are correct

I have been trying to follow

I have been trying to follow Mr Lyon's video techniques to paint the horizons of Minnesota's Iron Range, with its "lovely" tailings/overburden piles.  I painted the clouds and the far purple-ish hills and got some "dots" like you describe, but the overall look is fine, I think.  If you click the photo, you will see it in the clouds and far-horizon line.

Thanks Mike C.

Milt - Looks great

Looks just like the views I remember near Proctor! Nice job.

ended up with blue "dots" at the edges

 That irregular stipple pattern looks great for clouds. The blue looks a bit too blue but that might just be the photo. I like to gradually blend the white horizon sky into the high blue sky using a roller which leaves some of that stipple effect. Airbrush works fine for haze or fog but the coverage is too homogenous for most clouds. ....DaveB

Milt - I like your painted backdrop

Thanks, Rick.  Unlike what

Thanks, Rick.  Unlike what was shown in the video, I used a dusty blue that I had left over from our house.  I had tried it before on the backdrop (pre-video learnings), and already knew it to be a good representation, so I didn't have to mix it.  It is Homely Depot's Evermore paint colored to "Lakefront" 90BG 31/124.

EDIT:  I see I still cut the blue with about 1/3 flat white latex. 

Everything else I did was per the videos. 

Now, I am on to a section that will show rooftops, church steeples and a power plant poking through the trees, so am wondering how to do that.  I think I will have to resort to hard straight lines for structures.  I recall seeing someone's backdrop where he had painted in these details freehand, and the wavering made it look very toy-like.

Just as an aside, I hope we have a chance to meet in person one day.

Rick another possible back drop idea

After reading with a great deal of interest your back drop plans and concerns I thought of something I was going to use on my own layout when the time comes. New London Industries makes stencils for use with spay cans for hills clouds etc. I have bought the cloud set they have two and when the time comes to put the clouds on my sky blue back drop that is what I will be using. They also make products for mountains etc.

If the brush painting does not work out to your satisfaction you may go to the rattle can and get something passable to have behind your 3d modeling.

I have just discovered another benefit of modeling in the upper Ohio Valley, along the Ohio River. If one is at or near to the level of the river looking east the view is very shallow and the towns and industries have a very steep and high hill right behind them considerably limiting the depth one needs to convey. Essentially one sees a few blocks worth of buildings and then a steep hill that is 500 to a thousand feet higher than your view point.

If any of your L&N inspired layout is in these hollows you may not have too much to agonize over in the end after all. Now when you hit the tops of those ridges the view expands dramatically.

Good luck on the back drop, I am following your progress with great interest.

Rob in Texas

Wishy-Washy me

So I was looking at my painting attempt that I had propped up in my trainroom.  I had a piece of backdrop from Backdrop Junction that I taped up behind Buck & Loretta's and now I'm thinking "It sure would be easier to just purchase a backdrop and it sure looks better (to me) than what my best effort would be".  Decisions, decisions!

Rob in Texas - thanks for the suggestions.