siouxlake

I am not sure if this is being done right, but I have attached a location diagram for the electronic components for a constant lighting circuit (DC) (schematic attached) for installing 3 LEDs in an Athearn 200t Railroad Crane. Could someone take a look at the 2 images and let me know if things look okay, before I warm up my soldering iron?

Siouxlake

Reply 0
LKandO

Not quite right

You have your resistors in series. The resistor/LED combos should be in parallel.

Wired in parallel:

gram_jpg.jpg 

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
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Reply 0
LKandO

Rectifier Labeling

BTW... A bridge rectifier will be labeled with a "+", "-", and two "~". The "~" terminals go to track power. It doesn't matter which goes to which rail.

kb2%2008.jpg 

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
nsparent.png 

Reply 0
Mark R.

Looks Ok To Me (?)

Following the diagram, I don't see that the resistors are in series. (?) Looks fine to me.

Not sure how much room you have, but I would try to go to a much higher value capacitor than 1000mfd. If you are after some kind of stay alive, 1000mfd isn't going to do much. Also, going to a 16 volt rating will net you a smaller physical size enabling you to get more capacitance in the same physical size of the 35 volt version. 

I've built a similar circuit using 5v - 0.1farad caps. The trick to using the 5 volt capacitor is to place the resistor between the rectifier and the capacitor, not the capacitor and the LED. The resistor limits the voltage to the capacitor to the same voltage required for the LEDs, which is well below the rated 5 volts.

 

untitled.JPG 

The capacitor is 5V - 0.1Farad and the resistor for three LEDs would be around 280 to 320 ohms. In theory, you could go as low as 130 ohms and still be safe even at 12 volts DC.  

In comparison, a 1000uf capacitor = 0.0001Farads - so my capacitor has 1000 times the capacitance in the physical size of a stack of five dimes.

 

Mark.

Reply 0
Kevin Rowbotham

Hmm...

I'm no E.E. but I am with Alan, something seems to be not quite right.  In the drawing the resistors appear to be wired so that R1 will limit current to both front LED's and then R1, R2 and R3 will combine to limit current to the rear LED, unless I am misunderstanding the drawing...

Alan's revised drawing looks right to me and he is correct about the labeling and wiring of the rectifier.

~Kevin

Appreciating Modeling In All Scales but majoring in HO!

Not everybody likes me, luckily not everybody matters.

Reply 0
Mark R.

My apologies - I was looking

My apologies - I was looking at the published diagram above which IS correct. I thought it was a straight copy of the linked picture. 

Yes, the linked picture does have the resistors in series and should be corrected as revised above. Sorry.

 

Mark.

Reply 0
DrJolS

1000 micros equals one milli

I don't count rivets, but I think I can count decimal places. Mark's 0.1 Farad capacitor is an impressive improvement in capacitance, but 0.1 F is 100 millifarads, or a "mere" 100 times the value of 1000uF, which is 1 millifarad.

Reply 0
Mark R.

Apparently I had trouble

Apparently I had trouble counting the decimal places. 1 farad equals 1,000,000 microfarads .... 0.1 microfarads equals 100,000 microfarads, divided by the original 1000 microfarad capacitor equals 100. 

so, yes, 100 times is correct .... 

Mark.

 

 

Reply 0
siouxlake

Thanks for the oversight

I am new to circuits, beyond just soldering a resistor to an LED, so I needed some other "eyes" on my work.

Based on Alan's revision, it will be necessary to locate the front resistors and the additional wiring between the front LEDs rearward to keep any crossover behind the cable string assembly for the boom of the crane. Not a big deal, but far better to know it know than when in the middle of wiring things. I got a Radio Shack bridge rectifier, that only has the (+) labeled on the top of the component, but the rear of the package shows the (-) and the two other wires on each side. There was not much of a selection of capacitors when I went to the Shack, so I got one that was 35V vs the 20V shown on the schematic I used.

Thanks for all your (plural) help.

 

Siouxlake/ Ron

Reply 0
LKandO

Schematic vs Parts Location

Typically, a schematic does not indicate actual component or wire locations. A schematic is drawn to make the circuit more easily understood i.e. inputs on the left, outputs on the right, + power on top, ground on the bottom. The actual physical position of parts often varies greatly from the schematic diagram.

Yours is such a case. The feed for the resistors can be located anywhere along the circuit as long as it doesn't bypass a resistor. The illustration below shows one possibility. You might consider locating all of the discrete components together (for ease of assembly) and then run only wires to the LEDs.

m_jpg(1).jpg 

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
nsparent.png 

Reply 0
Yaron Bandell ybandell

16V rated capacitor?

Mark,

I would not recommend using a 16V capacitor in a device powered by 12V DC or DCC powered track. The EMF spikes of any motor driven by the same track can easily exceed 16V and kill your capacitor. Using 35V or above rated capacitors (and even bridge rectifiers) is what I'd recommend using to give you some more "spike" headroom.

Reply 0
LKandO

Holy Exploding Capacitors Batman!

Quote:

I would not recommend using a 16V capacitor in a device powered by 12V DC or DCC powered track...  Using 35V or above rated capacitors (and even bridge rectifiers) is what I'd recommend using to give you some more "spike" headroom.

...so I got one that was 35V vs the 20V shown on the schematic I used.

By accident Ron did get a 35v capacitor. The rectifier he bought is likely an even higher voltage rating. Sometimes fate treats you right! 

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
nsparent.png 

Reply 0
Mark R.

16v Caps "Should" Be Ok ....

Way back in the day, I used 16V caps on all my constant lighting units. Used them for about eight years with no problem until I converted to DCC. Under normal operating conditions, very seldom would more than 8 volts DC ever be on the rails. 

My current circuits using DCC all use the 5V super caps as per my diagram and have been in constant use for over fifteen years. I use them primarily in cabooses using a 1000 ohm resistor powering two yellow LEDs. Higher value resistor than what I mentioned earlier because I only use two LEDs and the yellows only require 2.2 volts to operate. It takes nearly 90 seconds for the lights to go out after lifting it from the rails.

Since I built mine years ago, TCS has brought out their stay alive modules using 3.2V / 1 farad caps. The secret to theirs is that they wire five of them in series for a working voltage of 16 volts with a total capacitance of 200,000 microfarads. Based on what they are making, the 16V rating MUST be ok.

Maybe I've just been lucky (?) - have never had a capacitor let go on me.

Mark.

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