Very interesting, Chris.  I've been doing more research into the area I want to model (Calgary - Revelstoke corridor), and I'm finding that the most interesting time to model is the transition.  I'm sure that's not a surprise to most people, but it was a bit to me, as I really had no interest in transition because I never saw it.  I like steamers and railfannig steam, but not much interest in modeling it.  Until I started doing more research, and listening to my father talk about his memories of the area when he was a kid.  Now, I'm really thinking of going to that era, but I have the same issue as you.

So, without hijacking the thread further, I'm definitely going to stick with N and I'll have to start out with pretty well all diesels anyway, but I have one Kato N Scale steamer, and it runs silky smooth.  However, its a japanese prototype (my wife wanted it when we went to a train show about 15 years ago because it was "cute") so it doesn't fit my area.  I'm curious to hear from others about this as well.  I know steamers are an issue in availability for N, but I would hope the quality is as good now as the diesels. 

Fortunately I do not know enough about steam to be able to notice detail problems.. if it has the right number of wheels and the right logo on the side it looks good to me. I am sure that will change..

Chris

Chris, does this help? Sound equipped and everything.

Spectrum 2-8-0: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaSha-tJEGU&feature=related

P2K NKP Berk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kudjM0qjeS0&feature=related

Model Power 4-4-0 (not quite as smooth as the above although I think some of it's the operator) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTwS5uqWeGA&feature=related

With a little work, you could probably make the Spectrum 2-8-0 look like a B&M K-8. The Model Power 2-6-0 & 4-4-0 use the same boiler and it looks like the 2-6-0 is based on an NYC prototype. However, you can get them with the arch roof cab that would be appropriate for a B&M B-15. The 4-4-0 also resembles one of the later B&M 4-4-0's. All three would be appropriate for a 1926 era B&M layout. IIRC, the B&M P-2 variant 4-6-2's were a bit smaller than the USRA lights, but the MP 4-6-2 could probably make a good stand in.

My wife, who really likes N scale, convinced me to try N after a 25 year absence. I did have an N scale flush door layout in the early 80's but the quality of a lot of the equipment left a lot to be desired (Atlas 4-6-2 had two speeds: stop and high subsonic). That no longer seems to be the case. I bought a Spectrum N scale 2-8-0 earlier this year and am in the process of making it look more Southern Pacific like. It runs superbly (or at least it did before I started working on it). There's not much in the way of steam detail parts available for N, unlike HO, so you either have to make your own or leave it off.  When I get a little farther along (SP style train indicators, blowdown spreaders, etc), I'll post some pictures. Somehow, I lost the whistle since I needed to move it from the steam done, so I had to make something that resembled a whistle.

You may have to register at Trainboard to see the photos linked below, I don't recall. I'm a member so it's not an issue for me.

You also might want to check out Russell Straw's work for some inspiration (including several loco bashes): http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/585 The T&NO GS-1 in this picture: http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/81281 was done using a Con-Cor GN S-2 as a starting point.

There's a fellow that's also scratchbuilt a B&O S-1 in N scale. The photos of that as well as more of his work can be seen here: http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/member.php?uid=4676&protype=1

Hope this helps.

Mike

I'm not saying go HO, but I have noticed you mention this a fair amount  - and seem to always come back that the summary execution your local group would punish you with as a big reason not to (not the only one, I know).

Chris, IF going HO would make you happier at home, than go HO. I don't see why you can't still run with the N-folks, especially as you already have equipment and experience in the scale. If they are that  closed minded, well, that kind of speaks for itself.

I would hazard to suggest that as you haven't built the big layout yet, now would be the time to take a real objective look at the choice of scale.

As I've said before, I would much rather prefer the size of N from a layout standpoint, but from a modeling standpoint, it just too small (for me).

So I'm not saying switch scales, but if you're the slightest  bit interested, now might be the time to consider a move.

I really enjoy the steam era.  I was planning to build a N scale railroad based on a small Milwaukee Road yard, circa 1948.  What killed my enthusiasm for the project was my realization that I would not be able to get a decent 0-6-0 in N scale, plus the expense in time and money to build a large enough fleet of steam era freight cars.   Now I'm back to HO.

When I still had them, I was very happy with my Kato 2-8-2s.  My MP 4-6-2s were pretty decent too, though they started a little fast for my taste.  As I mentioned though, I think the real challenge for N scale steam operation is finding a decent switcher.  If your prototype used 2-8-0s, 0-8-0s or even went to diesel early for switching, I think an operations oriented N scale layout is more viable.

Putting aside the peer pressure issue..

HO offers:

An interesting range of track and coupler products I would like to try

• I would really like to use sergent couplers. I love the idea of how they work and the appearance is great.
• I really want to be able to spike rail to wood tie to keep cost down and provide an enjoyable track laying pass time. I would also like to try out the range of track products CVT offers.
• I would like to be able to lay scale sized rail.. code 70 and code 55.. for an older theme layout.

Sound

• Sound possible in far more diesel applications
• Steam chuff synched up
• Factory installed sound on more models

Better quality turn of the century Steam

• Road specific details
• More reliable mechanisms
• Size allows enjoyment of mechanism action
• Models exist for earlier time periods

HO problems (for me)

Lack of run in my space

• Even reducing the number of scenes the scale distance between locations will be very small creating that "never really going anywhere" feeling.
• Train lengths must be smaller and start to look less and less realistic, even in an earlier time periiod.

excessive compression in my space

• Buildingings and scenic feature have to be made smaller which can often lead to tiny industries that couldnt load a boxcar in a year being spotted on a regular basis
• Small buildings tend to give whimsical look which, while I admire artistically, I have no interest in myself..
• Yards tend to lose distinctive character of their prototype when compressed into smaller space. For instance, the distinctive spacing and long curves of St Johnsbury, Vermont or the interesting ladder arrangements in Burnswick, Maine.

Radius turnback size an issue in my space

• N scale has a key "feature" which I feel makes using larger scale plans foolish.. that you can turn around with a broad radius curve within reach in distance. That is.. a peninsula that has 2' on either side allows a turn-back radius of 21" with easements, massive in N scale. HO and larger scales require blobs and/or turnbacks that are under-sized.
• Turnback radius has a direct impact on aisle arrangement for which the smallest width of the room becomes critical. In my case, the 13 foot width of the room would cause some pinching to occur in HO without going to a less desirable (for my space) around the walls option.

One of the things I really have to grapple with is what kind of operating session is a given for me. In my space I can make an enjoyable layout for a couple of people in HO. If I try to do something that can involve, say, 5-6 people then I am going to have some comprimises. While I enjoy them, I do not want the heavily compressed layouts that I have operated on where there is no real mainline run and most of the operating time is spent because the switching is so damned hard. 

There is also an economic issue. I have a lot of N scale stuff and can share resources with friends. HO I have to start from scratch.

Really, what I want, is a 25x40 space to build HO.. I already told my wife thats what I want for the next house.

Chris

I figured you had run the numbers.

There is also an economic issue. I have a lot of N scale stuff and can share resources with friends. HO I have to start from scratch.

Really, what I want, is a 25x40 space to build HO.. I already told my wife thats what I want for the next house.

Chris

If the latter point is an achievable goal, isn't continuing N scale now actually less economic?  Wouldn't it be cheaper to begin accruing the large scale equipment now?

Scarpia, I have this conversation with myself regularly, but Chris' Do's and Don'ts are pretty accurate for me.  Its a space issue matched with what I would like and unless I come into some unforeseen large sum of money, we are here to stay.   In the space I have, I just can't make enough work in HO to satisfy me.  The biggest compromise in N is the availability of equipment for my era.  Lots of locos available for modern era, but not so much for the earlier time.  I think, though, that I will get enough equipment to run the layout, I just have to be patient and jump when something is made available.  Ultimately, if I switched to HO, I would buy all kinds of equipment, but I believe I would not be satisfied with the layout I would build and it would all collect dust in due time.  That is why I stay in N.  But I guess this is about Chris, not me.  

That 25x40 space is at least 10 years out.. if we move.. its a chicken whose egg has not been layed never mind hatched..

There is a chance that when we build a garage we will also expand the basement under it for another 16x20 space onto what I have, but I am not counting that chicken now either.

Chris

I guess this is about Chris, not me. 

Its about anyone struggling with the same kind of N vs HO scale choices...

I know I can keep a number of people busy in my space with HO.. but it would have to be some kind of switching layout and I want some open scenery..

Chris