David Calhoun

Two thirds of the old railroad has now been dismantled. I have managed to save a good number of items and am looking forward to starting the reconstruction at some point. In removing things, I noticed that flex track I had glued to the roadbed came away clean with a large scraper underneath and slight pressure to "break the bond." In doing so, I rescued a useable item that will help save a dollar or two. This has led me to several questions I'd like some advice for and before I violate the 5P Rule (Prior Planning Prevents - - - -  Poor Performance) once reconstruction begins.

1. I've noticed that most everyone uses sub roadbed on risers attached to the basic framework rather than directly to the framework. Given that there will only be a small stream and a culvert along the line, and that no trains will be passing under one another, what is the optimal riser height on which to place the sub roadbed?

2. I'm planning on using cork and/or homosote to support main line tracks and just transition to the sub roadbed for yards and sidings to give them slightly lower height. What is recommended to use to attach the cork to the sub roadbed?

3. Obviously, you want to give the tracks stability. What trackage should you or should you not spike down to the roadbed? I must have pulled up 10 million spikes and destroyed miles of flex and regular rail when trying to salvage things.

4. Lastly, I've heard a lot of individuals say that rail joiners don't provide good connectivity electrically and that you should solder everything. True? Not True? In between?

This is the third layout I will be constructing and I've learned a lot from mistakes; however, I'd like NOT to make mistakes and have to learn more things unnecessarily. 

Thanks for your input.

Chief Operating Officer

The Greater Nickel Plate

Reply 0
stevelton

1. The riser height is really

1. The riser height is really up to you. As you said, no streams or deep rivers, so the only thing you would want or need below track level is rolling scenery hills. How drastic do you want rolling hills to be? Planning for future changes to the scenery, and make the risers come above the frame a little higher than you think, that way if you ever want to add a deep river gorge you already have the space between the frame and subroadbed to do it.

2. I like using some type of DAP caulk, Something that is clear or paintable. Then use T-pins or nails to hold in place, and heavy books or other weight to keep it pressed down.

3. Again, with the caulk, and using the T-pins to hold it and weight to hold it down until the caulk sets up. However, dont use the caulk near switch points! The caulk is a pretty good adhesive, it holds well, but you can still pry up the track without much damage. The caulk will hold the track, then the ballast and glue will do the rest.

4. I would highly recommend NOT soldering rail joiners! The metal rails need to expand and contract. A better option is to drop feeder wires and solder one to each piece of rail. Your power bus should follow under the subroadbed, so keep the feeders short, and use a large gauge bus. This way you have a soldered connection to each and every rail, but the rails are still loose enough to move.

(Male Voice) UP Detector, Mile Post 2 8 0, No defects, axle count 2 0, train speed 3 5 m p h,  temperature 73 degrees, detector out.

Reply 0
ChagaChooChoo

solder every rail to something....

A good rule is every piece of rail is soldered to something else.  Either another rail using a rail joiner, or a feeder wire.  For example, maybe you don't want your turnouts quite so permanently installed.  Use rail joiners but don't solder the turnout to them.  Then have rail feeders in all the right spots to power the whole turnout.

Just my 1.1 cents.  (That's 2 cents, after taxes.)

Kevin

Reply 0
wp8thsub

What to do, what to do...

Quote:

Given that there will only be a small stream and a culvert along the line, and that no trains will be passing under one another, what is the optimal riser height on which to place the sub roadbed?

Optimal varies.  Allow for sufficient space below the track for the desired landscape features.  I have roadbed in some areas that's directly on the benchwork with no vertical clearance, and others where the track is a foot or more above the benchwork on risers.  It all depends on the scene.

Quote:

 What is recommended to use to attach the cork to the sub roadbed?

Various methods work.  I've used white and yellow glue, as well as adhesive caulk.

Quote:

What trackage should you or should you not spike down to the roadbed? I must have pulled up 10 million spikes and destroyed miles of flex and regular rail when trying to salvage things.

I secure every piece of track somehow.  Where I've used spikes, I use only small ones like Micro Engineering "small" spikes.  These tend to come up easily with the track if you use a putty knife or other flat bladed instrument to lift the track.  I have flex track and turnouts that have been salvaged and reused several times despite having been spiked at regular intervals (i.e. every few inches).  Bigger spikes or track nails make the job tougher and don't look very good.

I now use mostly caulk to install track; acrylic/latex sealant as opposed to adhesive caulk.  Again, track can be easily pried up and reused with no damage.

Quote:

Lastly, I've heard a lot of individuals say that rail joiners don't provide good connectivity electrically and that you should solder everything. True? Not True? In between?

Rail joiners can't be relied upon for long-term electrical conductivity by themselves.  I strongly believe in maintaining solid rail alignment and solder almost everything.  I do leave expansion gaps here and there on straight track.  I have a feeder to both rails every six feet or so (no more than about two pieces of flex track before another feeder).  If you don't want to solder most of your rail joints, provide more feeders.

 

 

Rob Spangler MRH Blog

Reply 0
LKandO

Variable as needed

Riser height - what the others say plus I'll add another twist to the storyline. Most think of taller risers for deep scenery. I instead lowered the benchwork.

My terrain gradually transitions from farmland flat to deep in the Allegheny mountains as you follow the route. I have two decks so vertical spacing is a big concern. My upper deck benchwork makes two 3" drops along the route to allow the scenery to get deeper as the line gets further into the mountains. Deck-to-deck spacing is preserved where deep scenery spacing is not needed. 2" above benchwork plane is zero elevation point in the flatlands. 5" above benchwork is zero elevation entering the mountains (rolling foothills). 8" above benchwork plane is zero elevation point deep in the mountains. Additionally, I have two areas where creeks drop below the benchwork top in the flatlands. The benchwork rails are cut out to accommodate. Steel strapping reinforces the benchwork across the cutout areas. Lower deck staging is under the mountainous upper deck (far right in diagram). It is run-through not fiddle. The design has the same vertical clearance over staging as does Rob's layout. (Yes, Rob, I did ask you that question for a specific reason. I'm copying )

risers.png 

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
nsparent.png 

Reply 0
Ironhand_13

Amen to rail joiners.

My layout isn't that old (maybe?..it's about 3-4 years from bench-work/ track to now) and I've had to go back and drill some small holes and do feeders were I HADN'T thought ahead (5P rule did work in all cases where followed).  Not a big deal, but still a pain having to strip my bus and do the connections...on my knees as I have about a 4-foot track height.  This really came into play when I replaced some turnouts recently.  Went with live frogs- most new turnouts worked fine but some revealed the flaw of not following the 5P Rule. All new joiners were soldered, but flaws revealed themselves on the first turnout after about 3 days of testing, and I had to do the Great Pain of feeders-after-the-fact.  The following four new turnouts were done with feeders ready-to-go. 

 

 

-Steve in Iowa City
Reply 0
messinwithtrains

Rail joiners ain't all that, electrically speaking

When I built my layout, I soldered all the rail joiners in curves but just used plain rail joiners in straight runs, and used widely spaced feeders. Worked fine for five years, until this last winter when I decided to paint the rail. Suddenly I had dead spots and was dropping new feeders - apparently the electrical connection across some rail joiners was more tenuous than I realized, and the paint flowing around the joint was enough to break the conductivity. So, lesson learned, I second the notion that every section of track should receive power though soldered connections, be it feeder-to-track or soldered joints.

Reply 0
Ken Kaef

Rail joiners and spikes

Hi David,

I have always soldered two lengths of flex track together when laying track, this helps especially on curves. Then the alternate un soldered joints will be plenty to allow for expansion.

Also I drop feeders from every piece of track including turnouts, but I count two lengths of track soldered together as one piece of track.

I believe in using plenty of spikes to hold the track firmly in place. Then for road bed I simply use 3mm (1/8") cork on particle wood. It is noisy but with modern locos this does not matter as much and Ballast often cancels out other sound proofing any way. 

Ken

 

 

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

Reply 0
David Calhoun

Ducks In A Row

OK - thanks for all the info. I'm finishing up the dismantling this weekend (Peggy has a conference out of state for 2 days - oooh steaks and beer) and should be able to "set" the first of the framework. After that, I plan on laying out the track (Xerox pieces) on the sub roadbed to mark the cut lines and figure the position of the risers to be used so they don't fall where a switch machine should be. Then, we'll go from there.

Chief Operating Officer

The Greater Nickel Plate

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