If Portugal used standard

If Portugal used standard gauge this could change the way intermodal transport is handled in Europe, but i don't believe it would be cost effective to put the whole truck on the car, as the tractor could take a trailer to the terminal, put it over the car and then pick up an inbound trailer, freeing the tractor to earn its keep by pulling as much cargo as it can... Could be a solution in Brazil too, as it won't require cranes or ramps, being much cheaper to adopt (piggyback traffic is rare in Brazil due to lack of infrastructure and dominance of road transport), then again the trailer would go alone as many tractors in Brazil are owned by its driver. It would even be better this way as a tractor trailer composition in Brazil can weight over 45 tons, above the capacity of the eco-picker...

Obrigado pelo aviso e abraços do Brasil!

Daniel

Hardly a new idea

Early intermodal trains used standard flat cars, spotted against a ramp and with ramps between them.  Circus trains are still loaded and unloaded this way, as are a lot of track maintenance equipment.  Drive on, drive off, and no need to separate every car.

I also find myself wondering how much trailing tonnage the design could handle.  I've run intermodal trains with over 8,000 tons.

Yes, but you still need a

Yes, but you still need a ramp and some switching to get the cars spotted at the ramp (and facing the right way) and if you load only the trailer the tractor has to "bridge" a long train to get to the trailer (in reverse) and then drive off. The ramp is a dedicate infrastructure. This way you only need a concreted yard and the train comes in, split the cars while going forward, unload, load again (faster than using a crane or ramp, since multiple cars can be serviced at the same time), the motive power backs into the train and put the cars together again, then move to next destination. As I said earlier this may not be a "one size fits all solution", but is a hell of solution for places without the infrastructure as commonly found in a US terminal.

Daniel Kramer

I will not explain it better,thank You

Thank You Mr Daniel

I will not explain it so good and simply as You did , regarding the gauge with this system it´s not need to change the wagon between different gauges simply the wheels sets, but they are equipped with the gauge that customers ask

second I must tell that I didn´t invented this wagon or I work at this factory  I´m a train lover that makes US and PORTUGAL N scale and when I found this wagons I thought that I must do this waggon on N scale and show the real one to everybody that also love trains.
There are two versions:

the WHOLE

http://www.metalsines.com/imagens/entire.png

the MULTI

http://www.metalsines.com/imagens/multi.png

Always in first class.
Carlos Rebelo

One Thing

One thing I've always wondered...

Why don't they use knuckle couplers (or some variation of them) over there?

George

couplers in Europe

Europe uses buffers and chains as standard coupling since way before the invention of knuckle couplers. In some equipment (ICE, TGV and others) the have special couplers with brakes and electrical connections put together. They have tried to reach an agreement on a standard knuckle coupler, but haven't reached any agreement (several countries, several opinions...). Since buffers and chains have much less strength than knuckle couplers the towed weight is limited, so some heavy trains (ore unit trains) are equipped with Russian SA-3 knuckle coupler so it could have a greater efficiency. You may look into the prototype and see that MU is relatively rare in europe an when it exists rarely more than 2 locos are used due to lack of coupler strenght...

Daniel Kramer

Thanks!

Thanks, Dan, for the explanation!

Ah! The wonders of mindless bureaucracies!

George

More about couplers in PORTUGAL

In some Portuguese trains ( fuel and coal trains ) they use knuckle couplers

http://www.flickr.com/photos/valeriodossantos/5523614380/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gil_stcp_monteiro/5095814795/sizes/l/in/photostream/

The special couplers are called Scharfenberg

http://www.railway-technical.com/Scharf-Coupler-Dwg.gif

Always in first class

Carlos Rebelo

Carlos, I was unaware of the

Carlos, I was unaware of the use of schafenberg couplers outside passenger trains. It makes sense using them for hazmat cars (since it couples without pneumatically, without the need for impact), but the lack of standard coupler (or compatibility) will hurt the flexibility of operations, since a local train cannot tow tank cars and any different car... It is also quite limited in strength, and helps little in allowing greater towed tonnage. The SA-3 does not equal janney knuckle couplers in terms of towed weight, but then DPU is almost always used in heavy trains using janney couplers, and SA-3 equipped trains rarely even use helpers.

Daniel Kramer

contacts about this wagon

Hello All,

does someone have the contact dates about this waggon?

I would love to get in touch with them for a photo serie.

Rgs

USA Shortlines

This type of  transport could be useful for rural delivery of goods. farm produce trailers could be driven on the trains without additional handling. Local goods could be delivered and distributed to rural communities without additional handling or special facilities. There is potential in this type of freight handling for innovation. Instead of a big city freight hub, and the last leg  going by truck. A load or loads could be dropped at a local siding and one truck could deliver the load(s) to the local industry. The local could now have a new lease on life,

Regards, John

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything. <> Nikola Tesla

The company is called Metalsines

And their contact is:

Quinta dos Pegos - Herdade da Brejeira
7520-901
Sines / Portugal

phone # +351 269 630 580

email geral@metalsines.com

So when is Micro Trains

So when is Micro Trains coming out with this modern TOFC?

I always suspect something

I always suspect something that has the words eco and green attached to it. Some things I saw that seem to counter these claims. The trailer and the wheels and suspension are hauled and in the rapid unload mode so is the tractor that pulls it. With a modern day container to compare to that is several thousand pounds of equipment that is dead weight on a train. If it becomes inter-modal it attacks the efficiencies of the container ship. It requires a cab and tractor to unload for each container or it will be unload uncouple go back load uncouple and all vehicles must be parked a maximum of one high. Containers can be stacked and moved when ready so they take up less room.

It is an idea and might make sense in Europe where distances are short. It is not likely to be of value for the international al trade unless one were to have a container a bogey and truck and ship all of them once the container comes off the ship. I would expect 25,000 to 40,000 lbs in this new vehicle would be the bogey and truck which are non cargo hauling while on the train.

Fascinating idea

ANother technological flop?

There have been lots of variations on this theme throughout the years and so far they all seem to have failed due to one simple reason.....They are too complex.

Look up Modalohr, Cargobeamer, Flexiwaggon, etc. In North America you had the Flexi-Van pushed by NYC but also use by other roads, CSX was involved in developing the Iron Highway in the mid 90's but never went ahead with it and it is now used by CP in Canada as the Expressway service between Toronto and Montreal. This system uses a ramping system similar to the Eco-Pickers.

It is one thing having a crane or piggypacker in a major location with mechanics available but if something like this breaks down away from this sort of center then who will fix it? The local mechanic would have no idea.

It requires a cab and tractor

Rob, the idea behind this car is to improve trailer-on-rails efficiency, not to use it for container service. As you said, a portal crane or a reach stacker is much more efficient than container on trailer.

Just remember this is a TOFC-like approach to intermodal.

Paul, in Europe "rolling road" trains are made up with at least one passenger car for truck drivers, the idea is that instead of having a long road journey using diesel, wearing the truck/tractor trailer, its driver and cutting into their on duty hours the driver takes the the truck/tractor trailer to the nearest rail loading station, goes off duty in the passenger car and resumes duty for the final part of the haul.  If the train leg of the journey is somewhat close to the required off-duty time then is a win-win for the trucking company, since if the truck would have to stop for the time it spent on the train somewhere along its route and the truck would have a higher mileage in it, meaning more diesel spent, more maintenance costs, component wear (tires, suspension, brakes).

ECO-PICKERS

Sorry  Graeme Nitz but when you said Flexi-Van are you talking about this ?

[attach:fileid=232704_4_7r3Xvfuvde9+691//9k=]

compare this with ECO-PICKERS it´s the same thing that compare sugar with chocolate

Did you saw the video ?  

Regards from PORTUGAL

Flexi-van

Actually flexi-van is even worse than your picture ncPortugal, since loading and unloading the "vans" is accomplished using a rather unusual and highly specialized "commando" tractor. These tractor units had a hidraulic operated 5th wheel that raised the front axle and allowed the whole tractor to turn on the spot. the usual 5th wheel (should we call it 6th wheel now?) has to be lowered out of the way so a piston could push the box into the railcar. The commando trailer is so specialized that I would be really impressed if any were street-legal!

Here is a gallery of these weird contraption at work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jnos363/5082152589/

Regards,

Daniel Kramer

Reality

This system requires 2 times the joints in the train line as conventional cars.

It probably works well in Europe where they run small trains.  Not so much in the US where they run larger trains.  I would like to see how long it takes to load and unload a mile long train.  First it will take about 2 miles of track to load/unload a mile long train since you have to separate the truck length cars by about a truck length to get them on/off the cars.  Then every single car and bogie set will have to be separated (time, time, time).  Since all this stuff rolls there will have to be some sort of handbrakes set on each piece as it is detached and then handbrakes released when it is coupled back up..

EDIT:  Actually it will take 3 miles of track to load/unload a mile of cars if you want RORO, because the bogies are between the cars, you will need a truck length of space between the bogies and the car to get off, a truck length for the car, then a truck length of space behind the car to get on, then the next set of bogies.  That adds up to 3x the original train length of space to unload/load an entire train.

What restrains the truck in the well, what keeps it from moving back and forth when the train sets the brakes?  Particularly a concern if the well is designed for truck plus tractor and there is only a truck.