railandsail

Does someone know an accurate history of the HO model Rivarossi Allegheny 2-6-6-6??

Where was the original model constructed?

Were there other manufacturers subsequently involved?....not just other owners or distributors such as Hornby and Walthers, but actual manufacturers?

Were any of these built in China, with perhaps different motors etc?

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0
duckdogger

I think all the H-8s have

I think all the H-8s have been made in China for Rivarossi. Mine is from the 2011 release but I am not familiar with the productin history.
Reply 0
railandsail

Forgotten Subject Thread

I forgot all about this subject thread. I just recently went looking for the history of the development of this model locomotive which is what brought me back to this subject.

Basically I have trouble believing that this model locomotive was originally created in China. I was wondering if the original design (and maybe tooling) was created in Europe?

I did find this tonight,...

 

What Really Happened To Rivaross

 

Quote:

TRAINDOC

Oct 24, 2004

Rivarossi. was owned Alessandro Rossi.

The company fell on hard times in 1979 when their US distributor AHM ( Bernie
Paul) basically shafted them on orders for Rivarossi loco's and rolling stock
he never took delivery on .Forcing Rivarossi into bankruptcy .In 1980 Rivarossi
did some work for Con Cor . But the motor change and other upgrades were not
much of an improvement over the earlier Rivarossi/AHM line. It was not until
mid 90's did Rivarossi go back and redo the motor and chassis again. But again
looks vs pulling power lacked. It was not until recent. That now bank
controlled Rivarossi battled with the former owners and creditors. The bank
reps hated the former owner and vice versa. They moved the company from Como
Italy to another part of Italy. They produce the Allegheny but no major changes
to the US line were made after that. The battered Rivarossi company was being
beat down by the likes of Athearn,Bachmann,Broadway Limited.Finally with rising
production costs and labor strife in Italy Rivarossi shuts the doors on the
Italy plant ceasing operations and declaring themselves again bankrupt.Hornby
is supposed to be completing the purchase of parts of Lima SPa including
Rivarossi but this may be the last we will see of the Rivarossi line as we
know and love it. Love them or hate them Rivarossi was a class act for years. I
am the owner of 300 Rivarossi loco's .

 

Quote:

 c2002 the US importer folds leaving debts greater than the capital value of
Rivarossi.
10/2004 Hornby buys most of the dies (including the US and European ranges) and
ships them to China.

Reply 0
railandsail

TCA's history

http://www.tcawestern.org/rivarossi.htm

Quote:

In 2002, Rivarossi released a Chesapeake & Ohio Allegheny 2-6-6-6 HO gauge locomotive. Rivarossi always had a tendency to concentrate on 'big steam' such as the more well known American steam locomotives like the the UP Big Boy and Challenger, the SP Cab Forward, and the NYC Hudson, so this was one more example. The list price was in the range of $300 - $400. The Allegheny came without traction tires, which were commonly found on all other locomotives from Rivarossi. However, they could be purchased as an option. Again in 2002 the US importer of Rivarossi products folded leaving debts greater than the capital value of Rivarossi. Operations were ceased completely in 2003. On December 16, 2004, Hornby announced the acquisition of the well known European model train manufacturer Lima S.p.A., along with certain assets of the Rivarossi, Jouef, Arnold and Pocher ranges. Hornby moved Rivarossi train production to China. Walthers became the primary US importer of Rivarossi products.

 

This would seem to indicate that the origination of the Allegheny did not occur in China,...nor possibly the initial production models??

 

 

Reply 0
railandsail

Interesting history of a Model Train Builder

http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Alessandro_Rossi/Allessandro_Rossi_Goodbye.htm

 

 

Reply 0
railandsail

No interest?

So there is no interest in this subject,...no other owners of Allegheny locos??

I have at least 4 of these 'monsters' and love the detail on them. I only wish that a manufacturer would do the C&O H7, but I rather doubt that will happen considering the current market conditions.

...the H7,   https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/co-h7-loco-ho-scale-in-modern-plastic-12207503

 

 

Reply 0
CandOfan

inteersting

I have two of those Alleghenies, and the story is of interest. I too would like an H-7, but I did just break down and break a piggy bank to buy a brass version. I'll have to steel myself to open it up to convert it to DCC/sound, though.

Modeling the C&O in Virginia in 1943, 1927 and 1918

Reply 0
Virginian and Lake Erie

It is easy to open up the

It is easy to open up the 2-6-6-6s. To convert to DCC is as easy as plugging in a decoder, it has a socket. If you want to do sound it will be no more difficult than any other locomotive as there is a large tender for speakers. Below is how to open one up and do an install. There is a series of posts on my club blog starting on page 11. There are also videos of the locomotives pulling and pushing a train of over 100 cars that are weighted from one to two oz over the NMRA standard, on both my you tube channel and the posts that follow the one on locomotive prep.

Locomotive prep

I was at home helping my wife who had sprained her ankle on Friday and Saturday morning and missed Saturday's meeting but got to the club for the last regularly scheduled hour of the Saturday morning session. Now the guys were taking out some of the junk from the demolition efforts and had removed quite a bit. There is still more to go and Bob A. was working on some plumbing but was unsuccessful so it will be continued later. I only did a small amount of construction work and volunteered to get a pair of channel locks and free the improperly soldered joint before the joint cooled and was asked if I was referring to the real tools or those gripers on the end of my wrists. The rest of the guys thought that was quite funny.

With no construction work going on I thought it would be nice to go over a couple of locomotives that I have been wanting to run on the layout. Some of this was due to some comments by other posters wanting to see one of my coal trains with a steam locomotive on the front and a pusher on the rear. So I thought I would do some testing and get a couple of DCC ready locomotives decoder equipped and prepared to run. A lot of things say ready to run right on the box, I don't believe it.

-650x488.JPG 

Now in the photo above you will see one AG class 2-6-6-6 masquerading as a C&O Allegheny type in a box. From left to right there is some Kapton Tape, a Digitrax 2 function decoder rated for I believe 1.5 amps continuous and 2 amp peak. Four of my contact cleaners and lubes although only 2 were used in this case, Neverstall, Labelle oil, Labelle grease with pft, and Atlas Conductalube contact cleaner and lube. Just the last two were used on this locomotive. There is also my coupler box, tweezers, Trip pin pliers, coupler spring tool , dental pick, scissors, assorted screw divers, some labels but I went another way, and a pair of cradles for holding the locomotive.

Not pictured nearby is a computer with decoder pro on it and some tracks connected to it. In addition a small numbered drill bit was used to clean out the holes for some piping on the scale length cab. And a Dymo label maker was used with some yellow post it notes for my redneck renumbering operation. The locomotive numbers will need to be displayed on the cab so operators can determine what address to enter, and at this time I will need something of a temporary nature  as decals will be used to rename and number the locomotives in the future.

Keep in mind these locomotives have only had the boxes opened to see if they were inside and in one case run on dc for a distance of about 8 feet to see if the loco worked and that was many years ago.

-650x488.JPG 

In the photo above you will see I am starting on the tender and swapping out the proto coupler for a Kadee whisker coupler, I have already given the coupler a slight bend with the pliers and it turns out it was just fine. I used the screw and coupler box lid that came with the locomotive and after installing had a nice strong coupler that functioned freely and was at a good height and did not sag or have lots of vertical play.

-650x488.JPG 

In this picture you can see the coupler awaiting the installation of the cover and screw, the scale length cab, the apron that fits between the cab and the tender, the left hand seat for the cab and the discarded centering spring and plastic coupler. Also you can observe the bottom of the tender and the trucks and we will go there next. I wish to state at this point I only remove and adjust one part at a time where the trucks are concerned and with the drivers so as should anything odd happen the polarity does not get compromised.

-650x488.JPG 

In this photo you can see the wipers that pick up current from the wheels, and that they are making good but light contact with the respective axles. There is only a mild amount of tarnish on the wiper and I have already wiped the excess lubricant out of the area with a tissue. The next step was to lightly relube the contact points with conductalube and put a tiny amount in the area that the axles go through plastic on the trucks. Key to this is tiny amount, using the needle applicator the desired amount is the least you can get to transfer from the needle  to the axle, if you find you have applied too much the corner of a tissue or paper towel will pick it up. After you have lubed the truck contact points and wipers you can reinstall the lower portion of the truck and replace the screws and move to the next truck.

-650x488.JPG 

Now to apply an overly used phrase from years gone by, "What is wrong with this picture?" This is how this locomotive was when disassembled as you can see the wiper on the leading axle of the tender was not installed properly at the factory but is easily fixed when doing the inspection, cleaning and lubricating operation. To correct this the front wheel set just needs to be picked up and then replaced with the wiper in the correct orientation as can be seen in the case of the rear axle. The same procedure was used as on the rear truck and then the cover was reinstalled.

Now we will move to the locomotive itself and continue with our cleaning and lubricating, install a decoder, this one is one that is so easy Bruce P. won't have to tell us how. There will be some photos that will be shared among more than one operation. First we will begin by removing the boiler shell, then the cab, then install the decoder, then we will route the three wires under the seats in the locomotive that go to the tender, replace the seats, the new full length cab will be replaced then with the boiler shell off we will begin going through the drivers and lubing the contacts and last we will use a tiny amount of conductalube on the shafts at the ends of the motor before we install the boiler cover. There was one little issue with this operation and the hole for some piping was not large enough to accept the piping and needed to be cleaned out with a small drill.

-650x488.JPG 

Here we have the locomotive with the shell removed and the cab removed. Starting from the front of the locomotive and going to the rear we have the screw that holds the shell to the weight, the cover which represents the feed water heater, the apron that goes between the locomotive and tender, and one of the locomotive seats, the apron pins go under the seats in a little slot. Looking at the bell on the shell the open end points to the box that accepts the cover (feed water heater) and contains the screw that secures the boiler cover to the threaded boss that can be seen at the very front of the boiler weight. Inside the cut out portion of the boiler weight we have the front engine and the drive shafts connecting it to the motor and flywheel followed by the drive shaft connecting to the rear engine. Behind that is the circuit board that contains a jumper in the eight pin socket that will be removed when we plug in a new decoder and then the back head and the lights that simulate a fire in the fire box.

-350x263.JPG   5%20copy.jpg 

On the left is a photo of the model cab interior and on the right a shot of the prototype cab for comparison. The photo on the right I took while I was at the B&O museum in Baltimore MD. The photo on the left also shows the decoder that has replaced the jumper plug and it really was easy to do. If you can plug in a lamp you likely have the skill to install this decoder in this engine. The wires also have a bit of memory so once the decoder is fitted into the cavity in the boiler weight it tends to stay put rather well. The large screw that can be seen under the cab is the one that holds the cab in position on the locomotive.

-350x263.JPG   -350x263.JPG 

Now here we have a couple of photos of the top and bottom of the rear section of the locomotive. The photo on the left shows the seats installed as well as the apron and the wires run under the seat so they can later connect to the tender as unobtrusively as possible. The large looking screw in front of the seats will secure the cab. The photo on the right shows the very tiny amount of grease applied to the large black gear and the drivers axles that will be given a touch of conductalube where they make contact with the frame. To the right of the photo can be seen the draw bar screw and spring as well as the hole underneath the spring that contains the screw that holds the cab to the chassis. It is easy to remove and replace the draw bar screw and spring to facilitate adjusting the cab screw with out damaging the spring. The tender truck is just above the foam cradle and will be reattached when the cover plate is replaced on the rear engine. This particular locomotive has been one of the easiest to clean and inspect I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with.

-350x263.JPG   -350x263.JPG 

In the two photos above you can see the rear truck and the points that will be recipients of conductalube as well as the front engine and the coupler pocket that easily accepts a kadee whisker coupler. The front engine is lubricated the same as was the rear and the front truck had the wipers touched with conductalube as well.

-650x488.JPG 

All back together and nearly ready for a visit to decoder pro to be followed by some testing on the layout with about 100 coal cars.  Before that can take place a hole in the cab that accepts some piping needs to be enlarged a bit so the pipe will fit in the opening. You can see the pipe next to the cab in the photo above that is at an unnatural angle and bent. Once the hole was enlarged a wee bit it fit inside just fine and easily straightened to the proper shape. Oh and did I mention there are two of these renumbered 900 and 903 that will be run with one on each end of a coal train of around 100 loaded cars going up a curving 2.5% uncompensated grade? This will be filmed on Tuesday night. In order to get the locomotives to pull as I felt they should I tested them with about 6.9 oz of lead on the outside of the boiler and found it did not seem to be benefiting to the amount desired. I may still add a bit of weight. Next a test was made with Bullfrog snot and it was found to be very helpful in eliminating slipping and dramatically increased pulling power. The Bullfrog treatment was applied to the wheels with the large gear on the axle on both the front and rear engine all others were left untreated. A single locomotive will take 90 cars up the grade with out any major slipping but will lose traction with 94.

The second locomotive is drying now. Initial tests today confirmed the feasibility of running a long heavy train with a steam engine on the point and another on the rear. Worked so well that it now has a video test scheduled for Tuesday and I should get the video ready to add to my YouTube channel and our club website as well as putting it on here for everyone to see if they desire to. Hope you guys enjoy the latest entry be back with more soon.

Reply 0
railandsail

Thank you for that Rob. One

Thank you for that Rob.

One of my Alleghenies is a heavily weathered one that I don't want to screw up when I go to adding DCC & Sound

Reply 0
railandsail

Rob,....sound/speaker installation? & TCS installation guide

@Rob,

Just looked back over that wonderful posing of yours and didn't see where you installed and speaker(s)?

TCS installation guide,...also found this nice pictorial guide to going inside the loco,..
https://tcsdcc.com/installation/ho-scale/2018

Should not be any great problems with servicing this engine,...having both your guide and that of TCS. 

 

 

 

 

Reply 0
railandsail

copied posting, but did not get photos?

I made a copy of that posting you made above Rob (for future reference when I get to taking a few of mine apart for DCC and sound installation), ......but for some reason the photos did NOT show up in my copy??
 

Then I just rediscovered the original posting here today in this older discussion,...with the photos. So I will have to make a note to myself how to find it again,..and/or how to make a proper copy of it.

 

 

Reply 0
Allegheny1600

I followed the introduction

I followed the introduction of the Rivarrossi Alleghenies before the models were available and purchased one as soon as possible.

If my memory serves correctly, the initial releases were indeed, made in Italy and the “blurb” stated that these were the locomotives Rivarrossi produced to show what they were capable of and to lead the way in the amount of included details. The aim was to be better than brass!

This was also stated to be the first model steam outline locomotive with a “diesel type” drive, I.e. a central motor driving both engines via separate gearboxes.

My own model has survived several changes of modelling interest, my wife won’t let me let it go and I’m very grateful to her for this, most of my C&O stuff has been sold unfortunately. Anyway, my 1633 is currently packed away due to a house move but I’m sure it includes a spare pair of drivers fitted without traction tyres. To be exchanged with the ones fitted, according to the review in “Model Railroader” in 2002.

Edit: a bit of Googling shows that, after the takeover, Hornby produced Alleghenies numbered 1629, 1637 and also a Virginian 900 class AG number 907

Cheers,

John

Reply 0
Virginian and Lake Erie

Brian, this is in response to

Brian, this is in response to your Email. I am seeing the pictures on here so I am guessing that you have found them. The entire entry is on page 12 of my club blog with pictures of the process. Later you can watch several videos of the locomotives running a nice coal train around the club layout in the pages that follow the locomotive tune up.

I did not install speakers or sound in the locomotives yet. If you were so inclined I would recommend putting speakers in the tender and running the speaker wires from the decoder in the locomotive to the speakers you put in the tender. You should have room for some very nice speakers in the tender.

Reply 0
railandsail

@Rob

Yes Rob I finally discovered the version with the photos, thank you. I was quite surprised when I opened the PDF file I had saved on my computer and found it did NOT have the photos. I'm not a real computer knowledgeable person, so sometimes these matters baffle me. I had really wanted to have that article of yours handy when i finally get around to working on my (3?) Alleghenys.

And yes I do recall that video of yours pulling that VERY long coal train. I don't think my new the layout would support that sort of length...ha...ha, .....but it is interesting that these locos have that capability.

Reply 0
smadanek

Rivarossi Today

Interesting that what appears to be the Allegheny still appears in the first page of the current Rivarossi/Hornby International catalog.  In their catalog pages the only North American prototype steam engine listed for 2021 is the HO Heisler.

https://uk.rivarossi.com/

Ken Adams
Walnut Creek, California
Getting too old to  remember all this stuff.... Now Officially a COG (and I've forgotten what that means too...)
Reply 0
railandsail

Made in Italy, or China

I was going thru a couple of my Allegheny locomotives (3 of them) to decided on which one or two I might list for sale sometime soon.

When I looked on the 3 boxes containing the locos, all 3 of mine said, " Made in Italy"

64331-1.jpeg 
 

...and the paper documents inside indicated 2001 in 2 cases, and 2002 in the other.

64630-3.jpeg 

 This time frame was when Rivarossi was being consider for acquisition by Hornby. Does this mean my engines (which were purchased very early on) are an actual product of Italian craftsman?? 

Do later boxes claim, "Made in China" ?? (does anyone have box handy that could check this?)

 

 

 

 

Reply 0
Douglas Meyer

All of mine (both) say

All of mine (both) say Italy..

-Doug M

Reply 0
railandsail

I was taking some more photos

I was taking some more photos today, and looked at the bottom of a few of my locos. I have several that say 2001, and one that says 2002.

age(307).png 


All of them have this same logo with "made in Italy"

age(308).png 

Reply 0
railandsail

Traction Tires

Did the Alleghenys come with traction tires/drivers. I have one with, and several without.
 

What is your experience Rob? Would you recommend them,...and/or is bullfrog snot a better bet??

EDITED: I just found this posting of yours over on another subject thread
 

 

Quote:

Standard fair is a traction tire on the locomotives. I changed drivers and added bulfrog snot to the geared wheel on one of the geared wheel sets. It picked up so much crap from the rails I have since removed it and may change back to the traction tire equiped locomotive if my attempt at adding weight is unsuccessful in reaching my goals.
Big Boy verses Allegheny

Rob in Texas

 

 

Reply 0
Steve Probst steve_p9999

Rivarossi Allegheny traction tires

Brian --

From the photos you posted on one of your threads about the Alleghenies, it looks to me like one locomotive has a traction tire, and the other locomotive has a grooved wheel where the traction tire used to be.

My Allegheny lost its traction tires early in its life, and I remember reading that that was a common experience with these.  the locomotive happens to run fine with the grooved wheels without the traction tires - though I added Bullfrog Snot recently and have not had a chance to test the results.

-- Steve

Steve

Reply 0
railandsail

Bullfrog Snot

Did you see Rob's experience mentioned above?

Quote:

It picked up so much crap from the rails I have since removed it

 

Reply 0
railandsail

Traction Tire/Wheel sources?

Quote:

may change back to the traction tire equipped locomotive

If one were to decide on the traction tire route, how would one go about getting new driver wheels for that loco that would accept traction tires?

 

 

Reply 0
railandsail

traction tire Issue

...from another forum,...

Quote:

Rivarossi Allegheny traction issue

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/278107.aspx

Reply 0
railandsail

duckdogger I think all the

Quote:
duckdogger

I think all the H-8s have been made in China for Rivarossi. Mine is from the 2011 release but I am not familiar with the productin history.

Have you checked your box to see if it says where it was built?

Reply 0
railandsail

Made in ?.......

Do we have any other Allegheny owners that might check their boxes and/or locos for the "Made In...?"    notice??

 

 

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