Think of a background flat

Think of a background flat building. It may not be completely "flat" but have a bit of depth (from 1/2" to a few inches). It also has no back (or just a play sheet of styrene or sheet of black construction paper as a back.

Now turn this building 180 degrees so the plain (or no) back faces the aisle. Voila, a foreground flat. Rick Fortin has them on his Santa Fe layout. They're handy for creating an industrial canyon in a limited space. On Rick's the fascia is extended upward to match the back of the building. Some might choose to detail the interior of the building and cover the back with a sheet of plexiglass to protect it. This allows you to look through windows and loading doors at the tracks - an unusual perspective.

The drawbacks of foreground flats include

it can be hard to see where to spot a car at such an industry (and hard to know where to put an uncoupling pick) since the building is in the way. A tall foreground flat makes this especially tricky.

since you need to reach past the building they can be prone to damage if there are many details on the roof.

btw. MRH will be running a layout report/interview of the progress on Rick Fortin's layout sometime in the future (but I can't say when with certainty).

Cheers,

Charlie

The light comes on!

Ahh, now I understand.  I could see where that could be useful on a layout.  Thanks Charlie!

They also create modeling opportunities

If you extend them in from the layout edge a couple of inches, you can try your hand at detailing interiors just for the foreground building.  I've seen several layouts where this has been done, and it often creates the illusion that the layout is more, and more prototypically, detailed then it really is.

Interesting

I wish I could say I have seen the technique before but I don't think I have.  If anyone knows of an article or website with pictures where I could get some ideas from what others have done I would appreciate hearing about it.  I get the idea from the descriptions here but of course a picture is worth a thousand words.

Thanks in advance!

Fascia Flats

Here is a couple of photos of my "temporary" building flats that I have put on my section of the wharf. I just posted the photos so that youcan get an idea what they are.

Building flats

Thanks for the pics Nick, although what you have there are what I would call backdrop flats.  The Fascia flats are used out at the layout edge apparently.  I was hoping to see what others had done with flats along the front edge of the layout...hey is that a flasher in the upper R.H. window?

Thanks again for the pics of your flats.

fascia flats

Fascia flats are like the background flats we're familiar with (and Nick's pictures show), but mounted instead at the aisle side of the layout, not the backdrop. I'm sure that Charlie will have documented it well when the article comes out, but in the meantime, here are a couple of photos from a guest op session at Rick's posted by John Rodgers. These at least suggest what Rick has done.

link to the photo page.

You can use the same technique with a bit deeper modeling. Here in Los Molinos, Rick has combined the fascia flat idea with an industry rooftop that is smooth and sturdy, providing a work surface for crews. Really slick.

link to the photo page. In this case, there is a mirror mounted against the backdrop just below the upper deck that allows the crew to see exactly where they are spotting the car at the fascia flat industry (an idea I poached from the Reid brothers, who use it over a hidden staging yard on thei Cumberland Valley). We use numbered doors and "sure spots" to add realism and increase operating interest.

These fascia flats provide more industry in the same space by allowing us to use both the backdrop side and the aisle side of the benchwork for industries. They are not used so much that the effect becomes repetitive or gimmicky, but I think it has worked out well.

You can see more of Rick's work on his layout and for others at his LayoutBuilders site.

By the way, "fascia friction" is an issue few have talked about, but it's very important to consider with our always-too-narrow aisles and our slightly-too-big crews. Besides extending the fascia smoothly upward for these fascia flats, Rick has recessed car card boxes and turnout controls so there are no protrusions into the aisle anywhere along the layout.

Somethings off

Your pics didn't show on my machine, and your links sent me to the dreaded Forbidden Access error message.

The photos are funky, sorry

Something's funky and I don't have any more time to fiddle with it, sorry. If I refresh my browser a few times, the photos sometimes vanish, but then if I click either link, the photos reappear. Anyway, use the links ...

First photo I linked to, Del Norte at Sambone

Second photo I linked to, Merchants at Los Molinos

MODERATOR NOTE: It appears there's some trusted zone issues with the location of these photos out on the internet so we've pulled a copy onto our servers. Sometimes certain external servers are located such that they look like a possible untrustworthy source so the content isn't retrieved. It's rare but it does happen - we've noted this problem before with pbase.com-hosted images.

I have a few spots in one of

I have a few spots in one of my designs that will call for flats on the facia. In N scale, you can have a one or two story building up front and not really create too much of a lip. I think it helps to give a suggestion of whats in the space your standing in (besides yourself, of course!).

Chris

Ricks Fascia Flats

Byron, thanks for the links to the images, they worked flawlessly for me.  I can see where this technique if used sparingly could be really good.  The flat work surface in the one photo seems like a great idea at that location.  Initially I thought that a very detailed roof would be the way to go with the fascia flats but now I am getting the idea that detail could be more of a problem on the roof tops.  I like the idea of having a "window" to the interior of a fascia flat showing a detailed loading scene and throught the open loading dock doors you could see the car being loaded on the tracks on the other side.  Indeed spotting cars and uncoupling would require consideration in the planning of such areas but I sure like the idea!

Thanks again!

The Flasher

 Blue,

It was not meant to be a flasher in the window but now that you mention it...

A word of caution, although

A word of caution, although it should be obvious. If operations is a big consideration for your layout and you host a small group of operators, the necessity of reaching over and around any large fascia buildings to do uncoupling creates almost a certainty that sooner or later their is going to be significant damaged done to these structures. You'll note that in the preceeding photos all the operators were in T-shirts. This is virtually a necessity to minimize constant snagging damage to the fascia structures, a comment I offer from experience. It's an easy practice to follow in summer but a lot harder to keep enforced in cooler weather.

NYW&B

.

Short sleeves vs. long sleeves

All the operators are in short sleeves because the group visited when it was warm. When properly designed, there doesn't seem to be a major issue for fascia flats and shirt sleeves. Of course, dragging loose long sleeves across cars in a yard or finished scenery is a problem on any layout. The fascia flats don't seem to make a big difference in this regard, but then again, they are used sparingly on the layout.

I can see where this

Yes one has to be aware of the potential for damage due to reaching and snagging.  Not a huge issue in my case as I will likely never have a group of operators.  This will be a family operated layout so we can wear T-shirts year round for operating sessions. )

Providing for manual uncoupling is something that would have to be considered during planning for the fascia flats.  A strategically mounted mirror could serve to aid those operations as has been mentioned.  Spotting and uncoupling could aslo be aided with CCTV if the circumstances required it.

Design for support

I wonder if folks aren't thinking of these the wrong way. Forget detailing the roofs, instead design them for stability and support - make them strong enough so folks can lean against (on) them safely. It may even make access to tracks further back easier, as you can lean on the front buildings. Heck, even pad 'em!

Design for support

Scarpia,

Exactly!  That is what I came to realize from this discussion.  The padding is a good idea too!

I like the idea of a shadowbox effect so the interior of the fascia flat is visible through a plexi-window.  That's where the detail belongs in this case, IMO, not on the roof tops.

One of the layout designs I

One of the layout designs I am working on includes a yard in Brunswick, Maine. One of the industry spurs comes off to the right of the yard toward the facia. Its actually an old coach yard that got turned into a switchback siding. Funny how the wisdom is switchbacks are not realistic yet I keep running across them in my prototype. Anyway, I digress..

That location would be a perfect one for the facia building flats.. but I thought to take it a step further I can have the cars go inside the one that is, I think, a beverage distributor. The operator will be able to spot cars inside the building using a view window into the building.. where there can be details like boxes, forklifts, etc. Could be kinda cool.

Chris

Aisle side flat construction

I noted that on Rick Fortin's layout the aisle side flats are backed by 1/4" masonite making them relatively robust. A 1/4" sheet of plexiglass would also work if there were building internals detailed enough to display.

Cheers,

Charlie

I thought to take it a step

Chris,

Yes this is the sort of thing I am envisioning, although I wasn't thinking about cars INSIDE a warehouse, which is a great idea too, IMO!

Isle-Side Flats/Industrial Canyons

I too have isle-side flats along one of my industrial branches where the benchwork is only 18 inches wide, if that. The "industrial canyon" effect sure is neat...........I'll try to take some photos of of what little I have mocked up tonight to share with y'all.

Ralph

Pictures are the bees knees!

Some pictures would be great Ralph.

Thanks!

How is that to operate?

Are the industries on those flats? Do you have any trouble with operation, like reading the car numbers, that sort of thing?

My N-scale group collectively shook their heads when I mentioned having my paper mill against the facia and the operator looking down into the canyon formed..

Chris

Chris - I see what you mean,

Chris -

I see what you mean, but if you have bill boxes, and the cars are in order as they stand (I know that is asking a lot!), there shouldn't be much of a problem. Maybe a box per spot? I dunno, never thought much about the "problem".

Ralph