New Layout Room - Design Help

Nice space!

Charlie had a nice post explaining how he had his layout on it's own circuit so he flip the breaker off when he leaves the layout room.. it seems sensible advice. My layout is powered through an on-off switch that controls everything including layout outlets for things like my DCC power supplies.. which in turn controls all track power, etc. My layout is plugged into the wall by a heavy duty cord so I can claim it is an "appliance". I do not recommend this approach for a larger layout.

Based on my experience, I would want "shop" outlets and work lights on a seperate circuit from the layout lighting and power. I would want them both to be 20 amp. My current situation has all on the same 15 amp circuit which, sadly, is shared by a refridgerator. When I use the vacuum and the dehumidifier kicks on while the fridge is on.. boom! I am plunged into darkness.

I would consider having at least some cieling lights on the "shop" circuit so you can turn those on and off from the door and provide work lighting to the area. This way you can completely power down the layout and still have light and operate power tools.

An alternative would be to have a single circuit.. but have several outlets controlled by a wall switch so you can power down everything connected to them..

Chris

Stan,

Since you are starting with a brand new layout I hope you are going to be going with DCC right off the bat. That means that you're probably going to want several plugs (I have two large power strips with on-off switches) clustered in the area that your control and boosters will be. If you can arrange for them to be on their own 30 amp breaker, that's ideal.

 I've got two strips because one controls the layout - and the other I can use while the layout is off for other tasks like soldering and running a computer that has Decoder Pro on it.

 The layout strip has the following (working from memory) plugged into it:

 EasyDCC CS2 controller, 2 Booster3s (which are more than 3amp I believe), a programming track power booster, the wireless receiver, and a couple of 12v DC wall-warts that combine to power my yard tortoises. I've also got a PSX-AR autoreverser but I don't believe it has it's own power supply. One of these days I may add another Booster3 to the equation.

So that's 4 or 5 wall warts, which take up a lot of space on a strip, and a couple plugs for the MRC 16v AC power supplies for my Boosters. All effectively off one wall plug. I didn't have an option to rewire the garage, so both power strips are actually fed off a ceiling 2-plug fixture that normally would supply power to a garage door opener. This is why I use the 3+ foot industrial power strips.

Okay, that's power central.

I also recommend having a few spaced around the layout room (maybe 12 feet apart or so) for use during construction.

Based on my experience, I would want "shop" outlets and work lights on a seperate circuit from the layout lighting and power. I would want them both to be 20 amp. My current situation has all on the same 15 amp circuit which, sadly, is shared by a refridgerator. When I use the vacuum and the dehumidifier kicks on while the fridge is on.. boom! I am plunged into darkness.

Having the circuit described above on a 20 amp breaker is not the answer.  The reason the breaker is tripping when your refrigerator, vaccuum and dehumidifier are all running is that the ampacity of the wire is being exceeded.  Putting a 20 amp breaker on the circuit would be dangerous.

In Canada, by code a refrigerator requires it's own 15 amp circuit.  The dehumidifier would probably warrant another separate 15 amp circuit.

Using higher rated circuit breakers without having installed wiring with the ampacity to handle the load is a fire waiting to happen.

Always check with a qualified electrician who is familiar with the codes for your country and area.

By 20 amp circuit I mean all of it.. not just the breaker. When I get around to rewiring I will be installing new 12 ga. wire, outlets, and switches that are within 20 amps. Until then it would be illegal (and dangerous) to put in a larger breaker.

The fridge will be on its own circuit when I am done sharing the line with nothing more then a few network devices in the same area. I didnt mean to recommend putting a 20 amp breaker on a line with 14ga. wire and 15 amp rated hardware.

My point was just that one can hit the top of a 15 amp circuit in a layout room pretty quick.

Chris

Yes, you want to talk to a professional electrician.

Here's some considerations.

I have a mushroom layout that's 1100 sq ft equivalent (if it was all one deck) and the layout itself is powered by one 15 amp circuit, but the layout lighting takes four more 15 amp circuits.

Today with compact florescents instead of low wattage incandescents, I could probably get by with two 15 amp circuits for the lights instead of four.

The reason why the layout doesn't take much is because the track voltage is only 14V, not 110V. Because of Ohm's law, as you lower voltage, available amps go up. My one 15 amp 110V circuit has an current capacity of over 100 amps at 14V.

My layout has 1200 feet of track total, and a 360 foot mainline (includes the lower deck branch line run). The layout has six 5 amp power districts, for a total of 30 amps at 14V. I still have over 70 amps of un-tapped capacity at 14V!

Oh yes, and I also have a 1 amp tortoise power supply for staging, but each tortoise uses a few milliamps, so that's not a problem - and that 1 amp is at 12 V - again it's against the 70 amps that's left so not a problem.

It's your lighting that will be the concern, since it's more likely to take quite a bit of current. And with a mushroom, you *have* to light the lower deck or it will be dark as can be under there.

The other consideration will be power tools used during the layout construction and maintenance. I have one extra 15 amp circuit (total of 6: 1 for layout, 4 for lights, 1 for power tools) run around the layout room so using power tools is easy.

I had a professional electrician install a separate large sub-breaker in my main panel and then he installed a sub-panel in the layout room with the six 15-amp breakers in it for the various circuits I've listed.

 Thanks for your input everybody, I knew I would get some good info here! Funny, I didn't consider running power tools during construction, in my mind my layout is complete!  LOL

Jeff, a big "Yes" to starting off with DCC, I just can't see switching over from DC to DCC sometime in the future.... too many headaches!

Joe, you wrote "the layout itself is powered by one 15 amp circuit, but the layout lighting takes four more 15 amp circuits.... plus one for power tools"  WOW! Good thing I asked, although your layout is considerable larger than mine will be, I would not have guessed a total of six circuits for your empire.  

Thanks again,  this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

Stan

PS   My brother is a  journeyman  electrician.... he should come in handy.     :O)

Per the number of outlets along the walls, local code may dictate that for you. Generally they never want to see an extension cord over 6 feet, so an outlet wired up every six feet works out great.

If you're not doing the work yourself, and/or not comfortable with the work at hand, do contact an electrician. They're expensive but worth it. Right now, at least in our area, labor and material costs are very low.

I think the lights on their own circuit at the very least would be a good idea, and I like the thought of them on a dimmer switch.

Generally they never want to see an extension cord over 6 feet, so an outlet wired up every six feet works out great.

That is true, however that means an outlet every 12 feet rather than every 6 feet.

Chris, I didn't mean to suggest you would place a 20A breaker on a 15A circuit.  I was however concerned that someone who didn't know better MIGHT get the wrong impression from your previous post.  You cleared that up now.

What Joe did for his layout is the way to go!  As he says the layout is not the large draw, it's the layout lighting that sucks the power.  Having a circuit for tools is a good idea too.

If you feel you have the knowledge, skills and tools to preform your own electrical wiring, do so.  Just be sure you have a permit and an inspection so you will have insurance if there is ever a problem.

HOw are you going to light the layout space? FIgure # of fixtures times the power per fixture(watts). Divide the total lighting watts by 120V to get the current the lighting will take. Multiply that by 1.3 for a safety margin. Then figure out how many 15 amp circuits you'll need for the lighting. Err on the side of more breakers/circuits rather than fewer. Allow a separate 15A circuit for DCC boosters, on layout lighting, wall warts for tortoise power, etc. If you have shop tools then a separate 15A breaker hooked up to wall outlets is a good idea. Don't plug a skill saw or saber saw into the same outlet that runs the DCC system!

I'd advise against leaving the ceiling open. It will likely become an ongoing source of dust in the layout room Dust is not your friend and certainly not the friend of model train layouts. I'd recommend drywall on the ceiling rather than accoustic tiles. Pain all drywall before beginning construction - walls sky blue, ceiling either blue or white.

One switch to turn off the wall outlets and the train power in the room is a good idea (dont leave power on the tracks while the room is unoccupied).

The best way to wire the ceiling lights is to know where the layout will go and where the aisles will go then figure out where the lights will go and put boxes in the ceiling at those points. Next best is to have a few designated boxes in the ceiling and run conduit to the light fixtures.

This describes a sort of extreme electrical configuration. If you can afford it great. If not then do what you need. But DO figure out how much power the layout room lighting will take and make sure there are enough breakers to meet that need.

Cheers and good luck (and take pictures while you're doing this and post 'em so we can see what you're up to!)

Charlie

That is true, however that means an outlet every 12 feet rather than every 6 feet.

You're thinking only in one direction; six feet also means out into the room. Note that I'm not quoting code, simply making an observation.

For what it's worth, I'm running the electric myself in my future room. Outlets are run every 4 feet, 14 inches above the floor in most places, above workbench height where appropriate. I've run a sub box, as mine is no where near the main breaker of the house. Currently I have two 20 amp circuits running in there, one for lighting and one for power.  The sub box is for my own safety and convenience when working on it.

Hope this helps!