Nice article Nick. The light

Nice article Nick. The light functions are not as important to me because of my era, I only need a couple of functions, but I really like the idea of easy separation of the shell from the chassis. I think you have really hit on a great idea with this as it will make for more compact decoder installs. It is easy to see the big gain in space you have achieved. This looks like a real winner for converting older units I have accumulated over the years, I suspect you have made my life easier.

I gots me one

I gots me one of these! Thanks Nick! LOL!

Seriously though, I can see in the future this being a very useful tool in decoder installations.

Eight Decoder Buddies

While Nick was here in my area, he helped me to work on my Proto 1000 models, (pre-Walthers) and swapped out the Proto boards with Decoder Buddy boards, for a much easier  (for me) 21 pin decoder installation. We did five of the models in less than 30 minutes time, and I purchased three more Decoder Buddy boards for locomotives that are still packed away in storage. They are the best way in my opinion to convert those older models to modern 21 pin decoders and sound.

I am really pleased with the boards, and they were a perfect fit in my Proto 1000 models. The factory Proto 1000 boards would have required cutting traces in the printed circuit board ,and hardwired installation of decoders with only eight wire decoders on those old factory installed boards. Thanks to the 21 pin decoders it is now possible to have increased decoder functions and lighting outputs like for ground lights, and step lights using miniature led lights. Thanks again, Nick, from your friend Jim.

The height of the Decoder Buddy pins

While I don't think it is mentioned specifically in the article, the 21-pin header is 3mm tall, meeting the provisional NMRA standard and allowing the SoundTraxx decoders which have stuff on the bottom to mount flat. 

Question

Can an older, non-sound, 8 pin decoder be plugged in until I can afford a sound decoder?

An adapter would be required

I've seen 21-pin to 9-pin JST adapters  but not to 8-pin NMRA. If you haven't bought that 8-pin decoder yet  there are non-sound 21-pin decoders as well. 

I have a decoder now.

It is an 8 pin and having trouble with an Athearn F59 PH1, Coaster that I can't get running. Smoked at least one decoder. Was thinking of changing out their board for a Decoder Buddy with the intent of later getting a sound decoder when (and if) I can afford one!

Going 8-pin-to-21-pin

What I'd recommend is you get a 21-pin LokPilot, $19.19 from Litchfield:

https://www.litchfieldstation.com/product/ho-dcc-decoder-basic-by-esu-lokpilot-standard-dcc-21mtc-interface

While 21-pin to 8-pin adapters do exist, they're hard to find in the US or Canada. I can find them on eBay, but the cheapest price, with shipping, is ~$15 and it looks like they're coming from the UK:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Slim-21-Pin-DCC-Adaptor-To-Fit-8-Pin-Decoder-To-21-Pin-Models-Ideal-4-TTS/264184547705?hash=item3d82a04979:g:BGYAAOSwNhpa1vkb

The problem with the 21-pin to 8-pin adapters is stay alive soldered to the Decoder Buddy pads won't work once you move to an 8-pin adapter.

Your other option is to hardwire the non-sound decoder in using this 21-pin-to-9-solder-pads adapter ($6):

http://dccinstallsandsales.com/product_info.php?products_id=794

But again, stay alive won't work via this adapter. You need a 21-pin decoder for the Decoder Buddy stay alive solder pads to work. That's why the best non-sound 21 pin option is the 21-pin LokPilot.

Thanks for the Suggestions

Appreciate both Joe's and Jeff's insights. Will have to ponder the decision.

"Can an older, non-sound, 8

  If price is a problem you might look at the Econami decoders, they cost about $60 and don't need this buddy board. For $20 more you can add a plug in keep alive set up. You can get Iphone 4s speakers from Bill Brillinger for $1.50 each if you by four. I put two in my latest installation and they sound fine.. ....DaveB 

Why not DC?

Bottom of page 8 of the article warns that Decoder Buddy won't allow DC operation. Why not? Seems to me that the buddy connects the decoder to all the points of the loco that would otherwise be hardwired. Was there a deliberate design effort to prevent DC?

DrJolS. 

Dummy plug needed

The most obvious thing I can see is that there is no way to get the DC voltage to the motor and lights without a dummy plug of some sort to jumper the pins together  

I suppose if someone made one of those (come to think of it I may have one off a non-decoder ScaleTrains.com unit ) it should work. But it isn't set up that way from Nick. 

. .

Exactly.. Scale Trains provides a 21 pin dummy plug (blind plug) for DC only.  Do not confuse this with DC/DCC were the DCC decoder is permitting the use of DC via CV29. 

Decoder Bud does not provide a dummy plug, so no DC  only capability.

Marc

Thank You, Marc

I think you nailed my confusion. With difference clarified between DC only operation and DC/DCC operation, my faith is restored that the Decoder Buddy allows DC running if CV29 is set that way.

I guess that "DC operations," the phrase in the mag article, means DC only.

DrJolS

Neat idea

A neat idea, nicely done.  If there’s space in the loco this is a great way to retain a bit more flexibility for swapping out decoders when the next gen super duper sound decoder with some new feature you just can’t live without comes on the market.

Will it fit in a low hood switcher like an MP-15 or SW-1500?

@ Ken

Hi Ken,

Not sure about the SW1500.  I have a SW1500 in Athearn Blue Box that I am eyeing for a sound install.  It might just make it.  I have an NCE non-sound it there now.  There might be an Atlas S4 on the way to play with also.  Which manufacturer were you thinking of?  I know width wise and height wise it will go into an Alco.  I’m not sure about the height of the EMD switchers yet.  I’ll keep you apprised.

Thanks for asking.

Nick

@ John (TOC)

Hi John,

One thing I realized after the fact was that a 21-Pin connector is a 21-Pin connector and it is well defined.  A nice side benefit is that if you start with a Decoder Buddy you instantly have multiple non-sound (read as less expensive options) and multiple sound options.  It’s like the 110 outlet in your wall.  You can plug a number of different appliances into the wall plug.

A couple extra dollars in front can make a much easier upgrade in the future.

Nick

DC

To be perfectly honest, I didn’t pursue DC options because of the number of decoder options available as well as it did not seem to be a great mix with LEDs and constant lighting and so on.  I appreciate your input if there are options available for DC.  Thanks Marc and DrJol and Jeff for your thoughts.  I’ll have to play with this some.

Nick

@Nick

Nick, the MP-15 I have is an athearn genesis, and it will get a decoder swap in the not too distant future.  And chances are I’ll end up getting at least one more EMD switcher.  So I’m curious to know your results if you give it a try.

- Ken

. .

Take a piece of paper and measure and cut it to 2.20" x 0.67" (56 mm x 17 mm) . Now take the piece of paper and you have something to test feasibility of install.  Use the Decoder Buddy as a guide. The standard for  21pNEM decoders is  15.5mm wide.  So if the decoder fits tight, the Decoder Buddy may not.  TCS wow 21p is 17mm wide.

Marc 

ESU, Soundtraxx and TCS fit nicely

You can see photos of ESU Loksound, Soundtraxx Tsunami2 and TCS WOW-Sound all installed on the Decoder Buddy here:  https://www.scalesoundsystems.com/product-page/nix-trains-decoder-buddy-motherboard

This is a really great product that will ease and cleanup many installations.

SW 1200 & SW 1500 installation....

with his speaker, TCS Keep Alive and cab view unchanged.

Sorry, I haven’t got an easy link now.  I’ll replace it as soon as I can.

Go to Scale Sound Systems on the web.

When you are there on the top of the page click GUIDES.

In the lower right hand corner click the DOWNLOAD link.

JT does great installations with his superb line of speakers.  His upgrades are amazing!

Enjoy,

Nick

SW 1200 & SW 1500 installation.... (with link)

with speaker, stay alive and cab view unchanged.

This is the website http://www.scalesoundsystems.com/guides

JT does great installations with his superb line of speakers.  His upgrades are amazing!

Enjoy,

Nick