MRH

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Read this issue!


 

 

 

 

 

 

Please post any comments or questions you have here.

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Dullcote and Graffiti questions

Dear Gary,

Outstanding article, I will definitely be rounding up some donor cars and giving this a go.

Some questions:

- Is there any possible alternatives to Dullcote you might reccomend?
Sourcing Dullcote here in Aust is not exactly easy.

- Any tips to prep/spray Dullcote? On the few occasions I have been able to source it here, despite best efforts,
it's either ended up (presumably) too-heavy and forming a yellowish coating,
or too-thin and splattery, more like water-droplet pattern than thin continous coat.

I've read previously half-cryptic references to warming spray cans in bowls of hot water before spraying?

- Can the rust, fade, and grime coats be applied over commercial graffiti decals
(for those who don't feel comfy freehanding graffiti)?

- to emulate graffiti murals which have "been on the car a few miles, and gained an overlay of grime themselves", is it do-able to apply subsequent layers of grime/rust/etc over graffiti?

Again, thanks soo much for your efforts in presenting this article.

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

 

Reply 0
GaryChristensen

Dull Cote alternatives...

Prof Klyzlr: The Dull Cote* Q&A is a bridge that is often trampled in this hobby, especially amongst weathering enthusiasts. I cannot honestly direct you in purchasing the matte finish abroad, I might only suggest that you contact Testors* and inquire about foreign distribution of this product.

More to the point and personally speaking Sir,...I have tried MANY variations of artists matte or dull finishes in the decade that I've been model weathering and I have yet to discover a better alternative to Dull Cote* It would seem that the other versions that I have tried left me a bit frustrated or disappointed in many aspects of the finish. I will refrain from naming certain name brands here Prof. however some of the results I have noticed with some of them is an "orange peel" effect on the model when dispensed directly from the spray can...(which btw, is the way I prefer. Some modelers prefer to thin the DC and then run it through an airbrush). Some of the other disappointing scenarios that I have experienced with products other than Dull Cote* is...the lack of a dull finish and more so a glossy finish, due to perhaps not enough talc mixed within the lacquer ratio. It would seem that Testors* has the perfect mix of the two. When I Dull cote a model throughout the process of weathering, I keep the spray can held at approximately 6 inch distance from the model and I spray a VERY fine misting to protect and seal the layered work that goes into each project. Through trial and error over the years, I have found that ANY matte finish will curdle or thicken on the model when applied to heavily or at a direct, close range when sprayed.

As for any yellowing over time with Dull Cote*? I have yet to experience such an effect. Again,..I think light mistings of the product would reduce the chances of a lacquer yellowing over a course of time. I think that any finish, when applied too thick would render prone to yellowing as time passes.

I too have read and explored differing methods of "prepping": DC before application. The whole warming in a bowl of water proved nothing significant IMO. Since I employ a small space heater in my weathering project regimens, I also utilize the warmth emitted from said heater to sort of thin the DC within the confines of it's aerosol canister. One thing that I have found with Testors Dull Cote* is,...When a new can seal is cut away and is ready to be sprayed upon a model , I have learned that the can needs a very vigorous shaking to bring the settled talc from the bottom of the can to become sufficiently mixed with it's counterpart lacquer contents. I have actually had new cans of Dull Cote* leave more of a sheen instead of a dull finish when not properly shaken and or the interior mixture of lacquer and talc is off. It would seem that the BEST results that I have obtained from misting on a layer of matte finish from Dull Cote, is near the last bit of the contents within the can. I can only assume that the spray nozzle and tube have reached the final contents of talc that might have accumulated and settled in the bottom of the can. I have also encountered issues with matte finish (DC included) with "white specking". This is when the can sprays out white specks of talc onto the model and is the result of the lack of shaking the mixture of the can before application. Should this occur,..it is easily remedied and rectified by just an additional application. The white specking usually dissipates when a fresh misting is applied directly over it.

Despite only a few infractions that I have encountered with Dull Cote* Prof Klyzlr,..I have yet to hear or sample any other ample product or reasonable facsimile that delivers the decent results that Dull Cote* does.

As for your second inquiry Prof Klyzlr, I have never applied graffiti decals on any project that I have undertaken. However, I do apply other decals i.e. data, heralds, reporting marks, numbers etc. In certain instances and formerly as a general rule, I will weather the model initially and then add whichever decal (this can apply to graffiti decals as well for those who use them)...You can weather light mediums directly over them once they are settled and sealed into place with a matte finish. I have painted graffiti upon a model project and then returned after a misting sealant of Dull Cote* and continued with light washes of grime or added a fade with rust pitting, scratches etc. to give the graffiti the appearance of being on the car for a long spell of time. Along with a couple of tags on the featured SOO LINE car in the article, here is an example of that very processes results....... http://www.theweatheringshop.com/gsscb.html The vital factor in achieving these type of results IMO lies within the sealing of the graffiti work  with matte finish before weathering over the artwork. So, summarily, I would say yes to your question! Filth, rust and grime can be added directly over the graffiti if one desires the look of tags that have inherited a few miles in their lifespan on a freight car. I think doing such adds more depth to a project and tells a more defined story.

Thank You Prof Klyzlr for you questions and the feedback on this article..it is considerably appreciated! I certainly hope that you might be able to secure a few cans of Dull Cote at some point down under.

 

 

Gary Christensen

 

Reply 0
jonte

Has to be my favourite article in MRH to date

Another masterpiece model Gary, and an excellent 'how to' even I can follow! Thanks for sharing. jonte
Reply 0
GaryChristensen

@Jonte!

Hey! it's nice to see you are active here too Jonte! It is also nice to know that you find this article of some interest. I just hope that most find it somewhat easy to follow. At some point, I would like to explore a video version of these type of weathering demos. Thank You for such a nice reply.

 

Gary Christensen

Reply 0
wp8thsub

Neat- O

Seeing the process explained like this was very helpful.  Great job, Gary.

Rob Spangler MRH Blog

Reply 0
ctxmf74

"- Is there any possible

"- Is there any possible alternatives to Dullcote you might reccomend?
Sourcing Dullcote here in Aust is not exactly easy."

 

    Hi Prof, If you are willing to experiment I think you could find something at an artist supply store that would work. It might require an airbrush instead of a spray can but once you figure it out you won't be at the mercy of the dullcoat supply pipeline.                                                                                                                                                               As for your question about graffiti decals, I've used them as basic graffiti back ground between car ribs then painted over the ribs them to blend them in with no problems. Since real graffiti is pretty rough and ambiguous the model stuff doesn't need to be precise to look right. Look on ebay for inexpensive graffiti decals to experiment with...DaveB

 

Reply 0
GaryChristensen

Thanks Rob Spangler...

It is rewarding to hear this coming from a modeler with your talent!

Gary Christensen

Reply 0
Rick Sutton

Gary, you got me at the cover!

I've been hoping that one of the weathering shop guys would write an article and boy when I saw the cover of the August issue I knew my wish had been granted. I've practically worn holes in my computer screen gazing at the models on your website and I keep it bookmarked to show non model railroaders what can be accomplished by truly talented people.

 Thanks so much for the article............I plan on absorbing all I can and then getting my butt in gear and start weathering those cars that are just sitting there looking way too pristine!

Reply 0
GaryChristensen

Hello Rick!

It is very rewarding to hear that people like yourself find this article helpful. To be completely honest Rick, I find it extremely difficult to try and convey the process through mere photos and text. It would seem that a video presentation might lend to a more comprehensible understanding of the layering process that goes into many of these "extreme" weathering projects. If there is anything that you might find confusing (if you are paralleling the procedure) that I've shared here at MRH,..I am thoroughly open to answering any questions pertaining to whatever roadblock you might stumble upon that I might not have covered in this article.

 

Thank You for your feedback Rick,.it is most appreciated!

 

Gary Christensen

Reply 0
Tom Patterson

Wow

Beautiful work, Gary- just amazing, You have taken weathering to a new level. What you and the guys over at TWS are doing is truly inspirational. Thanks for taking the time to share your work with us.

Tom Patterson

Reply 0
JR59

Excellent Article Bro!

To follow a step by step Instruction written by one of the most talented weathering Artists out there was a great pleasure for me. You are not only a nice guy Gary, you are also great enrichment to our hobby.

Reply 0
George Sinos gsinos

Question on multiple clear coats

I'm just getting started and wondering about the purpose of the dull intermediate coats, Fixing the intermediate steps in place is fairly obvious, but why a dull coat as opposed to gloss? Is it to provide a bit of "tooth" for the next layer? Or is there another purpose? After multiple layers does the talc component build up make things a bit cloudy? I would think the intermediate clear coats would be clear gloss, with the final top coat providing the anti-glare dull surface. Not an argument or criticism. I'm just curious. I'm still getting things running and have not spent significant time on this segment of the hobby yet. GS
Reply 0
MikeC in Qld

Yes - excellent work and

Yes - excellent work and article, Gary Outstanding results! I love the haloing.

Interesting that you use acrylic over oil in places, but obviously the Dullcote separates them very well.

Mike

Reply 0
mikeconfalone

I second that!

Yeah, like Tom Patterson said.

Killer stuff Gary. Nicely done. Oh, and just to think what that SOO box USED to look like in fresh, white paint!

Mike Confalone

Reply 0
GaryChristensen

Humbled by the nice feedback!

Thank you very much for such nice feedback! This is a very commendable bunch of fellow enthusiasts that post here at the MRH boards!

TOM: I can only reciprocate with the tidings and the compliments. Your work is ever a pleasure to fix eyes upon and I can say without doubt that I am always looking out for posts of yours that display some of the finest efforts this hobby knows!

JURG: My long time friend and "brother"! It is also very encouraging to input through feedback. We have been down the same modeling road for quite some time now Jurg and admittedly,..it has been an awesome journey and friendship! I also view you as one of the coolest, nicest guys in our hobby. I hope your trip to Hungary with your family was laced with blessings and fun. I can honestly tell you too bro,..that the whole time this SOO LINE model was in the throes of progression,..I could not  help but ponder the thought, " I can't wait to see what Jurg does with this one when it show up in his incredible flicks!" Thanks again for such nice encouragement all through these years bro!

GS: There is absolutely no reason why you could not employ a clear gloss coat. In fact, many modelers apply decals using Future floor wax (which is highly glossy wax finish)...yet... upon completion of projects,...the final stage is set with a sealing of a Dull Cote* I think it just boils down to preference. As long as the artwork that is applied in layers is sealed between layers,..the point is rendered legit. I have never experienced (yet) any cloudy build up between layer mistings of Dull Cote* (mistings) perhaps the clutch word here. I think frequent, thick applications of a matte finish might cloud things a bit the thicker the application. I try to avoid excessive matte finish build up by merely spraying a fine misting over the artwork to seal it. I hope this is of some help and I agree that a gloss coat would suffice as a sealant between layers,..however the finale,..should always remain as a Dull finish with matte.

MIKE C: Another prestigious modeler that has my undivided attention and respect. I cannot tell you how many hours that I have burned down my eyeballs just staring at your photo sets. You obtain some serious skills and I am always on the lookout for your posts to take in some VERY serious model railroad eye candy! Keep up the outstanding work and keep those flicks coming  Mike! As for the two different mediums overlapping each other? I must admit that has been a trail of "trial and error" in the past to where The two did not mesh without Dull Cote in between layers. The results were always a dark black mess. This stands true as well with lack of brush cleaning in between layers,..another very important component to "making it happen".

MIKE CONFALONE: Hey!...how about that!..two "Mike C's" in a row!  Where do I even start in reciprocation to how I how feel about your Allagash layout and...well...pretty much ANY endeavor that has been laid down by your extremely talented hands. Your work is milestone material and I think at times that there are nary any words that could summarily describe it. I know of one that locks in immediately, ' INSPIRING"!!! I mean that Mike,..some of the utmost in inspiration lies within and atop the benchwork of your commendable layout! Thank you for the positive feedback on one of my projects and the article. I could not agree more Mike about what perhaps these Soo line Fond du Lac shops cars looked like before they reached this pitiful stage? I often considered that a cheap primer undercoat or overlying paint product loaned itself to the accelerated decrepitude of these 50'ers.... yeah?

 

 

Gary Christensen

Reply 0
George Sinos gsinos

Thanks

Thanks for quick reply.  That helps "clear" thing up.  GS

Reply 0
Joe Brugger

Nice work

As a '70s modeler, the full-boat weathering is rarely needed here, but it is great to see the step-by-step technique that allows me to add wear and rust marks. After a couple of years on the road, every freight car shows its "experience" and it's different in different kinds of service.

For people who can't find or don't want to use Testors Dullcote, Model Master and other paints lines for military models always have good flat, satin and gloss clear coatings and most of them spray well.

Reply 0
Ken Patterson

Easy to understand

Gary

Your the best.

The article was easy to understand.

The How to photos were great.

Well set up piece. This is one of the best in MRHM for weathering.

The "What's Neat This Week" Video that ran last year  on your work in this magazine has one of my favorite cars you did,in it........

The B&O Ichabod with the attractive girl on it.

Your work is so motivating by making it easy to understand for the rest of us

Thank You.. Ken Patterson

 

Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Outstanding

Really an excellent article Gary, and beautiful work on the model as usual.  Thanks for sharing your techniques in such a clear fashion.

By the way, in case anyone else is like me and couldn't wait to try this out, the Rustoleum flat brown color Gary used for the wheel faces and underframe doesn't appear to be a primer as the article states.  I found it under the normal Rustoleum paint colors.  Also, the camo color was called "beige" in the article, but if I'm looking at the right product, appears to be labeled "Khaki".  Not trying to be picky, but just wanted to help others out if they'd like to try to replicate Gary's great results.

Edit:  Gary later clarified that the camouflage color he used wasn't Khaki, but Rustoleum Sand, #263635.

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Dear Joe,Thanks for that,

Dear Joe,

Thanks for that, Rustoleum and what appears to be an offshoot brand, "DyMark", have only just appeared down here in the last 6 months or so. I've been driving myself (and the hardware store staffers) crazy trying to match-up/source the reccomended Rustoleum colors with the limited range available,
(if only so, having confirmed the color/shade,
I could then confidently ID a more-commonly-available local equivalent).

Chasing after an incorrect color name would explain part of the confusion we've faced...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
GaryChristensen

@Joe Brugger...

@ Joe Brugger: I have seen various stages of weathering on equipment during the 70's decade and it seems that something as corroded as this SOO boxcar was fairly uncommon. From most the photographs that I've seen of freight cars during that time frame, it would seem that grime and layers of soot and filth predominated. Unless you are adhere to an astringent weathered look for you models, I think one could modestly apply some of the techniques I've employed in the article.

@ Ken Patterson: Thanks Ken! Coming from you,..that is quite a compliment as I have admired your modeling and photography for years. If all gear cogs line up just right, by this coming weekend, I should be making a visit out to your place again, accompanied by Jeff and a few others I presume. Anyways my friend, thank you for your positive input on this article, To hear your feedback on" it's easy to follow instructions" is completely satisfying...if not vital. We'll see you this coming weekend.

@Joe Atkinson: Much thanks for the positive feedback and more so for the clarification of the Rustoleum paint proper names. It's kind of funny because, I am not one who does, or has submitted many articles that would be read on such a broad scale and I suppose it really didn't occur to me about the exact name of the paints used for the undercarriage. I do however understand now and I'm glad that you brought this up and added the correct names so that fella's like our friend Prof Klyzlr down under, won't spend valuable modeling time wasted on a wild goose chase throughout every hardware store in search of the paint with the correctly dubbed title!

 

Gary Christensen

Reply 0
GaryChristensen

Rustoleum nomenclature...

Joe & Prof Klyzlr: Here is the Rustoleum numbers and an itemized list of the name brands of other mediums that I employed for this project...

1. Rustoleum  "Flat Brown" enamel # 214085 ( I believe I thought this was a primer due to the fact that it was shelved in the auto primer section in the retail store where it was purchased)

2. Rustoleum  Camouflage "SAND" # 263635 (not Khaki)

3 Graham & Co. "Transparent Orange oxide" oil paint

4 Alpha Colors pastel sticks "Earth Tone" set

5. Various craft acrylics from Delta & Folk Art (Charcoal Gray, Light Ivory White and Burnt Sienna)

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

 

Gary Christensen

 

Reply 0
RSeiler

Hobby Lobby

You can get the Graham & Co. Transparent Orange at Hobby Lobby.  They also have pastel sticks, but by General, not Alpha. 

Randy

Randy

Cincinnati West -  B&O/PC  Summer 1975

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/17997

Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Sand vs. Khaki

Quote:

2. Rustoleum  Camouflage "SAND" # 263635 (not Khaki)

Thanks for the clarification Gary.  That color wasn't available where I looked locally.  I'll go back and update my earlier posts to avoid confusing potential buyers.

Reply 0
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