Look out they're going to crash!

Gomez: "Ya think so huh?

Gomez: "Beautiful, Beautiful!"

Mr Hilliard: "You meant to blow them up?"

Gomez: "Of course. Why else would a grown man play with trains? Do you want to blow the other bridge?"

Stoker

Nice Stoker! ...and this fits so well with the video on the "derailments" page!

I agre with you Joe.

If someone wants to just run trains for the sake of just running them, with no care for any prototype restrictions, be my guest. 

For me, if there isn't some form of prototype operating rules being applied, it just isn't fun for me.  It get's quite boring actually.

Ken L.

There is an in between too....

Of all the activities in model railroading, I enjoy building scenery most of all.  It's an outlet for my creative and artistic side.  In fact I look at a model railroad as a piece of three dimensional artwork.  That being said, even though  I occasionally like to put a train on the tracks and just let it run through my beautiful scenery while I putter about the layout room doing other things, I would grow bored with the hobby if that's all I did.  So I do pursue some form of operation,  switching cars, dropping off "loads" and picking up " empties". But theres a difference in what I do and what I see some others do which I can only characterize as being "obsessed" because in my view that's what it amounts too.  I'm not going to get any further into it than that because it always results in the same old argument and the "proto types" get their feelings hurt.  I'm just saying that it's not always one extreme  or the other.  I may not pursue operations to the point that Tony Koester does or to the point that you do Joe  but it doesn't mean that I'm just satisfied to run trains in a circle. Not that there is anything wrong with that either for those who enjoy it.

Michael

...

I understand why so many layouts get torn down right after they're "finished"...

But the layout JUST got GOOD, say the ops runners!!

Yes, but the masterpiece was done...and at that point, the artist has nothing left to do...except tear it down and do it again!!

I enjoy running now and then.  Ops, sometimes, though I sat the last two sessions out.

Is it just me or

is every forum required to have a Adams family train wreck clip post once a month?

Something original would be refreshing.

Required Content

Yes. It is a requirement. When I first explained to my wife where the long trestle would be placed she commented "is that where you blow up the trains?". So yes, Adams family clips are mandatory.

There should be a new term..

"Operate Railroader".  That is how I would "define" what I want to do with the hobby.  I HATE modeling.  If I had the money I would hire someone to build the layout, assemble the cars, install the sound decoders, and weather everything that I want and have it complete, and then have them hand me my throttle, and I would invite my friends and we would operate the railroad, following prototype guidelines. 

Most likely not that many people who are in this hobby would agree with me.  I might be the only one! But "modeling" is but a means to an end.  If you told me, I would have to destroy a layout once it's finished, unless there was a very compelling reason for it, such as the layout is not fulfilling the operating requirements, then I most likely wouldn't try building a layout at all.

This is why I am spending so much time with research and planning for the Ultimate P&A Layout, because I want to only have to build it once, and be done with it.  The Interim P&A Layout is just that, Interim, it is so I can get something operational "soon", and to test certain ideas before construction of the Ultimate P&A begins. 

Now, if the fun in this hobby for you is the actual modeling, that's fantastic. I mean it.  For me, it's just something that must be done to reach the final goal = Operation!

Ken L

 

Dear Ken, Respectfully,

That's the situation i'm in Prof Klyzir

Though I belong to one of the local MRR clubs, and they do have op sessions, it is BARELY what I would consider an op session. They do use (sometimes) switch-lists but that is the extent of prototype operations.  They have a dispatcher, but it's more like mother-may-I.  I have TRIED to get them to adopt a simplified version of Track Warrant, like what Joe Fugate uses on his SP (supposedly the layout is based mid-1970s as far as time), but only a few are interested in doing that.  It's "too complicated" for them.  They just want to run trains around the layout mostly.  And the other clubs are modular, and only assemble to layout at train shows, and they are not interested in prototype operation either.  There is a small group of people interested in operation, but no one so far has a layout.  And no one models a NYC prototype, or has the type of freight/passenger traffic that I like, so I'm stuck building my own layout.  Now if I lived in Northern or Southern NJ, or in the KC area, I most likely would be able to find a home layout to become a member of the operating crew and not have to spend the money to build my own.  But in the Niagara Frontier  region of NY, it's not just there.

Ken L

Thank goodness...

Finally... I have to tell you that I am getting tired of this mentality that if you don't run prototypical ops, then you aren't a "real" model railroader. It seems that there is a very visible and vocal minority that is pushing ops. While I have no problem with someone else enjoying it I feel that it has come across through many publications as the "modern and enlightened" way to model railroad. It took me quite a while to figure out my own "Model Railroading Philosophy", but for me it is an 80/20 mix of watching/operating. I am a Railfan first and foremost. Prototype or Model makes no difference. I love to be around trains and watch them do their thing. Secondly, I love nature or "scenery" in the model world. Thirdly, I enjoy researching the history of trains/railroads that I like. That's my top 3 if you will. I enjoy building scenery and running trains that I have a fondness for and just watching them roll through the scenery. My layout is a sort of time machine. It allows me to Railfan any train I wish in any location I care to model. Real or imagined. I do enjoy some general switching ops or activity at the engine servicing facility, but only about 20% of the time. I can not wrap my head around why people would want to do someone else's "job" for entertainment. Not saying it's wrong, but just isn't for me. The idea of not being able to run the layout without a "crew" is comical to me. And the idea of having a job board and signing up for jobs based on seniority is about as far away from how I enjoy this hobby as it could get. I fully recognize that others love that part of the hobby. I'm glad they do and they should pursue it. As long as they don't try to cram ops down my throat we'll get along just fine The beauty of this hobby is that there are so many ways that people can enjoy it. Carpentry,Electrical,DCC,Sound,Artistic,Scratch builder,Historical,Freelance,Automation,Ops,Scenery,Railfan,etc... None are right or wrong. Pick your favorite and enjoy.

Round and round

I have to admit I'm a "roundy rounder".  I seldom run my trains unless I am showing them to someone.  My 6 year old grandson runs them more often than I do.  I enjoy the build.  I will never have to tear it out because I built it in 8 foot sections, bolted together.  I can replace them one at a time as I have already done with a couple.

This kind of conversation is

This kind of conversation is a lot of why i get really quiet around rivet counting and OPs people. I like my trains. I'm an artist and I work in making art all day just about every day. I am serious about my scenery and my engines and my cars.I find many engines from many railroads to be really beautiful so I run them. I don't want to be told I shouldn't do that by some middle aged guy who has pronounced himself to be an expert on what I really should be doing, so, I stay really quiet. I don't want to show my layout at mini NMRA conferences. I'll just absorb what is going on around me. I will buy things, probably more so than prototype faithful people since I'm way more flexible.

I do run switching and picking up and dropping cars in specific spots. I'm serious about my trains and don't want to be told that I don't cut it with the big tough kids that do manly things. If I get enough of that, I'll just vote with my feet. I doubt the vendors want to hear that.

...

But then, it almost begs the question if they're really in it for model railroading, or for model people managing...

No Benny.. It's about modeling prototype operations!

It's not just about the models, but modeling a (miniature) transportation system that serves a purpose. To accomplish that you do need a crew.  You don't see a real railroad run by one or two persons do you?

For those that don't care for it, that's fine. It's not wrong for you not to do it.  But don't expect me to enjoy it either if it is devoid of important protoype operation benchmarks.

I sure would like to know where all these "ops people" who are somehow trying to "impose" operations on everyone else.  I do know some modelers that this is their focus, and they do advocate this particular type of modeling to introduce it to other modelers who might otherwise not know about it, but i for one don't know of anyone who is trying to impose anything. 

Ken L

 

...

That's what is great about this hobby!

That you can see trains flying by, while I see it as a real railroad, though reduce to 1/87th scale.

Ken L.

Follow the wire

Look about 150' to the side of the right-of-way. You'll see an enormous wire plugged into the bedrock. Follow the wire. Horrace can tell you about seein'em. 

Real Railroads

Real railroads are more than a mile or two long. There is nothing operationally realistic about the tiny section of track that can be modeled in the space and budget available to most folks, even on giant club layouts. You can pretend it is, but in the end it just isn't. I will stick by MRRing as a diversion and perhaps kinetic art rather than pretending that I am doing someone else's job. If I really get that desperate for pseudo-employment satisfaction I guess I can turn on Ice Road Truckers....(Not likely)

P.S: For those fascinated with railroad operations there are computer programs that actually DO simulate railroad operations and you don't have to look silly walking around with a clipboard pretending to haul pretend loads of wheat to the mill and pretend loads of flour to the bakery and then pretending that there is a problem if you don't get there "on time"...

Wind blowing

Hey chill out, I am just trying to add a little comic relief to the otherwise useless psychobabble going on in this thread.

Growing into operation

Not one to speak my mind, I would like to share a spurt of growth in my model railroad hobby experience.  About 1961 I belonged to the Denver HO Model Railroad Club when it resided in the basement of the Mayan Theater.  We had the necessary cabs, dispatcher and tower operators.  I never made it past the tower so didn't learn much beyond setting the switches.  Our claim to fame was a voice powered communication system and miles of Western Electric 50 twisted pair cable.

At home I was trying to construct a typical foldable 4' x 8'.  I spiked a lot of rail on Tru Scale wood roadbed with milled ties.  Frequent moves prevented my ever completing a layout, but I did operate HO on a hollow core door and later, 1978, a 4' x 8' in our village in Sierra Leone West Africa, powered by a 12 volt car battery, the same one that powered our Singer sewing machine. The above layouts ran with minimal scenery and structures.  For me, and I am sure for many, it was a glorious moment when we attached the 2 wires, turned the knob and it ran, ...    round and round,   ...   stopped  ...  and backed   ...   round and round.  Who could want anything more.

In recent years I have again affiliated myself with a small group of model railroad enthusiasts, Rail Roadrunners of Yuma, and began blogging as Armchair   http://armchairmodelbuilders101.com    Until a month ago I had uncoupled maybe a half dozen cars to set out.  The Big 0-5-0 did most of the work and I just ran the trains round and round, round and round.

A moment to look back; in 1963 I helped build a 5' x 9' HO layout with a reverse loop for public display, all completed in 3 weeks of late nights.  We had 2 trains on the track with the reverse section in a tunnel, run one train in and the other came out and again   ...   and again...

Anyhow.......Marvin, my partner in crime, wants to operate our 5' x 10' club layout with a mine, 2 reverse loops and 4 spurs, take out loads, drop off empties at the mine.  What we had to learn before anything happened was an eye opener.  Uncoupling magnets: between rails or below track, code 100 or 83.  We settled on code 83 between the rails to match our code 83 track.  Knuckle Couplers and Uncoupling hoses:  We had to use the Kadee gage to set the coupler height and hose clearance.  Location:  Magnets  had to be located carefully to properly operate the delayed action.  Now to the point.  Today, August 6, 2013, I, Glen Wasson, successfully ran a train from the upper level to the lower level, uncoupled, brought out 7 loaded cars, replaced with 7 empty cars, coupled up and returned to the upper level, all by myself.  Who says old dogs can't learn new tricks!

A year ago I had no interest in switching operations, but with exposure I gained understanding, with understanding, knowledge and with knowledge, interest.  If I can do it, so may others.  Don't drag them, expose them.  As they used to say, "Try it, you'll like it."

Armchair

Of course it isn't reality!

Is what I am, and others doing, reality?  NO! Of course not.  Is it a selectively compressed SIMULATION of what the real prototype does?  YES! 

If this hobby is just about running trains around, then this hobby is not for me.  I am interested in modeling a transportation system. 

And looking through a computer screen is not something I find interesting at all. 

Ken L.

I'm waiting.....

To see the giant screwdriver come down from the sky and move the switch points or maybe the giant bamboo skewer come down and uncouple a couple of cars when I watch the Norfolk Southern perform switching operations in the town I live in.  Funny I've never seen that yet but the " proto types" will tell you that operation of their railroads is "serious business and just like the real thing!" This idea that a model railroad absolutely has to be like a real railroad and strictly operated like the real thing is getting really old and stale and has been driven into the ground by it's proponents. I sometimes wish I had a time machine and could go back a really enjoy this hobby like I did thirty years ago before the "proto types" gained such a voice and started in with their incessant prattle that has dang near driven me out of the hobby a time or two!

Michael

Both of you children knock it

Both of you children knock it off and go to bed. ENOUGH ALREADY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!