Newspapers

Just a note. The newspapers, next to the gent sitting on the dock and blown up under the stairs, are 1:87.1 scale images of newspapers. I collected the images off the web and cobbled them together and printed them in scale. The front page is an actual South Bend Tribune front page. I must admit that the date is wrong, but I doubt that anybody could see that even with a magnifying glass.

Almost overlooked this one...

Beautiful work here.  I really enjoy the attention to the building's weathering and coloring.  The newspaper is also a great touch!  Maybe a few blown leaves to really seal the deal!

Wonderful model.

-Johnny

Love the detail

Really nice work- some great detail, the newspapers are a very nice touch I think I will "borrow".

My eye prefers a bit more variation in the coloring of the weathering.  The dock looks uniform and new (aging with cracks can be added with a sharp pencil; slightly lighter/darker greys can be dry-brushed on).  Also, the DPM brick gives good relief for mortar lines (I've used a wash before); you could also dry brush the random brick with a slightly different shade of red.  This is nitpicking, because it's a great model (I'm a big fan of the conduit).

I also have no idea how you got the logo on the wall; is that a decal or a stamp or what?  that looks really convincing!

Bruce, you have motivated me

Bruce, you have motivated me so much with both of your posts showing new structures you have built. Tonight I start a new structure and hope it is half as good as what you have built!!

Gary

Very nice use of DPM wall modules.

Very nice used of DPM wall modues.

  I did a similar freight station based on an old E L MOORE  article in RMC years ago using the DPM wall sections.

Bob D.

Very nice use of DPM wall modules.

Very nice used of DPM wall modues.

  I did a similar freight station based on an old E L MOORE  article in RMC years ago using the DPM wall sections.

Bob D.

NOT trying to be a wise guy! - *** UPDATED 6-20-12 2:50p EST****

I have to ask:  Are DPM wall modules counted at "scratch built"?  I thought that for a scratch built wall you would have to make a master (maybe out of plaster) scribe the brick lines, make a mold, and pour resin into to molds to make the walls actually scratch built.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy here - I'm really trying to learn.  Thanks!

**** UPDATE *****  DPM wall modules are counted as scratch built.  My apologies to Bruce and anyone else that I might have offended by my ignorance.

Rick

Wise Guys

I wondered this too.  If you recall the heated discussion of Elizabeth Allen's SDP45 several months back, the consensus of those with knowledge of the NMRA achievement program and judging standards was that her model did not count as scratchbuilt because all the hood doors and various other things were Cannon parts.  Bruce's structure appears to be a similar situation, but apparently the judge(s) ruled the various DPM components counted as "scratchbuilt."  At the very least, this does suggest that there's inconsistency in how the standard is understood and applied.

I'm not opining on the structure at all, just the judging.

My two cents on what is "scratchbuilt"

@Rick-

It's a fair question, with probably no "right" answer.  At risk of offending some purists, I think I would count using the raw DPM module walls as scratchbuilding.  I have done both (below is a photo of a plain sheet plastic warehouse, with photo wallpaper), and I don't see the work as being terribly different, albeit with the DPM walls you are saving a step or several.  You are still working from limited inputs, and creating something from a unique vision.  What is done here wouldn't qualify as kitbashing or kitmingling IMHO, as you aren't working from a kit really at all.  Apart from scratchbuilding, I can't think of another term that would apply.

FWIW Walthers counts things like Pikestuff's concrete block walls under their "scratch building supplies" category.

Whether "scratchbuilt" or some other process description, Bruce has a really nice structure.

Tim Keohane

Mingling elements of the SF Bay area

http://www.westcoastrails.whsites.net

DPM is scratch built!

Bruce - agreed!

Bruce,

I certainly didn't want to look like that I discounted your work and since I'm not experienced in the contest model /AP Evaluation area I learned something.  I've edited my original post to correct this.  I apologize to you and anyone else that I might have offended by my ignorance. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Rick

As you can see, Rick . . .

Stuck in the mud :-(

I'm stuck in the mud as it seems the more I try to pull my foot out of my mouth the deeper down my throat it goes!  So, I'm going to stop posting now.........

Rick

Scratch built may not be the proper term for it. But...

Yes basic shapes are often found in most things but if you are taking the walls from one kit, the windows and doors from another to create a completely different structure then maybe the right term is kit-bashing.

Irv

Qualification

That would seem to do it.  I appreciate seeing that clarification, and it would be nice if those who discount such things would take heed and apply the standard more consistently.

Not to offend anyone

I see DPM as a Kit Bash accessory where brick or wall sheeting be it paper, plaster, wood or plastic would be more in line with a scratch building product Because You would have to make Wall exterior corners as well as the Door & window Openings by cutting them yourself and not using the precut windows and doors that come with DPM products. But this is my opinion and I don't make the Scratch building rules they are just the rules I abide with.

Both Scratch building as well as Kit bashing use close to the same skills if you do a good job of assembly is all that really matters.

Dan

Bruce I wish to apologize for missing the point of your blog

I'm sorry I only gave my opinion on what I feel is Kit Bashing and Scratch Building and the fine line between them. I broke my own rule of not reading the headline post and ended up commenting on the last couple of posts at the end of your blog.

Weather Scratch built, Kit built or Kit bashed it takes a lot of time & patients to produce a quality model such as your Freight house and even more to produce a contest quality and detailed model anyone would be proud to own. Keep up the great work and again I apologize for waiting until the next day to review my comment.

Keep building and Scratch building your really quite good at it.

Dan

You didn't offend me, Dan.

GLW Freight House

Bruce,

I think your freight house looks great. I am glad you did this post as it goes to the heart of what I have been arguing with our region awards chairman as to what constitutes "scratch built". I have built 2 very large structures (both are about 3 1/2 to 4 feet long) on my way to the acheivement award for my layout. These buildings are very much designed and built for my layout and are for specific areas. I talked to our region awards person about what I did. I used all .060 styrene for the basic body of the structures. I had to cut all the window and door openings so I could fit the windows and doors into them. I used Walthers Modulars windows and doors in both. Also in one structure I used the brick panels that come in the Modulars to make a brick curtain style building everything else was cut to fit. Other detail parts such as vents, ladders etc are commercial items.

But according to him these structures can't qualify as scratch built because I did use the commercial items listed above. Many of the guys in are Division agree with me and some are MMR's. But the judging has to be done by MMR's. I think much of the judging is political and also misinturpentation. I have been turn off by this situition and will probably not persue the award. By the way both of these structures have one 1st place and Best of Show at our Division's annual Fall Show.  

BINGO!!!

We probably should start yet another thread on the MMR problem instead of polluting this one as what Richard01 said sums up the #1 problem with the process:

" I think much of the judging is political and also misinterpretation."

Any time people are involved in a process there will be politics and misinterpretation!

A word of caution to anyone attempting to get your MMR certification:  Besides having the skills and dedication you will need to learn to "play the game"!  I'm not an MMR, but I know a number of people that are and game playing (especially MMR paperwork and politics) is a BIG part of the process.

And now I will apologize to all that are insulted by what I said - both MMRs and those that want to become MMRs.  I'm sorry if you are offended by the truth, but the truth is the truth.  Now you can run me out of town on a rail! 

Rick

......

I see no need for any one of you to apologize.

If some previous posts are accurate, Richard should take the picture and wording in this post back to his region awards person for clarification and reconsideration of his structures. 

With all respect, I do not see the 97% of this building that has been scratch built. I would like to see the interior detail, as that may help to quantify the percentage.

 To clarify some points, I will copy n paste from the NMRA rules regarding the qualifications. Any one can also browse these qualifications at: http://nmra.org/education/achievement/def.html#scratch 

Reading below you will see that the DPM cast wall sections are not considered basic shapes. The stairs, electric meter, freight, roof vents, doors, windows and figures are also not considered basic shapes.

From NMRA page above with my highlights:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Scratchbuilt

 

To be considered scratchbuilt, a model must have been constructed by the applicant without the use of any commercial parts except

1. Motor
2. Gears
3. Drivers and wheels
4. Couplers
5. Light bulbs
6. Trucks
7. Bell
8. Marker and classification lights
9. Valve gear
10. Car brake fittings
11. Basic wood, metal and plastic shapes

A model is considered "scratchbuilt" if at least 90% of the model's pieces/parts (other than those specifically exempted in the list above) are fabricated by the modeler. This is a quantitative assessment based on the number of pieces with no weight given to complexity. This is a separate determination from the scratch building score.

If some points of the exempted parts are also scratchbuilt, the modeler may qualify for Bonus Points (see definition above)

The term "scratchbuilt" carries the implication that the builder alone has accomplished all of the necessary layout and fabrication which establish the final dimensions, appearance, and operating qualities of the scale model."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, regarding bullet point #11 in the above quote:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Basic Shapes

Basic shapes are things that the builders of the prototype would have used as raw materials. For example "I-Beams," scribed siding, embossed brick sheets, and scale lumber are considered basic shapes. Assemblies such as ladders, or detail castings such as door or window castings, (Including cast wall sections with windows doors or other features.) are not considered to be basic shapes."

....

And although the downspouts are neat, there should be scuppers mounted through the wall then the spouts connected to them. As it is, if those downspouts became plugged, rainwater would fill the roof until it gave way or raised to the level of the parapet wall and ran over the top.

In the real world, anyway.

Thanks for Confirming What I suspected

Thanks for confirming what I have long suspected, Rich. One of the reasons I'm not going to bother with the Achievement Program.

Now, more to the point...

Scratchbuilt or kitbashed - whatever you want to call it, the GLW Freight House is one fine looking piece of model work.

-George