Deja vue!

Sorry to report you that this story is not new for me: I've search some solution in N scale too for me, but nothing "ready-to-sail" on the market.

Just for your info there are some additional products in N scale you can check:

https://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=1103

( 2 rails barge ) and Artitek :

http://www.hobbyworld.nl/shop/indexIT.php?TAAL=IT&BTW=19

the link take to a home page - select "Navigation" on left menu and then the proper scale (1:160 ?)

They have one Ferry in N and another in HOn3 (I've evaluated also to use just the hull of this as a 3 or 4 track barge given the size)

At the end I realize that "if" I want a custom barge... I need to scratchbuild this! It's not so difficult and with some work you can afford, I'm sure.

And... don't panic abut lay a turnout: if you need only one and you don't want to buy a jig from Fastarck, and you don't want to build from a template.... try to modify an Atlas code 55 to your need. It can't cost a fortune for a try.

Be cool and .... run steam.

Enzo Fortuna

The trouble with car floats

I don't want to cut apart an atlas #4 for the purpose of putting part on a car float and part on an apron so I am trying to come up with an alternate way of doing it by either putting the turnout on the apron or on the car float either way its going to be doing something that isn't prototypical not that has ever stopped me before. However, since my whole layout is based on something that isn't truly prototypical these days I may just do what is necessary to get car float operations going and worry about it later.

Still it would be nice to have something as close to prototypical as possible.

Now if only Walthers would make their HO Scale car float and aprons in N Scale. I've already asked and they have told me they have no plans to do this. Now that doesn't say the won't do it eventually but they aren't doing it now. Darn it.

Sometimes this hobby can be frustrating.

Irv

Sometimes this hobby can be frustrating.

"Sometimes this hobby can be frustrating."

Irv, That's when creativity starts.

Sometimes this hobby can be frustrating

Yep. Creativity is usually what comes to the rescue in these situations. However, what do you do until the epiphany we call creativity comes?

Irv

turnouts on car float

I have never worked with N scale so this might not be possible but here's a thought.

Take a piece of half inch or 3/8 plywood and layout the plan of your carfloat and the unloading ramp. Pre-saw the separation line about 1/4 of the way in from both sides.

Layout your tracks and spike or glue them down - whatever you planned to use.  I presume the points are on the dock and everything else is on the float.  Take a fine saw and saw the rails on the line between the float and the dock.  When the rails are separated and re-glued continue sawing the plywood.

This may not work but it will give you a lot of ideas of what might work.

Artarms

The trouble with car floats

Been there and it doesn't work for me because I just can't get it right. So right now I am think of having three tracks leading off the car float into a turnout on the apron. It's not prototypical but it has the best chance of working as far as I am concerned. I know I could get a jig for this but I don't want to spend the $200 plus that is going to cost since i only need 4 car floats and two aprons.

Irv

Cutting

Irv,

I think I'm not understanding. A lot of people make swing out sections by doing what was suggested - lay the track, than cut it while in place. If you put the float in it's docked position, lay down all of the track and secure it, you should be able to cut the turrnout in place with a razor saw and seperate the two parts cleanly.

I'd think the turnout needs to be very secure before you cut - forget spiking, glue that thing down hard (execept the points, of course) and let it dry fully before cutting.

The problems that I'd see with this are with electricity and alignment, IF you intend on moving the float.

If you don't plan on moving the float, why not remove a tie underneath, and than just cut half way through the rail from above to show the break?

Cutting

I will be using 4 car floats and they will be moved as they are to be used as cassettes to get cars onto and off the layout. No more than two car floats will be docked (attached to the layout) at any one time and all will be in storage when the layput is not in use. No electrical contact will be needed on the car floats as the locomotives will not be permitted to go on them or even on the aprons as the prototype didn't permit the kind of locomotives I will be using in the associated rail yards anywhere near the car floats or their associated aprons due to weight considerations.

You are saying that I should cut apart a perfectl good turnout to produce a prototypical track arrangement. The problem is that doing this in N-Scale (which is what I am working in) is a very intricate operation and there is very little room for error. I don't think I can do it myself without alot of hand holding since I have never done anything like this. Sure I have cut flex track with a plastic jig that fit over the flex track and a razor saw. but there is no jig I know of that will do te job neatly given the fact that there is a alot plastic including guard rails that make cutting accurately something that is difficult (at least for me).

That said I also have to remind you of the fact that using your method I coud produce two car floats with the correct track arrangement from two turnouts. However I will need another two (or possibly even more) car floats with just the trackwork that would have to fit into the the same slips as the previous two but I wouldn't want to sacrifice two more turnouts to get them. Those would need to have track hand laid on them. Now I am not above experimenting but this is not something I would do without a lot of guidance. THat's why I was asking for a volunteer to help.

Irv

ok it's a bit more clear

Irv, it's a bit more clear now, thanks for your post. I wouldn't see the other two turnouts as sacrifices; they are allowing you to do what you need to to represent the prototype.

Getting the others to line up shouldn't be too bad, as long as all of the floats and the track on them are identical to each other. If they are, cut it a bit long and file it to fit.

For making a straight cut across the turnout, you could clamp a straight edge (metal) as a guide.

It sounds like your best bet is what you suggested - just use one turnout on the apron, complete, and the prototype be damned!

The Trouble with Car Floats

I just took a look at some photos I have of car float track arrangements and compare those photos with the Atlas #4s I have. What this told is that what is needed is a wye turnout. Now I don;t have any of those at the moment and I don' know if Atlas made them in their Code 80 N-Scale line. Come to think of it, I haven't seen them in any other line or code either but I am not sure they aren't available.

In examining the turnouts (and I looked at the #6s I have as well) cutting any of them just isn't going to work since there will be allignment problems because of the way these are constructed. It would seem the points are much to long and the tracks lengths themselves are too sloppy for the purpose of putting any part of the turnouts on the car float itself. So I will have to either custom build these or put the entire turnout on the apron. Now I haven't seen anyone do this in N-Scale and I don't remember ever seeing anyone modelling really modeling three track car float operations in a prototypical manner. So I may be breaking some new ground here. I hope I am wrong here because I don't much care for the idea of being an innovator. Oh well. It is what it is and it will be what it will be.

Irv

The trouble with car floats

The Walthers HO carfloat requires a wye set back from the apron to create two lead tracks, then a second turnout split across the apron-carfloat join to give the third track. This is provided in the apron kit, and I can see would be nasty to replicate in N.

Your problem can be reduced if you are prepared to use modeller's license. It is a problem of matching 4 carfloats to two aprons. SO: simply have no turnouts on the carfloat. Ensure the tracks, as they come off the carfloat, are all parallel and the same distance apart, and match parallel tracks on the apron. Keep everything at 90 degrees, and model your apron horizontal. As soon as you are on the apron, drag the tracks together into their points, to suit your space (some NY yards had two lead tracks anyway, some with crossovers, so anything goes).

To ensure all joins match consider making 6 identical jigs out of, I dont know, styrene? Plus consider using pins to hold everything aligned when you mount your carfloats (similar to how modules are aligned).

Doing it this way you have lost the diverging and curved tracks on the carfloats but have guaranteed alinement. I guess your call. 

Would you consider building a

Would you consider building a stub switch on the Apron?  All it is, is the Rail points with a slide with set points where the slide locks...

Then you only need to scratchbuild the frogs and such - you need two frogs per float, one for each center rail.

Getting it to work reliably would be the ticket...tricky!

Have you given considerations to how you will life the carfloats?  It's a good time to think about it now, perhaps!!

I just had a thought!!!

You could make the carfloat decks out of playwood.  The sides of the carfloats would be permanently attached to the layout basin, with the water nicely set up to the sides.  You would insert two handles into keyed slots in the deck surfact, twist each one 90 degrees, and then lift the plywood out of the layout - leaving behind the front side.

Now you could make three variations of your harbor deck, whereas version one has no flaots docked, version two has the left carfloat docked, version 3 has the right docked, and version 4 has both docked.  but that is complicated!!  heh!

Maybe BAD ideas, but at least they're here to be shot down!!

Properly alligning car floats

The key to properly alligning car floats on the prototype has a lot to do with how they are attached to car float apron. In the real world this done through that look like those sliding door latches that Joe F. uses to control his turnouts. THey're much bigger of course and square in cross section. There are four of these on each car float. One is on each side of the car float and two are located in the center of each float. When those are attached to the appropriate receptacles on the apron the tracks are automatically aligned.

Heres how it should work on my car floats. There will be one on each side of the car float and one on each side of the center track. Now there isn't much room so these won't be the commercial door latches. In fact they won't be door latches at all but will be some kind of dowel that will fit into a custome made receptacle on the are float apron. The car floats will nt have track laid on them until this installatin is complete. The car float will be attached to the apron and only then will I begin laying track witht he center track positioned first. the tracks on each side will then positioned as dictated by the track work on the apron. Form what I see now (I haven't tried it yet) this should work best.

AS for designing the car floats, well that should be easy because they're going to be made from planks of wood 3 - 4 inches wide and 24 inches in length. They won't be accurate models simply because they don't have to be. They will be good approximations though so I am eventually going to equip them with bollards and al the other stuff that car floats did carry.

Irv

Aligning

Sounds a logical way of aligning. Consider using off-the-shelf styrene rods and tubes, maybe even the square tubing. Many sizes are designed to slide snugly into each other, can be made to look similar to the real thing, and will take repeated wear well if you taper the male connector.  Bonus points if you can find black styrene. But working in N scale they will need to be oversize. Do think hard about also mounting a magnet to hold the carfloat to the apron, it doesn't take much to derail N scale.

The key to aligning tracks will be to do as you say once, then use your first carfloat as the master to make your second apron, then subsequent carfloats based on the first apron (use rail joiners as a temporary aid). If you make two distinct constructions they will likely not match.

Build your apron from the same plank of wood (suitably decorated) and your connectors will only need to align, not carry weight or be under any vertical stress.

Finally, on the carfloat attach a coupler to the bumping post of each track to hold the cars as you move them. Attach a small lever to the knuckle so you can swing it open once secured and push the cars away about a half inch. This can be disguised with a name plate, for instance B+O had quite prominent plates at the end of their tracks.

Alligning N-SCale Track

THer will be more than just the deck allignment dowels. I intend to put some in the hull of the car float as well. It'll give it a bit more stability.

As for putting couplers on the bumping posts, that sounds like a good idea for me to explore furher. It just might work to keep cars from rooling off the floats but the prototype not only chained the cars to the car floats but also put old ties under the car wheels to keep them from movind as well. These will be explored as well since i will need to make sure th cars don't come off the floats while they are being transported to and from the storage shelves.

Irv