joem5127

I'm looking for some opinions of the more detailed track systems. I recently dismantled my layout due to a move, it was built with Atlas code 83. It ran very well but i was never very satisfied with the appearance of the track work in photographs. The new layout will be another smallish layout so time to construct isn't a real concern.  I'd like to use code 70 and 55 rail to better represent branch line / industrial trackage.  Cost isn't one of my main concerns either. The new layout will be relatively small and will only have 10-15 turnouts. Oh ya, HO scale, and the history of my previous layout can be found here:

http://wabashcolumbiabranch.blogspot.com/

Joe

 

Joe

http://wabashcolumbiabranch.blogspot.com/

http://detroitconnecting.blogspot.com/

 

Reply 0
proto87stores

I'd go for New School, 21st Century Hand lay, but I'm biased

Ultimate Prototypically Realistic Track and it's, mix and match, quick and simple to lay, Fast and Easy Track were developed on the basis of moving beyond the Pros and Cons of what was mentioned  in your list.

If you haven't already found out about it, there is more info at http://www.proto87.com

 

 

 

Andy

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Eric Hansmann Eric H.

Lean on your strengths

Joe, From your blog it seems your last layout had some quality track work. Here's the part that stood out to me: "Bench work, track work and my DCC system all worked better than expected and where a great learning experience that I can carry on to the next layout." Your experiences with track and DCC are a real strength and an area that should shine on the next layout. I've worked with code 70 rail and find it much easier to work with than code 83. In some aspects, it needs a little more attention in order to make a good presentation and solid operation. If you were able to master these aspects with code 83, then you are probably ready to try something new with code 70.

I've had limited experience in using a combination of Fast Tracks and Central Valley components, but I have been pretty satisfied to this point. While you plan the new layout why not build a small module that incorporates other products and techniques that you are considering for the larger layout? A test module can offer a respite from benchwork and room prep, and ready your skill sets for track laying on the new layout.

Eric

Eric Hansmann
Contributing Editor, Model Railroad Hobbyist

Follow along with my railroad modeling:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/

Reply 0
joem5127

Thanks for the information. I

Thanks for the information. I have an order placed for a Central Valley turnout kit along with some of their tie strips and a Micro Engineering turnout and flex track.  I’m also working on an order from Proto87. That only leaves a Fast Tracks built turnout to come up with for evaluation. I’d like to do this without buying the fixtures if I’m not going to use them. Does anyone sell turnouts that have been built in these fixtures? As suggested I plan to build a module with all three and see which one I prefer.

Joe

Reply 0
herronp

Buy Fast Track Jig made turnouts.......

......on eBay.  I see them a lot in the HO track and accessories section.  The only problem I could see is if they are not well made, they will not perform well.  I have the jigs and when I make them right, they work perfectly.  I had problems with the first one I made as I didn't file the notches in the rails deep enough and the rolling stock would "pick the switch".  I monkeyed with it in place and got it better but not perfect so I replaced it. 

Peter

Reply 0
flyerm65

Fast Tracks fixture

I would recommend the Fast Tracks fixture and point tools to anyone wanting to build their own.

With a little care and following the instructions, it is easy to build VERY nice turnouts.  I used the #6 code 100 for my first attempt.  It turned out perfect.  The point tool makes filing the points and frogs simple.

Go to their website and watch the videos,

If you like, contact me at saila65@hotmail.com.

Ed

Reply 0
Russ Bellinis

I haven't used Fast Tracks.

From the testimonials that I've seen here from people who have used them, you can make reliable, functional, track work with the jigs.  So far the only turnouts to receive a full certificate of conformance from the NMRA are Fast Tracks jig built and Proto87 Stores turnouts.  I don't know if the Central Valley turnouts have been tested or not.  Since the main point that I got from your original post is a desire for more realistic looking track work, I would look on Ebay and order a ready made turnout built on a Fast Track jig.  There are enough people building and selling such turnouts that you should be able to find one from an experienced reputable seller.  Order one of the jig built turnouts built with a Fast Tracks jig and see if it meets your appearance standards.  There is no sense ordering Fast Tracks jigs if the results are not what you are looking for appearance wise.  You mentioned that you didn't like the way your old track looked in photos even though it ran reliably, so at this point it sounds like prototypical appearance with good reliable operation is important to you.

Reply 0
joem5127

I have now ordered some kits

I have now ordered some kits and parts from the Proto87 store as well as an assembled Fast Tracks turnout from an Ebay’er.  Can’t wait for everything to get here so I can do some comparisons and decide what will work best for me. I’ll follow this up with pictures as stuff starts showing up and I get these built.

Joe

Reply 0
proto87stores

I think "Cream City" offers turnouts built from Fast Tracks Jigs

You'd have to confirm with them, but it looks that way.

Andy

Reply 0
Wolfgang

Central Valley

Joe Fugate shows the use of Central Valley ties as jig to make a turnout. For standard turnouts this is a good idea.

BTW, b uilding your own turnout with PC board ties is not difficult.

Wolfgang

Reply 0
CarterM999

Peco

I have used Atlas track, Peco turnouts and tried Micro Engineering. I bought two ME turnouts, one turnout fell apart out of the box. Returned it to Rand (ME), would not make it good. Poor customer service. On the other hand, from what I understand, the items are made in China.

Peco has worked flawlessly for me and easy to modify (if need be) for DCC. Plus I like the spring action on closure. 

 

 "HO" TRAINS ARE MY LIFE...AND "N" AND "AMERICAN FLYER" AND "LIONEL" AND EBAY.

WITHOUT CLOSETS, MODEL MANUFACTURERS WOULD NEVER BE PROFITABLE.

CARTERM999

Reply 0
Russ Bellinis

When you add a reply to this thread, don't forget the original

post criteria.  The OP is interested in turnouts that not only work reliably, but also look like the prototype when he photographs the track work.  I think that probably rules out most all of the commercial r-t-r turnouts except perhaps Micro Engineering or Central Valley.  The rest of the turnouts may or may not operate reliably depending on how much modification you do to them, but none look like prototype track when photographed.

Reply 0
joem5127

Thanks Russ, I didn’t have

Thanks Russ,

I didn’t have any problems from my code 83 Atlas/ Walthers track on my last layout. I was able to achieve near zero derailments, and when there was a derailment it was almost always an operator error, or an out of gage wheel set, not the track work. I had done some work to the out of the box turnouts to improve the reliability, sharpen points, jumper wires, frog filing, etc.   My goal for the next layout and what started this thread is for the track work to have a more realistic appearance in photographs.  Code 83 rail is just too tall to represent the light 50- 60-70 pound rail that was used on the secondary lines. The other major problem was the size of the spike head detail and the rivets at the point rail pivot points.  So in short this quest for a better turnout is driven more by esthetics than dependability problems. I suspect that the finer rail and details will take more up front work and maintenance but on a small layout with a dozen or so turnouts I don’t see that as a negative. And while on the subject is there such a thing as a dimensioned drawing of a NMRA compliant turnout available somewhere?

And thanks everyone for your input on this subject.

Joe

Reply 0
proto87stores

Turnout Drawings on-line

Putting my NMRA S&D Dept helper hat on here.. . .

There may be a slight misunderstanding here. The NMRA suggested drawings for turnouts are covered under RP12 on the NMRA website .  These are "recommended practices", which go beyond the basic standards and are non-mandatory recommendations for some specific purpose. Generally the purpose is inter-manufacturer interoperability and most reliable running of equipment built to the basic standards. The NMRA does not cross the line into defining any degree of cosmetic appearance or realism, and leaves that to the individual modelers and manufacturers.

BUT . . . RP12, like many NMRA RP's, was instigated primarily for the purpose of interoperability and reliable running of RTR locos and cars on the sharp curves more associated with trains sets of the day, rather than larger, more to scale layouts. So rather than focus on using the prototypical turnout geometry and appearance, they defined a separate NMRA RP geometry for a slightly shorter turnout  with longer curved points and a sharper switch angle and on the whole slightly longer wing and guard rails with more pronounced bends/flares.

Since RPs are NOT standards, you may follow them or not, at your preference, while still complying with the standards themselves, which are confined mostly to defining the wheels and track relationships. And please note, that RP 12 does not define cosmetic aspects like throw bar design, or tie sizes/positions, spacing, etc,

I can't speak for others, but it my understanding that there are high quality RP12 compliant templates, with suggested tie placements included,  freely available on-line, as are the CAD versions of AAR prototype turnouts that I produced personally, at the Proto 87 Stores website , templates page.

Andy

Reply 0
Russ Bellinis

I see Andy has jumped in here, Joe.

I would suggest looking over the Proto 87 Stores web site.  Andy has scale sized spikes, tie plates, and all of the details to make your track work as close to the prototype as you would like.  You can do as much detail or as little as you like to achieve the look you want.  Another source of tie plates is Monster Model Works.  He has lazer cut tie plates in ho and o scales, as well as rail anchors in o scale.  The rest of the little track details will need to be sourced from Proto 87 Stores, but Andy has made it possible to make track work as detailed and correct as any super detailed piece of rolling stock you can find.

http://monstermodelworks.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=21

Reply 0
joem5127

Andy, Russ, I wasn’t so

Andy, Russ,

I wasn’t so much looking for a drawing of a turnout as much as track gage, flange clearance, etc. Looks like I was looking for  NMRA S3.1 and 3.2. Thanks for all the helpful info so far. Looks like some of test turnout kit will arrive today and I can start looking over my options over the weekend.

Joe

Reply 0
joem5127

I love the mailman!

All the test subjects have arrived. From top to bottom:

Sample Fast Tracks , Atlas Custom Line ( salvaged from old layout and included just for reference), Micro Engineering, Central Valley.

So far I have only had time to give these a quick look. The first thing I noticed is how smoothly rolling stock goes through the Fast Tracks turnout and how fine the spike detail is on the ME turnout.

I also received my order from Proto87, ten dollar, super fine, and ultimate.  All I can say is wow! The level of detail here is incredible. I’m anxious to see if I have steady enough hands to actually but these together. I hope to have some time this weekend to get started.

Joe

Reply 0
numbersmgr

Very Interested

Joe

I am eagerly waiting to follow the results of your test.  Thank you for taking on the job and sharing.

Jim Dixon    MRM 1040

A great pleasure in life is doing what others said you were not capable of doing!   

Reply 0
proto87stores

Note Ultimate Turnout kits, like Fast tracks TO kits, need jigs

The Fast and Easy, Superfine and Craftsman ( aka 10 Dollar) kits use the CV bases and therefore are their own jig,

We strongly recommend not attempting to build an Ultimate turnout without a fixture, (Switch-works), otherwise it's just a collection of lengths of rail and parts that can be placed anywhere.

I'm happy to loan a Switch-Works fixture out for a trial. But please let us know before you start. And of course there is the low-cost version, (Just $39.95 for a #6 fixture ), using just the top layers (your chosen size "option") on your own piece of flat wood as base and using common office supply "thumbtacks"  instead of magnets.

Andy

Reply 0
wp8thsub

More to look for

Quote:

The first thing I noticed is how smoothly rolling stock goes through the Fast Tracks turnout and how fine the spike detail is on the ME turnout.

Once the above sinks in, note that neither the Fast Tracks turnout nor the Micro Engineering have closer spaced ties under the frogs.  The CVT tie strips and Proto 87 Stores templates/jigs incorporate the closer spacing.  This is an important detail that few modelers seem to notice.

Rob Spangler MRH Blog

Reply 0
joem5127

Thanks Andy,

Thanks Andy,

The offer to loan a Switch-Works fixture for the evaluation is very generous.   I had originally thought I would be able to build just one to test without the fixture but after looking over the parts in the kit I can see why it isn’t recommended.  The quality and detail of the etched parts is very impressive.   A couple of questions. What is the recommended adhesive for the tie plates and rail?  Are assembly instructions or diagrams on the website? It is pretty self explanatory for most of the parts but might be helpful for some of the finer details.

Joe

Reply 0
proto87stores

Glues for turnout assembly

We recommend (and use ourselves) :-

1. ACC GEL for gluing the tieplates to wood ties.  (Easiest in a Syringe with an extra fine needle).

2. Barge or Pliobond diluted 50% with MEK for  gluing rail to tieplates and for rail to plastic ties.

(Easiest in a Syringe with a fine needle).

Note: We also use ACC GEL for gluing the rails ends down on the last two ties. This helps hold the rail firmly while the Pliobond cures and also makes the ends much less likely to become loosened if roughly installed. We also strongly do not recommend the use of traditional "force -on" type rail joiners for glued track. (or any track for that matter). We do have low-impact  "rail aligners" for helping keep the rail ends closely in line at joints, but simple open butt joints work fine too. Always wire around joints for electrical continuity regardless.

I must apologize for our Proto:87 web site and instructions, not being very professional or anywhere nercomplete by today's web marketing standards. These still suffer from limited resources (me) and being second or lower priority to trying to finishing the complete design of  what turned out to be an unexpectedly large range of prototypical track building components. But fixing that will be my "retirement project".

There are usually appropriate "help" or "instructions" page links on the RHS of each major product page.

For "Utimate" Museum Standard turnouts:  http://www.proto87.com/handlaid-turnout-reference-manual.html

For Superfine, etc. : http://www.proto87.com/page132.html

A new, in progress page for frog assembly using the jig. http://www.proto87.com/making-HO-frogs-fixture.html

If in doubt, ask! I have the both "contact" email and the "ACCU-TRAK" elist for support , and many others there now chime -in with help before I can!

Andy

Reply 0
joem5127

I finally got caught up on my

I finally got caught up on my hunny-do list this weekend and had time to start assembling turnout kits. More pictures of some of the finished products to follow.

rack%201.JPG 

Reply 0
lexon

Track

If you count a lot of rivets, Rivet Counter, hand laid does not look good next to engineered track.

Our club in the 1980's started with hand laid track and all the turnouts, some curved turnouts.

In 2005 with new members who have a lot  of experience started using engineered track and turnouts on expansion's. All but two original members have moved on or passed away.

Hand laid track one spike every few ties, does not look prototypical at all but the track work does flow very nicely. No tie plates either.

I would go with one or the other.

Rich

Reply 0
joem5127

Rich, I guess I am sort

Rich,

I guess I am sort of counting rivets here.  Track that looks right in pictures and operates reliably is the goal. I agree that spiked track has some appearance problems. I don't plan to mix and match. What ever I pick I'll stick with.

Just some quick Iphone pics for now. I'll post better pictures when I'm all done.

Micro Engineering

 

Working on the Proto87stores $10 turnout kit.

IMG_0107.JPG _0096(1).JPG 

Top Central Valley tie strip, code 70

Center Atlas Code 83

Bottom Micro Engineering, code 70

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