better than nothing

It couldn't hurt.  Mind you, I tend to avoid soldering joiners anyway since I don't trust them as conductors; a feeder to each rail is more reliable.  You really can't get away with using the rails as your main conductors with nickel-silver rail anyway, because as conducting metals go, n-s is pretty poor, and you will get a substantial voltage drop once you are getting into the tens of feet of rail.

It may help keep the contacts in turnout points clean, but I don't trust them any more than rail joiners, so my points are also hardwired.  The No-Ox would prevent paint or glue from sticking to the contacts, which would keep them cleaner, but that means they will stay metalic, and resist weathering too.  Shiny parts in turnouts should be restricted to the railhead where wheels roll.

More ideas

I would not use no-ox in lieu of soldering rail joiners.  However, it would certainly be better than nothing for joints that cannot be soldered (module joints, expansion joints, temporary layouts, etc.)

I have wondered about using it to tune mechanisms, such as the contacts on wheels, commutators, etc.  Has anybody tried that?

Commutators

I have two old Athearn mechanisms (SD7 and SW7) that I've been trying to reduce the amperage in.  I used Ox-Gard (GB Electronics' similar product) on the commutators of both with no change in amperage readings on my good old Fluke meter.

If I didn't solder joiners, I think I'd try Ox-Gard (or No-Ox) in the joiners.  The idea certainly makes sense.

noise reduction?

What about motor noise?  I have an old open frame motor that I would dearly love to quiet.  It's fairly quiet if i oil the commutator, but it throws its oil fairly quickly and then it's back to square one.

No-Ox

I have used it on G gauge track joiners and it worked great. No oxidation after 4 years

Feeders...

Leave the joints alone, use hardwired feeders - they're brutally reliable.

No-Ox has it's place-

I did put it on the rail joiners of my grandson's EZ-Track.  He takes it apart and re-does the layout often.  He puts it together and takes it apart like Legos.  Every day it's different.  For a 7-year old the soldered rail feeders really aren't an option yet.  After a year and a half the track still runs like new, which means that it runs excellently.  I carefully applied a very thin coating using a microbrush as it's not possible to wipe it out from inside the joiners.

I'd suggest not putting it on the turnout contact tabs.  Or, if you do, treat it like everyone treats the rails and wheels - put it on, leave it for 24 hours or more, then wipe it off.  Wipe it as dry as you can get it.  Otherwise the grease aspect of No-Ox will attract all sorts of debris which will prevent the points from moving fully, and there will be subsequent derailments.  The contact tabs are also a difficult location to do the wiping, so think twice before tackling it.  You'd need to be rather cautious to avoid damaging the turnout.

If you're building a  "permanent" layout, I don't think the No-Ox on rail joiners is the best answer.  As others have mentioned, soldered feeder wires are the best.  If you have a portion of track where you don't want to solder the joiners, for example at a turnout, to make future maintenance easier, you still ought to solder feeder wires to the turnout.  As one person has said, "every piece of rail should be soldered to something - either to a feeder wire, or to another rail."  Most people who have long-term experience using No-Ox on rails and locomotive wheels say they re-coat on an interval anywhere from 6 months to 2 years.  Permanent track joints are likely to be together a lot longer than that.  But that, of course, depends on you and what your desires are.

Certainly if you fill the joiner with No-Ox, and also coat the ends of the rails with No-Ox before putting the track together, it will perform as claimed and your electrical connections will remain the same as when joined, for a very long time.  Probably many years.

But I also think having a grease-type product remaining in the joiners will seep out over time and discolor the paint on your rails and ballast.

Note this material is NOT a de-oxidizer!  It is an ANTI-Oxidant.  You need to start with a clean surface, and then it will help keep it that way for a very long time.

I'd be curious to see how it worked on a motor commutator.  I suppose if I were to try it I'd polish the commutator, apply the No-Ox just like on track and wheels, then buff it dry.  Much care will be needed to not damage the windings.

Commutator comments

Ken,

I really didn't notice any difference in noise when I used the Ox-Gard on the commutators.  And that was with the bodies off.

Ken, Kevin,

Concerning commutator lube:  actually, after rethinking this a bit, this is a case of carbon brushes riding on a smooth metal surface, so extra lubrication beyond the carbon shouldn't be necessary.  Where I have seen problems in motor commutator noise, there is dirt, grit, or similar stuff there, that is evident by the existence of scratches on the commutator surface.

All,

Regarding use of No-Ox, or Ox-Gard, etc., only a small amount is ever necessary.  If it is globbing up, piling up, throwing up, ..., too much is being used at a time.

No-Ox

Thank you all for your comments and advice!  At this point, I am considering trying it on a joiner, then later trying to solder the joiner to see if the No-Ox interferes (in case I have to solder after all because the No-Ox alone doesn't do the job). 

Dante

Oil and brushes?

Oil often softens carbon brushes, we have motors in work where oil coolant gets in them and the com ends up coated in carbon, which causes high currents and reduces the motor speed.

Mike Ruby

Liquids and motor brushes

Dear Don, MRHers,

Liquids, particularly solvents and oils, are the #1 _killer_ of motor brushes. Ask anyone who has had a Phase 1 or 2 (dual motor) B'mann 44tonner "smoke it up", 

or followed the publicised process for lubing a B'mann On30 shay,
only to get oil into the top motor bearing and commutator area, thus killing the loco.

Such liquids tend to wick into the carbon brushed, softening them to the point that they simply disintegrate. In the process, they tend to fill the gaps in the comm segments, potentially causing a low-resistance condition between the "poles" or motor coils. In extreme cases, this can cause "pinwheel" issues, hotspots on the comm, or worse...

Oils and solvents anywhere near the motor commutator = bad, very bad...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Don't solder the No-Ox / motors

Dante- soldering an area that has a No-Ox coating isn't going to work unless  you clean the area with solvent (strong solvent), and flux it (the usual procedure) then you'll be OK.  I suspect that if a rail joiner has had No-Ox applied to it, then it needs to be removed and soaked in a rather aggressive solvent ( ? laquer thinner ?)  to get all the components of the No-Ox out of the small formed metal pieces.  Perhaps even a more mechanical method such as a small brush to swab the solvent thru the joiner, or something like put a bunch of joiners in a glass jar half-full of solvent and shake it for a while.

The No-Ox acts as a protective coating against oxidation.  By itself it's not intended as a lubricant.

Using it on a motor commutator ought to follow good practice of applying it, then polishing it off.  Don't leave any of the residue on the commutator.  Yes, as stated by others, it will bugger up the functioning of the motor.

Nobody's checked in yet as to the actual active function of No-Ox.  We're all sort of assuming there's a metallurgical reaction that creates a surface that is much less prone to oxidation.  This may or may not be the case.  We need someone to advise how this happens, then we can more intelligently go about using it correctly.  Perhaps one of you is a metallurgist/chemical engineer working in an area such as this?  We have "tribal knowledge", and that only goes so far.  We can use it well for the basics, but it gets dangerous to extend it's application without a better technical basis.  Either dangerous, or it will be trial-and-error, which is then expensive.

oil on the commutator

Prof_,

Thanks for your post.

The more I've thought about it, no lube on the commutator makes sense, for all the reasons you've indicated.  ( There's the deal, I should have thought more, and acted less, so it's another mistake, and that leads to experience, thence wisdom.  What a slow process! )  

No-Ox "air exclusion" layer

Dear Kevin,

I can't find it right now, but seem to recall that No-Ox has come up quite a number of times in the last 2 or so years here on-forum. (A search for "No-Ox" shows results dating back to 2010...).

The one I recall (but I can't find!) included a post with a quite extensive rundown of exactly _how_ No-Ox worked, 

IIRC the quick version being that it formed a air-exclusion barrier between the surface of the railhead and the air, thus making air-exposure-oxidisation impossible for as long as/wherever the un-broken protective layer exists...

Personally I refuse to use any form of "wet" treatment on my layouts,
having seen too many situations where (inadvertent, and hard-to-control) excess-application appeared to attract,
or at least create an adhesive-to-dust dust-sticking situation
(worked great for the first 15 - 30 minutes after application in Show Situations,
but rapidly went downhill in the airbourne-dust-laden atmosphere of the average polished-wood-floor show hall)

FWIW, graphite works for me, and has done for over 15 years of active show and home ops.
CAUTION! If you're only _just_ pulling your grades now, you _will_ slip on graphite. 
However, it's easily applied (_and_ removed if not to your liking ),
and poses zero chemical, solvent, or liquid threat to either humans or the models...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Just tried it for the first time

After all the discussion on No-ox, and havin9g discovered that I can buy it (actually, a comparable product called Noalox) at my local Lowe's, I decided to give it a try.

My first impression is that it's black and greasy.  It actually looks a lot like flange lubricator grease, and I suspect (never having seen the real thing) friction bearing grease.  It's greasy and goopy, but railroads have some greasy goopy aspects, so no problem there if it works.

Yesterday, I spread it on a 2' length of rail (freshly cleaned with a bright boy) and put a brass drivered Model Power 2-8-0 on to run back and forth as a test.  The first impression is that it's an immediate improvement - the engine ran more reliably than before (given that I've not cleaned the wheels since I bought it a few weeks ago).  I then left everything sitting and went to work.

This morning, I came in and ran the engine back and forth on the track again.  I even ran it onto some additional tracks that had not been cleaned in a month or more.  I have to say, I am impressed that it ran quite reliably even on untreated, uncleaned track.  I then took a masonite pad and cleaned the rail heads or any excess grease, leaving the rails nice and shiny.

When I turned the engine over, it looked like the drivers were a little brighter than before.  I'll definitely try polishing them and re-treating for best effect, but even dirty the stuff was working well.  However, I learned an important lesson.  Noalox and rubber traction tires DO NOT mix!  I had completely forgotten that the engine has traction tires on the tender, and those tires are now swollen, split, and gummy.  If I don't replace the wheels, I'll definitely have to replace the tires.

Overall, my first impression is fairly positive.  It seems to help maintain continuity, and I am encouraged to expand my trial to the remainder of the yard and more locomotives.  I will have to be careful, though, as I do have a couple more engines with traction tires.

ou might check with traction tires after the no-ox

treated rail has been wiped dry after the 24 hour period has passed.  It may be that the only problem with traction tires and no-ox is when no-ox is in it's greasy state.  I can't speak form experience because having a traction tire on a locomotive is reason enough for me to pass on it.

Ken- here's a thought about tires

I applied the No-Ox to the loco wheels with a micro-brush.  First I cleaned the wheels to my satisfaction, then applied the coating and left it to sit for 24 hours.  Then I wiped it off with a cotton cloth, nice and clean.

After applying it to the track I did not run anything until I also wiped off the track.  Everything was dry before I ran wheels on the tracks.

Perhaps in this manner you can protect the traction tires from getting the material on them.

Note that the No-Ox doesn't dry during the 24 hour time.  Reportedly the time is needed for it to "do it's thing" with the metal wheels or rails.  You do need to wipe it off, especially as you found traction tires don't like it.

Specific traction tire instructions somewhere

I'll have to look around my old N scale haunt and see if I can find the post but I seem to recall that my friend Gary made up a specific set of instructions for using NO-OX on layouts where traction tires were in use. All the time I was using it, I was running diesels. I didn't get infected with steamers disease till just recently! I remember though that Gary had certain cautions about traction tires. Also, NO-OX and NOAlox may be similar but they are not exactly the same compound, I remember Gary telling me as much because I asked him about it after spotting the same stuff at Lowes.

Michael

NO-OX

Well, I experimented with my idea of applying NO-OX to a rail joint and following that with soldering the same connection (in case the NO-OX "failed" over time).  It worked!  

I used NO-OX-ID supplied by Bar-Mills, Radio Shack 60-40 rosin core solder of .032" diameter and a 25W Radio Shack iron.  I cleaned the rail end (can't really clean well inside the joiner) and applied the NO-OX to both the rail and the joiner.  After 24 hrs≠ I wiped both (again, the joiner is somewhat problematic, though I scraped out what I could with a toothpick) and soldered them together without difficulty or damage to the plastic ties (W/S flex).

Dante

No-ox is in no way a solder replacement

No-ox-id is not considered a conductor nor does it inhibit the electron flow it simply keeps the contacts corrosion free so they can allow the connectors to do their job without the corrosion inhibiting the electronic path and it doesn't replace soldering rail joints or any other soldering.

Best way to Kill an electric motor is to coat the inside and the brushes with Oil, Grease, Or No-ox which contains both.

"No-Ox-Id A-Special" The electrical contact anti Oxidation surface protector is in no way a substitute for solder or soldered joints. It is not even considered an electronic conductor.

"No-ox-id A-Special"  is a corrosion preventer and surface protector for metals exposed to the elements.

This product when put inside an electric Model Railroad motor (or any electric Motor) will cause the carbon brushes to break down and literally fall apart if put on in a heavy coating and not wiped completely and thoroughly clean before electrical current is run through the motor. It will smoke and can even catch fire.

DO NOT EXTINGUISH ANY FIRE OF No-ox-id with water it will cause an EXPLOSION!!!!!

I just spent the last 2 hours reading EVERYTHING I could find about "No-ox-id A-Special" which is designed for keeping electrical connections exposed to the environment corrosion free.

These Two following web sites gave some of the best information: First

http://stormgrounding.electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/no-ox-id.html?gclid=CNWNz6_Ita8CFcXc4AodLlUAjA

Second scroll to the bottom of this listing for a couple pdf's with great information on No-ox-id and the MSDS sheet

http://www.northtowncompany.com/msdsnorthtown.html

if you want to lubricate and add corrosion protection to any electric motor that you want to keep moving parts like in a rheostat of potentiometer where one surface rubs against another to acquire varied electrical out put or input then I suggest you use a product designed especially for that purpose such as CRC 2-26.  CRC 2-26 is made to be sprayed on and saturate electric motors. It requires that the motor is allowed to dry for at least 24-48 hours before using or applying any power to the motor. The reason to allow it to dry is so the solvents totally evaporate leaving only the corrosion preventive in the 2-26 behind and I have used the CRC 2-26 extensively.

No-ox and model railroading:

Like many products on the market Model railroaders will and have find a way to adapt it for use on our Railroads.

Just keep in mind the main thing use "Safety and Common cents" and READ the instructions on the packaging and then check with the MRH forums and get some advice from the many great people here and then follow the advice we get from our fellow Model Railroaders that have used the product for some time.

Personally I use "No-ox-id A-Special" on my Rails and CRC 2-26 on all my Engines on the Wheels, Motors, connectors and DCC plugs between the Engine & Tenders also on the axles that have electrical pickups.

For the past 14 months the only thing I have put on my tracks is my trains. Once a week I run my 3 Masonite equipped Box Cars that have had the pads soaked in CRC 2-26 and drag the rails from one end to the other and I run the vacuum over all rails on the entire layout once every two to three weeks or after doing any kind of work on the RR as I still need to add 1200 Plus trees and 4 times that many shrubs  and bushes not to mention Grass.

Dan

No-Ox

I applied No-Ox to my track 8 years ago, have enjoyed skip free (NO stalls) running, and have NOT cleaned my track, or had to reapply it, since then.

I developed and wrote the application method and directions for Sanchem (the maker of No-Ox) and is also used by Bar Mills. I was not paid or reimbursed in any way by Sanchem.

I have noticed in several posts here that the directions have NOT been followed correctly. ALL STEPS ARE VERY IMPORTANT AND NONE SHOULD BE SKIPPED.

The following is an excerpt from one of the many articles I have written on No-Ox:

Sanchem (the maker of No-Ox) makes several variants; the one you want is NO-OX-ID “A SPECIAL”. To properly treat metals with No-Ox, a very small amount is used on the surface or surfaces. A waiting period of 24 to 48 hours allows the chemical process to take place, after which ALL TRACES OF THE PRODUCT ARE WIPED OFF, or otherwise removed.

In my case, scenery was completed and all track was ballasted before applying. I felt that getting the track dirty after application would affect its performance, but it didn’t matter.

All contaminants such as plaster, glue, or oil, should be removed prior to No-Ox application. The steps below are all VERY important and none should be skipped.
1. Use a mild abrasive such as fine sandpaper or a brite boy on all rails to remove any oxidation.
2. Wipe all rails with a rag and alcohol to remove any dirt and fine particles.
3. Vacuum all rails to ensure cleanliness.
4. Put very thin smears on your finger and rub it on your rails. The total amount of NO-OX-ID “A SPECIAL” that should be applied to 500’ of N scale track is about ¼ teaspoon. If you can SEE No-Ox on rails, you are putting TOO MUCH on! DO NOT APPLY MORE!
5. Run all your locomotives, EXCEPT ONES WITH TRACTION TIRES, (no rolling stock yet) over all of your track for at least 2 hours. You may notice some wheel slippage and skipping, (DO NOT PANIC) this ensures that all wheels get treated with No-Ox.
6. Remove all locomotives from track and wipe all rails with a clean rag to remove any excess product. Don’t scrub, just rub.
7. Wait 24 hours.
8. Wipe rails again. Rag will be black.
9. For locos with traction tires, turn them upside down, connect track power so that wheels turn. Put a small dab of No-Ox on a Q-tip and apply to all wheels that DON’T have traction tires. While wheels are still turning, use a clean Q-tip to remove any excess No-Ox.
10. Run trains and forget about cleaning your track except for occasional light vacuuming.

THE ABOVE 10 STEPS WERE REVISED 6-10 TO ADDRESS TRACTION TIRE ISSUES AND ARE NOT INCLUDED IN BAR MILLS DIRECTIONS.
 

In all cases where problems are encountered it is due to over-application and not wiping off rails.  FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS EXPLICITLY !

Kevin!

....

Who are you to tell him where he's wrong and he should delete what you think is wrong?

It makes perfect sense to reapply no-ox seasonally, regular running will re-expose the metal surface to the air [scratch it] and that will lead to...well, oxidation...

It's not mis-information if people actually do it.

You can re-apply No-Ox as

You can re-apply No-Ox as often as you like, but after 8 years of experience, as well as over 100 testimonials from very happy users, you will find that it is not necessary.