Eeek.

My immediate thought is, "Isolate it and give it it's own PSX-AR...." perhaps not the most inexpensive of solutions, but I suspect it would work.

Shinohara 3-Way

I have one on my layout and I am running DCC. I had no problems with mine. Just make sure that the frogs are isolated and it will work just fine.

As is?

I usually don't do anything to my Shinohara turnouts for DCC use.  The only shorts I experience are due to operator error running through a turnout thrown the wrong way, not from the turnout itself.  If you plan to use long wheelbase steamers or otherwise have shorting problems with "non DCC friendly" points, you could isolate the frogs, install new throwbars, and add jumpers.  If this thing was on my layout I'd most likely just feed the stock rails and call it good.

New or Old?

If it's an old vintage turnout then wiring is an issue.

If it's one of the new ones (less than 3 or 4 years old) just hook it up.  The frogs are DCC safe.

I think the engine service tracks at South Jackson are hooked up to a new-generation Walthers/Shin 3-way and no problems there -- at least not that I know of...

Charlie

Ummm

It was on a layout built in 1976, so, no, not really recent production.

Seems like a lot of work

Ugh!  Been there, done that, and I'll not be doing it again any time soon.  I built a switching module using Shinohara code 70 turnouts, and decided in my infinite wisdom to convert them to be DCC friendly, with switched polarity on the frogs and points that match the polarity of the adjacent stock rails - AKA DCC friendly.

The results?  Points that occasionally slip off of the fixed point rail because I soldered the ends to circuit board throwbars, and one end HAS to move.  The frogs were a PITA to isolate and solder feeders to, and of course I had to solder 4 jumpers per turnout - two across the frog and two across the joints in the point rails.  They work, but it was a lot more work that I'd care to do again.  I spent about 30 minutes per turnout, working on the bench before laying the track.

My suggestion would be to just use them as-is.  The only real danger is that you could get a short between a point and a stock rail if a metal wheel bridges the gap.  If it becomes a problem, or if you think it will, either replace the turnout now or make it DCC friendly.

Comments

The point to rail electrical connection in the stock turnout is shaky at best and will become a problem over time like every other Shinohara or turnout of similar manufacture.  Two ways to handle this:  the less time consuming way is to connect the points to the frog and switch the frog(s) and the other way is to rework the points so they can be connected to the stock rails.

As stated the 2nd option is a PITA, but it can result in a much better looking turnout. One complaint noted earlier is the soldering of the points to the throwbar.  This can be mitigated by cutting the bar connecting the points into two short pieces and pinning them to an insulating throwbar.  The points can then pivot on the throwbar.  Calipers are a necessary tool to get this together properly. 

I have done point connections both ways and the only problem is breaking of the solder connection at the point end due to the pressure of the throw mechanism.  I believe I have a fix by adding a small piece of brass to reinforce that connection.

Note that only two of the frogs are used at any one time so two of them can be connected together.  In the picture, I believe it should be the lower two. 

Small diameter wire can be used as a flexible joint and to hold the points in relation to the closure rail.  I set the point throw to the maximum width of a guardrail, approximately 0.060".  A quick check on a #6 turnout shows a 0.005" sideways movement at 1/2 the length of a rail joiner at the closure rail end.  This small deflection has raised no problems on any turnout over 20 years and several layouts, two of which were 500 square feet.  I don't have a good way to measure the angle of the movement but with an 0.060 throw at the angle can't be much and appears to be well within the flexibility of the small wire as I have not had any fractures over time.

Terry

Isolating a 3 way turnout

When laying my Shinohara 3 way turnout (at least the second place!) I replaced the tie bars with insulated ones and gaped the turnout so single a micro switch on each tie bar could switch the frogs.

Mike Ruby

I had an idea..

I was thinking about this the other day at work.  Specifically, the throwbar is a problem.  Finally it occurred to me that there might be a simple way to modify it.

Start with the unmodified turnout, with the throwbar thrown in one direction.  Drill a hole fairly close to the point, through the metal tie bar and the plastic throwbar underneath.  Insert a piece of brass wire through the hole, and carefully solder it to the tie bar.  throw the turnout and do the same for the other side.  Using a cutoff wheel, remove the center section of the tie bar and pivot rivet.

Wish I'd thought of that before I replaced the throwbars on all my Shinohara turnouts.

Installat;ion of Shinohara 3 Way Code 83

Installation of Shinohara 3 Way

The pictures above show my layout where I installed a Shinohara 3 Way Turnout.  I had a standard Code 83 Three Way turnout which was not DCC friendly.  I changed it to a DCC friendly one.  These are the test results:

No frog power-short wheelbase diesels ran through most of the time on DC.

No frog power- steam engines stalled at frogs on DC

Powered frogs - all diesels ran through all the time very slowly, no stalls on DC

Powered frogs -all steam ran through all the time very slowly, no stalls on DC

No frog power - all diesels ran through all the time very slowly on DCC

No frog power -all steam stalled at frogs on DCC

Powered frogs -all diesels ran through all the time very slowly on DCC

Powered frogs -all steam ran though all the time very slowly on DCC

Only the two closer frogs were powered.  The intermediate frog closest to the station was not powered.  It does not seem to matter.

Conclusions:

Diesels due to their long wheelbase and pickup on both sides of the trucks will not lose power on the Shinohara 3 Way turnout.  There are jumpers under the ties that tie the corresponding stock and closure rails to keep power on the tracks outside of the frog area.  Even an HH660 is long enough to retain power over a dead frog on this turnout.

Steam will stall because only one side of the locomotive picks up so a dead frog will stop the locomotive at some point running through the turnout.

The intermediate frog not powered is so short even the steamers can make it through.  That frog has a wire soldered to it but it is just hanging down under the layout.  If It requires power in the future I can connect it to the micro-switches on the turnout motors.

I hope this helps.

Tom

Shinohara 3-Way Frog Power

I have converted four code 83 3-ways to DCC friendly.  Yes, it takes about 30 minutes at the work bench in order to isolate the frogs and jump power to the various (non-frog) rails.  I cut out a few of the plastic ties in strategic places and then use PC board ties to get power to the rails.  But I don't use micro-switches to power the frogs.

The frogs are powered by frog juicers.  If you don't know what these are, go find them at Tam Valley and read up.  Since all my track switches are manual, I have no contacts on switch machines to power the frogs.  The frog juicers work right the first time, every time.  If you follow the pattern of the rails you will see that the frogs need be divided into only TWO parts, one short and one long.  On the long frog even most diesels models will die.  With the frog juicers, this is not an issue.

Alternate solution

After doing a bunch of HO and HOn3 switches as described in the other posts - cut and isolate the frogs, wire the points and tie them into a Tortoise... I decided when I went to the 3 way switch to do it the easy way... I bought a Walthers DCC friendly 83 three way. Now, I only have to do is wire the frogs to my tortoise - sounds like a zoo doesn't it? All my track is code 70 so I added the 70/83 rail joiners and that 70/83 transistion really is not noticiable after painting and ballasting. 

I do wish Shinohara would upgrade their design to DCC compatibility. It is almost as quick to scratch build a switch as it is to fix one of theirs. 

I only use frog juicers for my non-moving HO-HOn3 dual to single track splitting switches. 

My token Shinohara 3 ways are code 70

Don't Walthers do code 70 any more?

Walthers vs. Shinohara

Shinohara makes the code 83 line for Walthers.  They also make code 70 and code 100 that is marketed under their own name.  Only the code 83 trackwork has been upgraded to be "DCC friendly".  Unfortunately, I haven't heard of any plans to eventually upgrade the other sizes.

-Jack