Curved frogs

Nicely done. I have done several curved turnouts using my Fast Tracks jig. I like knowing about your options. Thanks for the tip on the Dremel discs.

Thank you very much.

Wayne

Frogs

I like to lay the stock rails first to get the line, then the frog rails can be fitted to match the stock rails more easily. You just position them where the tip of the frog point is in gauge to both stock rails.

  "lay the stock rails first

and if you are spiking rail to ties you can just spike the frog rails in gauge and then slide them forward or backwards till you get the best fit.(if you are soldering rail to pc board ties you can't slide the rails so must do the fore and aft adjustment first) . A big advantage of laying the stock rails first is you don't need to decide on a frog number, you just layout the rails for the route you want then lay the frog to match, with no care what number it turns out....DaveB

Curved frogs aren't really right

Prototypically, frogs would always be straight anyway, except on streetcar systems. Of course they'd be using much wider curves than we do in models, so maybe some other changes are reasonable! I'm happy enough with the mitered method of building frogs, but the coved approach is the prototypical method, and I've seen British modelers do it. As Dave says, it's easy to get the frog properly placed if you're able to slide the rails in and out until it's in correct gauge both sides. But then you have to accept that the location of the frog isn't going to be exactly known in advance, which is a problem if you're being prototypical with the tie spacing--they should be closer under the frog, though I don't do it. You seem to use a single length of ties, presumably with the idea of trimming them all as a later step. You can look up the number of ties you need for all the various lengths (usually they cut them in 6in increments) for a standard switch, but that doesn't work well for a curved turnout. When it's a regular #6 or #8 turnout, I try to make them as regular as possible, with the idea that in the real world, a railroad would want the process to be economical, and the way to do that would be to send the crew out with a "standard kit" for each turnout.

  "a railroad would want the

Yeah, I've seen railroad spec sheets showing the number of ties, their spacing, length, etc. for standardized turnouts. The problem using them for layout design is most prototype turnouts are longer and less sharp than most layouts require( the real railroads have a lot more space to play in) ......DaveB

Prototype

I found a P&R 1922 MofW rule book that has switch diagrams down to a #3.

Ties

I lay my ties with the ends even with the diverging side of the switch.  That way when it comes time to trim them, if its a conventional switch, I just put a straight edge along the straight side and cut them with a sharp utility knife, or if its a curved switch I can use a straight edge and cut 4-6 ties in a single cut.  Much faster than laying to the straight side and having to cut each tie off at a custom length.

Well, the thread was about

Well, the thread was about frogs, not ties, but I feel the need to point out that, as I understand things, at least some if not most North American prototypes use stepped-length ties, where all prototype ties are multiples of 6" long, and several of the exact same length are used in a turnout before moving up to the next-longer length as the track diverges. 

Here's a pic of the tie arrangement I'm talking about (in a walthers turnout with a fugly frog)

Ties can be easily hand-laid in this arrangement the same way Dave does it - by placing the ties with the diverging route end exactly where it should be (to create the length steps) while having the straight-route tie ends stick out raggedly, then cutting off all ties on the straight-route side using a straight-line cut the correct distance from the straight stock rail after the rail is laid.

Paper templates do help

EW, you're repeating what I said earlier.

For turnouts with a straight side, I lay them out over a paper template, using pre-cut ties that I keep in a box filled with little plastic jars. Every time it's so many 9-foot ones, so many 9-foot-6-inch ones, and so on out to the end; the longest ones are the 16-footers. But curved turnouts are all unique, and that makes it a pain. Plus there's no template to aid with spacing the ties, so I tend to do it just a certain number to the inch. And I often do stick them down, then come back and trim the ends, because the white glue only stays usable for a few minutes. I've said over and over that I ought to learn Martin Wynne's Templot program, and then I'd have templates for every situation! But I never get around to it.

stepped-length ties

Yeah, that's ther common way to lay them.  One can cut a bunch of ties to standard lengths then glue them down as needed or can cut them when gluing them down or glue them first and cut them later. I don't like to glue and cut the straight side as I like a little variation in the tie ends so I usually just cut them as I go using a Zona saw and a homemade little miter box. I build my turnouts on a roadbed that is cut to be the outside of the ties average line so it's easy to figure out when to step the ties to a shorter length. For tie spacing I just make some tic marks along the center of the roadbed and square up the ties by eye like I used to watch the SP track gangs do back when I was a kid.......DaveB

Same method

I have handlaid a few special turnout for my N scale layout with special curves or frog angle to fit a special place

I use the yard stick method to determine the frog angle place and rail , I begun to lay track from this point

I use the similar method, just the rail of the outside route is already filed in the inner side ; I use a FT frog tool number #12 to file the rail, and I spike and solder it in place with pc ties.

A remark here all my rail frog are filed with this #12 tool including the one I use to build a #6 turnout frog in a FT jig; this give especially sharp frog with fine running qualities

The diverging second rail of the frog is also filed but on a relatively long place and put in place against the first one to form the frog, when happy with the design,I solder and spike this rail like the first one

I use also a simple method for the frog power, I drill a small hole between the two rail frog, put a tinned wire with solder; the end of the wire is put between the two rail frog and I solder the frog with full solder including  the wire in the solder.

The frog excess rail is cut with a small nipper and filled carefully ( code 55 ME)

Gauge is checked and the turnout is build over as usual; I use pc board and build the turnout like a FT one with full lenght points rails

I don't try to build a special number of frog in these case, don't care about it, just a turnout which fit my needs

I just follow the place and the space available, probably some are #10 and some other bigger; they just run fine

templates, what are they???

i have been free-handing all my stuff so trimming the ties will happen on the finished product. As Dave mentioned I don't know the number of the turnout, and am blissfully unaware of prototypical methods, since they don't have to squeeze miles of action into a 6 foot diameter dog-bone end, and I am trying to accomplish lots in a space that is a few feet too narrow to have more tangent areas.

when I tried laying the frog first I ended up with too many problems.

As a glutton for punishment and a newbie I chose code 70 rail and code 88 wheels, so precision is paramount. Even the longer wheelbase passenger trucks were having issues compared to shorter ones.

here the main up grade continues to the visible layout, with the staging reverse loop splitting off and heading back down to the bottom of the modules.

 These are in my hidden staging area and need to be bulletproof so I am trying to make sure they work well before moving on. Here I tried the camouflage paint suggested by others. I am also using buffing compound on a dremel fabric buffing wheel for track cleaning after

i realize in the future I need to predrill the frog wire earlier so it can be hidden in the solder, the drill bit fit quite a ways back on these.

I let the ties be quite long here only because I was playing with the curves as  I went along, trying to make them as smooth as possible and to get the point rails in a good spot. 

I have really been enjoying the build and thanks to all the info on all the threads. It's fantastic to come down to the cave after a day of other projects and build a turnout while listening to the Brewers, and sipping an adult beverage.

As soon as the first  long grade coming out of staging is gapped and wired I'll post a series of module build pictures. I need to make sure my locos can pull my strings up to the top level before cutting the splines apart at the breaks.

It’s your layout ...

Cliche but true and in staging we want thing to run flawlessly so prototype accuracy isn’t important. I’ve done my frogs and ties so many different ways that it would be hard to say that there is a right way as long as it works. Dave’s method is fine but I don’t like filing the solder. It does make a nice joint though. Lately I’ve been making the frog separately but pre-bend the rails to match the underlying drawing to fit and, yes, laying the stock rails first will help minimize pain to the temporal cortex!

Here are a couple shots of track in my staging:

Under construction

Here's one of mine, with a second one in the background. Of course it's incomplete, but you can see the mitered construction of the frog. It's also clear that the ballast is done before the rails! That Woodland Scenics "Fine Gray" ballast is kind of boring, though.