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I like using the knob to scroll and navigate in the menus. The thumb switch is not very convenient for me to navigate scrolling lists.

I actually prefer buttons, My

I actually prefer buttons, My current throttle is a mobile computer with the 2.25 x 4 inch touch screen and all the controls are on the screen.

I've come to prefer buttons

I've come to prefer buttons as well. I prefer the granular control and don't consider the potentiometer being like an old throttle to be a positive.

I'm OK with encoders too.

Pot vs encoder

Back when they first came out I bought an NCE cab0?e - the one with the encoder and the little toggle on the top to chose between two running trains.  I wanted to like the encoder.  I didn't.  I ended up giving that throttle to a friend.  I like a pot with a well defined beginning and end.  I won't buy an encoder throttle again, no matter how cool it's other features are.  Just personal preference.

I'm really glad you guys are doing a pot version of the UWT-50.

I guess if you only run one

I guess if you only run one train at a time, a pot could be OK.   

But if you're running multiple trains, with anything like recall button, an encoder works much better.  Don't actually know if you can do it with a pot. 

I would think you would get abrupt speed changes when alternating between a couple of trains.

edited for this addition:   I should probably note, the NCE Cab06 encoder has tactile detents that "click" every few degrees.  These seem to correspond to some number of speed steps.  Unless I turn the knob very fast, this gives me enough feedback.  Even though there is no "hard stop" at 0, it doesn't bother me to turn the knob an extra few degrees.  I stop the locomotive with the brakes, not the throttle knob.

I have used other encoder throttles on other layouts that don't have the detents.  It has taken longer to get used to them.  But after a bit they are fine.

On my own layout the preferred throttles, in order, are: The Protothrottle, the NCE Hammerhead using buttons, The Cab06 encoder version.  If I'm testing something I'm more likely to grab the cell phone, since it's in my pocket.

Just my opinion. gs

Potentiometer

I ordered two UWT-50ps. I've become interested in operating with realistic momentum and I plan to get a ProtoThrottle, but I won't have multiple ProtoThrottles so I need other throttles that can operate realistically. Locomotives programmed to work with a ProtoThrottle will not work properly with an encoder, as you either have to crank and crank and crank or you lose track of where you are but they will work with a potentiometer or the pushbuttons on the UWT. The pot is also very different from the UWT-100, if I'm going to use an encoder I'd rather use a thumb wheel than a big knob, plus I want something different for my "knobby" throttles. Locomotives programmed for PT will not work with a DT100/300/400, but they will work with the UWT-100, UWT-50p, UT4R, and of course the PT itself. I'm disappointed that the industry is moving mostly to encoders and glad that TCS is doing a potentiometer model. I have no interest in encoder-based "knobby" throttles like the Cab06 or UT6.

Encoder for me

I like the encoders, i like how you can use it and the built-in button to navigate through menus easily: no need to move fingers of the button for a confirm or cancel action. And as mentioned: when switching between multiple locomotives the encoder version would never suddenly change the speed of the locomotive if you forget to first set the speed dial to zero before selecting the second locomotive.

AlexW: I'm splitting hairs here, but the Protothrottle uses encoders. The SW hides that fact from you.

Hiding encoders in SW can be done for the UWT50 too: No reason for them to not allow the encoder to be able to do a quicker ramp up for multiple clicks by counting up faster depending on how fast you move between clicks, while slow moves do slow increments. Or simply implement a "protothrottle" setting for specific selected locomotive profiles. Getting this slow/fast ramp-up behavior with a potentiometer would be near impossible to program unless it has no end stop (ie, is allowed to rotate 360 degree+).

Pot for switching

When I am switching and spotting cars I am watching the movement, not the throttle.  I need the assurance of the pot hitting the stop to know the speed is set to zero and loco will stop when momentum runs out.  I operate the knob on my UT4 in my left hand with my thumb.  The reversing switch is flipped with my thumb or index finger without looking at the throttle.  I know direction setting by feeling the switch with my thumb or finger.  One hand, no look operation.

Pot and Multiple Trains

We have some ideas on how to handle the potentiometer when you switch between trains. The train won't suddenly change speeds. We're thinking that you'll need to match the pot position to the current speed of the loco before the pot will become active again.

The potentiometer we chose also has a detent at the half-way position, and we plan to use that for switching mode. Counter clockwise from there will increase the speed in reverse, and clockwise from there will increase the speed forward.

We haven't implemented either of these yet, so need to see how they feel, but we're pretty sure we can make something work for both of these. What I really like about the pot is being able to know what the target speed is based on feel. That means I can operate trains, including switching, with one hand without looking at the throttle. That leaves my other hand free for coupling and uncoupling.

UWT 50

I like the encoders. I've found using my UWT-100's that I use the encoder while holding the handset down by my side. Easy to hit the direction button and change direction and speed while not looking at the handset. This way I can watch the loco moving around and adjust speed easily. ----- Ken 

ProtoThrottle

The ProtoThrottle is a whole different paradigm of how to operate a train. I don't have anything against the technology of encoders, rather using them on a model railroad throttle in a big wheel. I even like the thumbwheel on the UWT-100.

Speed Pot + DIR switch, accept no substitutes

Dear MRHers,

Both professionally and in modelling, I've used both Pots and Encoders,
and from a "positive deterministic" user-application standpoint, I'll take a Pot every time...

That said:

Echoes of some pro audio consoles I've used (and been involved with the design/manuf of) previously. Commonly such "current pot position VS switched-to SW value mismatch" was "handled" by the pot
(or "encoder with hard end stops" a la Fairlight Constellation console, have seen both used in such applications)

having to be swept _down_below_ the "current software value",
(which, of course, the User has no idea-of in-the-heat-of-the-moment)

and then raised back UP to "catch" the current value and "lock-on"...
(Read: the User  is reduced to hitting-the-Minimum-stop and whipping back-up as-fast-as-possible out of sheer blind "regain control NOW" panic...)

...of course, if the Pot A> D stage (or encoder IR stage) wasn't fast enough to keep-up with the "whip" movement, and/or "skipped some values",
(bad/"grainy" pot track, bad A> D stage, low A> D samplerate, bandwidth packet-drops, etc etc)
 
it could be entirely possible to have-to do the "sweep Down, and back Up" move a few times,
until the incoming stream of Pot values were "caught" and matched as-expected...
(bad in the heat of a Hollywood-level Post Production session,
arguably worse as that $$$$ brass loco heads towards the floor...)

I should also note, 
"...one brain, one throttle, one loco/consist at a time..."
words to live buy...
(The UT4/Cab04e switchable "dual cab" throttles always struck me as a
"...we do, because we can, because we're using an encoder..." bonus-feature,
rather than based on any proper-defined "One brain, divided-between two-part-time throttles in one box" use-case...)

Sorry, bit that's a Hard Pass for me...

0<> Max full/smooth-rotation (NO detent!) with a direction switch/button is the only mode I want or need to see.
Doing a "centre-off" reduces the 0<> Max speed resolution for each direction (IE Deg per SpeedStep),
and introduces "whoops, rotated the knob too-far, now going backwards" errors which simply shouldn't be a designed-in issue. I mean, we left "centre-off" controllers with the H&M Duette of the 1970s...

...having a "centre-off pot" also introduces "pot calibration" issues where the "halves" may not track equally,
with resulting value/speed mismatches in each direction...
(ask anyone who's engineered a L<> R "Pan Pot" control for audio equipment,
it's a complete product torpedo if "100% Left" on the Pan pot =/= actual 100% signal at Left Output Only, 
and vice versa...)

...oh, and "Left to go left, Right to go right, Centre off" is as eye/hand/output-device irrelevant as "east/west" is on a DCC system...
(IE where the loco-direction and track-orientation direction are entirely disconnected and independent,
and further seperate from the relative position of the Operator to the current Loco Position).

I was involved in the dev of the Fairlight (and subsequent BlackMagic Design) "Pyxis" controllers, with electro-mechanical "Jog/Shuttle" knobs. Much like the old Sony BetaCam broadcast VTRs of yore, this knob was a free-rotate encoder under "jog" mode, but a single "punch" would trigger it into centre-off spring-return "shuttle" mode. Sony spent much time/effort/$$$$$$ to get theirs to be the "gold standard" in environments and applications with a lot more on the line than Model RRing, and the FL/BMD experience proved to me why this was the case...
...in short, don't try to 1/2-a** both modes, focus on doing one of the modes really-well, unless you have a Sony sized team and budget to play with...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Pot, Period

A pot, absolutely.  And the finger indent in the knob that starts at ~ 7-o'clock with the throttle at zero, 12-o'clock at half throttle, etc.  Two different knobs not needed.

And Ditto what the Prof said above.

Had some encoder (Arduino) throttles for visitors and they would continue to spin trying to get the train to go faster, and continue to spin trying to slow/stop the train as the momentum carried the train forward.  Replaced them all with pots and it is a much more enjoyable experience for the operators.  Momentum and encoders cause problems.

Both of my UWT50's will have pots.

YMMV

I ordered the Pot.

I've got a couple of encoder throttles, one of which is really sloppy, the other is the UWT-100. The thing I'm just not in love with on them is having to look at the throttle to know that I've got it to zero. Or max. 

Brake position/button

I'm using both potentiometer (DCS51) and buttons (Android joystick for EngineDriver). The pot is nice for one train, but a pain if using recall. Therefore, the DCS51 is dedicated to just one loco in operation, the joystick handle two others.

In both cases, the brake position/button is a very important feature. With the Zephyr, at slow speed, most movement can be done with just brake and then reverse.

With the joystick, I don't care to know where I'm on the throttle (expect when DCC misbehaves), I have assigned a button to set speed to 0, very effective, but the momentum still needed to be keep in mind.

RE: Brake position/button

@ pby_fr, I like to set up the left thumb switch so down adds breaking and up releases the break. With momentum, this a a very poor cousin to the ProtoThrottle, for sure, but it's still a nice experience.

Regarding recall, we're committed to ensuring that recall won't suddenly change the speed of your loco, as we know that make recall a bad experience.

POT throttle for me

I ordered the pot version.   I want hard stops for throttle so I don't have to "guess" where 0,  mid-range, and max are.   I have the UWT-100 and look forward to the -50.

ProtoThrottle

The one thing that the UWT can't do that the PT can is variable braking. That's one for Balazs though. Otherwise, I can control PT-programmed locomotives (1000km away nonetheless) with extremely fine control. The braking occasionally causes short stops and then I have to notch up to notch 1 for the last couple of feet.

I'm particularly interested in PT-programmed operation on non-PT throttles, as I want to get a PT, and program all my operating locomotives for it, but having 3 or 4 PTs for all my operators isn't in the budget, so a UWT-100, UWT-50, or UT4R have to be able to control them reasonably well. That would give me 7 operating throttles, plus 5 DTx00R throttles for my collection, so now I need to get to building a bigger layout!

OT PT-config'd locos on Non-PT throttles

Dear Alex,

As long as You:

Edict 1 - Keep the CV3 and 4 Momentum settings "appropriate"
(and no, this does NOT mean "neuter them" as compared to PT-spec settings...
...and remembering that it's often the Operator's mindset that percieves of a given Momentum setting being "Too much/not-enough/just-right", NOT the actual empirical Momentum value itself!)

Edict 2 - Make the conscious decision from-the-outset to map the Functions with a "backwards compatibility"/"first-order-access to Logical/Natural manual functions on F0-9" mindset

(NB that you can easily map funcctions which the PT requires to be "separated out",
but are not "manual/first-order access required" above F9,
the PT does not care,
and the Human Operators won't notice if the functions-to-be-mapped are chosen appropriately!)

there is no reason why a "PT-configured loco" should be "un-drivable" on a "normal" DCC throttle...

FWIW, I run 2x PTs, a range of NCE throttles, and occasionally a Droid smartphone "UI",
(when I'm feeling particuarly lazy, and can ignore the self-imposed flail marks on my back),

and have a number of locos programmed following the above edicts.
In contrast, I see umpteen numbers of "Help, how do I...?" requests on various PT contacts,
which could be fundamentally resolved at-source if the modeller had only stopped to consider the 2nd piece of advice listed above, from the outset...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PT-config'd locos on Non-PT throttles

I'm planning to basically map functions for the UT4Rs, as they have the most limited physical interfaces in terms of functions. They should work just fine with the others.

A PT-configured loco is horrible on a DT400 or similar throttle. You crank and crank and crank that encoder one way and then the other. Awful. Works fine with the UWT-100 using pushbuttons mapped to the notches, should be fine on any potentiometer-based throttle, crank the throttle to where you want it, and then back off. 

OT PT-config'd locos on Non-PT throttles

Interesting thoughts Prof!  We've found with remote Engineers doing switching ops, that keeping CV3 to "appropriate" matters more than reducing CV4.  The operator's mindset is key as you say.  

Several remote Engineers operate my layout each week with ProtoThrottles, smartphones and the excellent UWT (Alex!).  All my locos are LS5 DCC with CV4 set to 255 and CV24 maxed out also for most realistic sense of mass and momentum with PT. For the PT users it's the same "feel" as local ops, except for the remote connection lag. That's between about 0.5 secs in North Ameica and 1.5 secs in Australia.

For the users of other throttles, there's a leap of faith required to grasp the startling fact that their locos don't slow noticeably when they turn their throttle down a few speed steps or even close the throttle completely.  

But as long as they knew the brake is to hand on F7, they have all learned in 10-15 minutes practice how to use F7 "on", or "on-off-on" from further out, to get their locos stopped and make nice joints.  That's including learning the connection lag as well.  Indeed several have said they're now going to try maxing CV4 and using the brake on their own layouts.   

Being able to hear the sounds of the locos is increasingly important too as the remote Engineers get more into the "gun it and coast for a while, then play the brake in to the joint" way of switching.  That's the same need as being in the room I think.     

The problems arose when I decided to add a lot more CV3 above my usual 25 or 30 (LS5 DCC = NMRA spec). The combination of extra lag in the locos gathering speed and the remote connection lag caused the Engineers to Notch up too far and then have trouble getting stopped again accurately.  

Apologies to the OP for being way OT. 

Pete      

ArduMaus

About 2 years ago I did interesting project.

It is compatible with Arduino Nano board. Added Nokia cellphone display and buttons. It contain sliding potentiometer. Sliding potentiometer is more natural than others. Then it contain "jog dialer" (thumb controlled rotary encoder) and joystick.

Some details: http://diskuze.modely.biz/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11963&start=30#p254252