The downside of having a fueling facility on the mainline

Is that it blocks the mainline for the duration of the fueling/sanding resupply event.  Maybe OK on a shortline with not much traffic, but I get the feeling that this would be a safety hazard on most railroads and at the very least it would halt operations on the mainline in that area.  In my limited opinion, it would be preferable from an operating standpoint to set the facility up with a single used track on a siding, with the second track either a dummy or with the rails pulled up and palletized storage and supplies (such as a fuel truck or two) set in the spot where the unused track would go.

Janet N.

Mainline Fueling

Mainline fueling locations are pretty common, They are located in central locations where there would be a LOT of trains passing through.

Mainline sanding facilities are not as common, but do exist.  The  risk with sanding facilities is clearing auto racks and double stacks or wide loads.

A mainline fueling station would be on a line where the runs were in the 500-1000 mile range.   They would be at the limit of the range of the engines.  They are used to avoid having to swap out power on through trains.

For example there was a main line fueling station at N Little Rock on the MP, that fueled trains running from Texas to Chicago and interchanges in Illinois.  N Little Rock was fuel, no sand.

The run through fueling at N Platte  allowed trains from N Platte to Chicago on the CNW without having to swap power. N Platte was fuel and sand.

on-line

Rathdrum, Idaho (BNSF) and Pocatello, Idaho (UP) both have fueling facilities directly on the main line. Both see a steady volume of long-distance freight traffic. Procedures have varied over the years, but dragging main line power away from the main line to refill the tanks doesn't make sense.  Local fuel costs also have an impact on the location of fueling facilities.

A short line or a regional running a lot of out-and-back jobs that wouldn't empty a fuel tank would have different requirements.

Mainline sanding facilities

I can definitely see that as a problem !

(come to think of it I .m not sure I know where the sand is loaded (placed) on diesel locos?)

One of the reasons I began to think of the problem was on long range trains needing extra fuel, but not forced to uncouple and go off-line to refuel. I also though of the issues with steam trains needing water (and coal) often enough that those services were provided along the mainlines.

I just never saw that many (any) models of mainline diesel fueling.

Sand

On a steam engine it goes on top (in the sand dome).

On F-unit style engines it goes in hatches on the upper sides.

On hood units it goes in a hatch on the top of the nose.

Follow-up on Dave's post

Still happening in NLR..the large tanks in the pictures are for fueling with the hostlers..red box is the west to east main fueling/sanding point. 

Thoroughbred Feed Bag

Located on the NS ( former NYC ) main in Elkhart, IN adjacent to the classification yard

Mainline Fueling

The Erie had mainline fueling at Huntington, IN in the 1950's. The fuel hoses are the dark black vertical lines located just to the left of the tower and signal. The silver tank behind the locomotives is the diesel fuel storage.

Erie / EL at Marion, OH...

The hoses were stored "underground" beneath the concrete station pad and fed from a nearby tank. 

CSX Collinwood Ohio

CSX has main line fuel stands at both the west and east ends of the Collinwood Yard. The east end also has a   sanding capability, but not on the main track.  It looks fairly up to date. Sand booms can be swung to the side.  You can catch a pretty good glimpse at Google Maps.

You seem to have an eclectic modeling era. Newer facilities are going to be much cleaner and OSHA compliant. Thus more elaborate than the one in your photo. In the old days, you just climbed up on the locomotive to access the sand hatches. Now you may require fall securement to sand. When I worked at a yard in Texas, we sanded our switch engines using buckets passed up from the ground. We had quite a beach around the the sanding area.

Here's a photo of a basic service track sanding event. The hostler swung the hose over the nose of the locomotive, climbed on to the nose and stuck it into the sand hatch. Sand was blown out of sand hoppers located two tracks away.

Bob

Omaha

reason for this subject

I brought this subject up because as I was working on a new/revised freight yard track plan, and while doing so I was losing a track or 2 from freight yard usage. So I thought I might gain one back if I were to move my fueling/sanding facility over one track such that half of it was actually a mainline.

I've now decided against this idea. I'm going to have the entire fueling/sanding tracks (2 of them) contained in a facility like the one I pictured at the opening of this thread,...so the freight yard will just suffer with one less track.

Besides I long admired a facility like the that one pictured above,.... ever since I saw a fancy brass model of one long ago.

older dwg, but you can see the general location I had chosen for the fueling/sanding facility
 

final location

As I have mentioned I have been working on a new track plan for my freight yard. Its been much more of a project than I first thought. Basically I was able to place my fueling and sanding facility much like my original plan, ...BUT I was able to open up the track spacing between the 2 tracks to 3,5" centerlines so I might model a more detailed facility in the future,...something like the image I started the subject thread out with.

 

The track nearest the wall is the one that eventually enters the helix to go down to staging. The next 2 inward of that are the 2 mainlines (with a double crossover made up of 2 single crossovers). Then the 2 tracks that belong to fuel and sand. Doing not so busy times I'm sure that inner most fueling track might be used for assembling a portion of a freight train.

...more on the yard design over HERE

Silly question

Wouldn't a main line fueling station go on the mainline and not in a yard track?

I've started laying track on

I've started laying track on my mail deck. Combining it with assemble of 'groups of turnouts' so as to maintain their close spacial  relationships. Turns out I have also been able to substitute a larger size Pecos in place of my original plan,....all good as it opens up the radi of those turnouts from small to medium, and medium to large.

I've also located a possible alternative location for my sanding and fueling structure,..
 

 

Those pieces are just a portion of a plastic structure I have for that facility. I'm not even sure I have the entire structure.

Does anyone recognize what that structure kit might be??

Diamond Scale Kit

I think I just found it,...a diamond scale kit
http://www.diamond-scale.com/products__diesel_service_facilities.htm

Wonder if they still make it??

Diamond Scale

Don't run double stacks, auto racks or dome cars through that rack (unless you don't want the sanding system.)

Those kits are intended for a diesel facility, not a main line fueling station, so check clearances before anything is made permanent.

Well, Brian,

Checking the website you linked to reveals that the price list was last updated in February, 2020, and contained the Diesel Service Facility you've apparently got, so I'd say there's a good chance they still make it.  Since there's and Email contact option at the top of the web page, why not ask them?

Blair

Replies

@Dave, I recall you mentioning that height issue before,..thanks

@Blair, that gentleman that now owns Diamond Scale does not go on the internet, so emails do no good. I'll have to give him a call.

Missing Parts

Turns out I never really inspected this 'kit' that I had, and it is very incomplete. In fact it appears to be missing all of the upper walkways and the four sanding towers.

It might be just as well to not included that upper section of walkways and overhanging sand pipes. Perhaps I could just put some sanding tanks at either end of the facility like this?
 

some brass sanding towers i had laying around,..
 

But I am less than excited about the distance that the base of the towers force the double track distance apart.

(bag of parts i had associated with this facility)
 

Mistaken Identity,...so what might I have?

I think I may have made a mistake about the identity of 'my kit'?

When I looked again at the diamond scale site I read this,...
"Our kit includes a Hydrocal cast platform directly mounted to a wood composition base, and is designed to be installed from beneath your layout  The platform features two parallel pits with steps, and has been designed for laying rail without ties on the ledges above each pit.  The pits were lighted by fluorescent lights immediately below the tracks.  Our pit has been cast to receive grain of rice bulbs (not included in kit) should you desire to install lighting in your pit."

My platforms are NOT cast plaster, and do not have pits in them, ....Rather my concrete pads are plastic,...
 
bottoms of those plastic 'concrete decks'

So what might I have ?? (I've looked thru quite a number of images today, and nor found one that looks like my kit??)

Fueling/Sanding Facility

Have never seen either type of facility on a real RR mainline. They've always been on separate sidings or spurs. Besides the RRs would never run trains through them at "maximum authorized speed". The speeds through them would have to be very slow because of employee safety concerns for one thing.

Andy Jackson

FYI : Max speed

Maximum authorized speed may not be fast.   The "maximum subdivision speed" is the maximum speed on the subdivision where there are no restrictions. The "maximum authorized speed" is the maximum speed at a particular point for a particular condition.  If the maximum subdivision speed is 60 mph and the time table says the speed through the fuel rack is 10 mph and there are no speed restrictions by bulletin/slow order/general order, then the maximum authorized speed through the fuel rack is 10 mph.

It depends on the location and the configuration of the fueling facility.  Based on the 1994 time table, the max speed through the fuel racks at N Little Rock was 40 mph.  The max speed through the fuel racks at Rawlins was restricted speed when they were fueling on the other track.  The max speed through the eastbound run through fuel rack at N Platte was 10 mph.

End result is that the railroad would run trains through the fuel rack at "maximum authorized speed", they run trains at the maximum authorized speed everywhere whether that speed is 70 mph or 5 mph.

Thoughts on this facility

This just makes common sense,.... I think I realized that even before I began this conversation.

Per my opening posting I was wondering if ONE track of a two track fueling station might be a mainline track while the other was a secondary track. The secondary one would always be the preferred one, leaving the mainline open to thru traffic. Obviously the structure I pictured would not lend itself to that sort of operation,...and now upon closer inspection of those 'pits' of the pictured diamond scale structure, it would definitely not be a candidate for location on a mainline. 

I've moved by proposed structure to a new location that does not involve a mainline at all, and in fact mates up with the engine servicing building just down the road.

What attracted me to this diamond scale model was its resemblance to a fancy brass model I recall seeing a long time ago,...and placing in my memory the idea that I might have something like that in my future layout.

I had not taken notice that this model had those pits under the tracks. They present me with 2 problems; 1) likely the track spacing width wise is too much for the limited apace I have for squeezing it in between the other freight yard tracks I have, and 2) I'm not real excited about cutting holes in my plywood deck at this point in order to allow for the pits.

Still wondering what manufacturer might have made a kit that included those concrete pads I have (no pits) ??

Safety Stripes?

BTW shouldn't there be some sort of (yellow) safety stripping down the concrete pads to indicate the extent that the locomotives might overhang the concrete pad?