Tam Valley Depot

Tam Valley Depot makes a controller for semaphores:

https://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/dual3way.html

I've used them for a couple of order boards and they work well. You can even program in some "bounce" so the semaphore blades bounce a bit when they come down as on the prototype. Also has contacts for fascia mounted LED indicators if needed.

How many aspects? 2 is easy.

How many aspects? 2 is easy. Three.... not so much.

i'm working on modifying a 3 aspect lighted signal system on an Arduino to drive a servo to give me three aspects. (The system I'm basing it on communicates with "upstream" and "downstream" signals, in a extremely flexible manner, to allow a modular railroad to be assembled in any configuration and the signals to operate correctly). A 9g servo... laid on it's side... is only about 12mm (~1/2") thick.

I really like semaphores. Not only are they iconic bits of railroad equipment, they're the only signal that can be read from the "wrong" side, making them ideal for model railroads where the track plan doesn't always cooperate with where the signal "needs" to be. They're also much easier to read from a traincam that might have issues with color rendering. It's easy enough to tell IF an LED is lit...   it's not always easy to tell what color it is!

Years ago, I used Del-Aire pneumatic switch machines (no longer available...) to animate 2 aspect semaphore signals. I was able to insert flow rate controls into the air lines to get the slow motion response I wanted. A three aspect movement IS possible...   but it requires a much more complex mechanism, and two "engines".

The problem with solenoids is that they "snap" to position - and semaphores are much slower in their movements. The "snap" is also hard on the mechanism, particularly if it comes up against the end stops.

Two suggestions

Hi Henry,

These are suggestions, but it appears both are lower quadrant types, but may be able to be modified to give you your upper quadrant semaphore signals

From the UK -  https://www.dapol.co.uk/shop/model-accessories/motorised-signals?page=1

From Australia - Ray Pilgrim's Signals Branch 3D printed semaphores See  https://www.shapeways.com/shops/signalsbranch?s=0 and   http://signalsbranch.blogspot.com/ My feeling is that by contacting Ray directly from his website, he may be able to suggest how to get your upper quadrant signals by modifying his lower quadrant designs. I've seen these work and they do work very smoothly. Ray also has a flat mount for the servo that may help you get around your height restrictions, or perhaps the linear servo as detailed on his website?

Good Luck, and,  

for 3 positions..

Hi barr_ceo,

Have you considered a linear servo and something like an Arduino/Raspberry Pi as the servo controller. Set your mid-position as as position zero and set the other semaphore as positions and +x and -x? It might just work??

+1 for Servo

I agree with John that servos and an Arduino would be a great solution for you. Programming the movement of the servo/semaphore would be relatively simple. I have to say that the two solutions you mentioned in your post both sounded more complex than using servos. I guess it depends what you’re used to. 

One more +1 for Servo

As Ron suggested, servos and Arduino's are a great solution. In the past I was reluctant to use servos, preferring tortoise switch machines, but due to current cost in Aus, I went looking for an alternative.

There is a learning curve, but once you know how to load a program (sketch) into an Arduino the hard work is done. I would recommend you have a look at ARCOMORA, and in particular the Mardec arduino DCC  accessory decoder. I am using this to operate turnouts,  boom gates and a gate on a test module, it works well.

Cheers,

Steve

Shape memory alloy (Muscle Wire)

Not sure where to get it these days, but there is something called shape memory wire or Memory wire or Muscle wire which just needs to be heated (means connect to electricity) and it shortens or lengthens which causes movement. You might have to make your own brackets to convert the movement to operate semaphores.

cheers

Alan J

Bulk Servos + Microprocessor = Semaphore WOW

Hi Van15f,

The micro servo prices have fallen to around $2 when you purchase 10 or more.

Using an Arduino or Picaxe microprocessor, it would be fairly easy to convert "Red", "Yellow" and "Green" signal indications into servo positions 0, 45 and 90 degrees.  That would require three pins for each semaphore...so a 16 pin microprocessor could drive five semaphores.

You'd only have to write the program once.  After that it's just a matter of copying it into whatever microprocessor  you choose.

servo pointers?

Which servos would you recommend, and where would one get them?

Hide in a building?

Could you hide a switch machine in a building? That's a common solution for turnouts, I don't see why they couldn't do a semaphore as well?

Servo in the building

You could, but it would make it more complex.  A switch uses horizontal movement to operate the points.  If you put the servo in a building horizontally next to the switch, the servo mechanism will move the actuating rod horizontally and life is good. 

The Semaphore needs vertical movement of the actuating rod.  If you put the servo in the building horizontally next to the signal the servo is going to move the actuating rod horizontally.  You will have to have some lever to divert the horizontal movement to vertical movement, an added complexity. 

Circuitron ?

Remote mounting:

Remote Signal Actuator

SD-2 Semaphore Driver:

Semaphore

IF you can still find one, Tomar made an edge connector, 81-870, to fit a Tortoise and it provided a three-position actuator for a semaphore.

http://www.azatrax.com/model-semaphore-control-circuit.html

Good Luck, Ed

Servo in the building

Thanks for the idea, I have considered putting the relays in buildings and using thin piano wire and cranks to operate the signal arm.

Circiutron

Hi Ed

I did not know these existed, but as I mentioned, I have very limited space between my two levels, and the semaphores are on the top level, meaning there must be very little if anything underneath the baseboard. The bus wires and feeder wires are buried in slots that I routered out for them in order to keep the bottom of the baseboard clear.

Thanks

Henry 

Tam Valley

Hello Rick

Thanks for your response, I am trying to stay away from servos, so I can use the same ancient relay based system that I use for my color light signals on the semaphores signals too. Keeps maintenance easy and spare replacement parts easy. BTW, I am in South Africa, across the "pond" as many people refer to the Atlantic ocean and finding model railroading items at affordable prices are becoming impossible and many Ebay sellers do not ship to South Africa.

regards

Henry 

How many aspects

Thank You for your input, I am trying to stay away from servos and ardriunos, because I want to use the same relay based system that has proven itself with my color light signals. Yes, it is only two aspect.  I know about the air operated switch machines, but do not know if I will find anything like that in South Africa, where I live.

Regards

Henry 

Muscle wire

Hello Alan, 

Now that can be a brilliant solution if I can locate some muscle wire. I will have to research on the voltage and if it needs to be powered the whole time etc, but worth exploring.

Thank you

Henry van Wyk

Take a look at these videos

3 part series:

Also see:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=49183.405

Megapoints Controller

I think this was pointed out to me some time ago and after watching their video I ordered a board to control servos. All the hard work is done but very configurable for upper or lower quadrant signals. 
 

Megapoints Controller
 

Servo in a building.

@Dave

”The Semaphore needs vertical movement of the actuating rod. If you put the servo in the building horizontally next to the signal the servo is going to move the actuating rod horizontally. You will have to have some lever to divert the horizontal movement to vertical movement, an added complexity.”

Not necessarily. You can change the plane of the servo by changing the way you mount it. Mount it with the blade at right angles to the actuator on the signal, and you get vertical movement. Rotate it 90deg and you get horizontal movement. (This works in my head, you’d have to fiddle it to suit the actuator on the signal).

Servos

Hi CandOfan,

I went with the micro servos used in R/C helicopters.  They're generic, come with various hardware and are about $2 if you purchase 10 or more.

I've ordered from http://www.banggood.com and http://www.ebay.com.

Muscle Wire

Henry,

The muscle wire needs to be heated to contract and it needs a spring or something to pull it back to it's original length. I set mine up to be at Danger or stop with no power connected and only change to proceed when a train approached and the line ahead was clear. I used a split sinker (fishing lead) on the wire that moved the semaphore arm and just let it hang down. I used a bellcrank to change the horizontal action of the muscle wire to vertically lift the split sinker and thus moving the semaphore arm to proceed. They are a bit fiddley to set up, I've only made one and unfortunately its mechanism is not easy to photograph. 

I'd suggest trying a experimenters kit such as this

http://store-musclewires-com.3dcartstores.com/Muscle-Wiresreg-Project-Book-Sample-Kit_p_234.html

although I have not personally bought from this store.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Cheers

Alan J

I've been struggling....

... trying to integrate servo control into an Arduino-based signalling system designed for 3 aspect lighted signals. I have had little luck so far. The signalling system I want to use is very flexible, and would be ideal for my T-Trak modular system that might not be set up in the same configuartion every time.

The code is complex, and I'm getting headaches trying to understand it...   but I had a thought the other day that may simplify things tremendously.

Instead of trying to rewrite the complex code of the system, which includes detection, communication with adjacent blocks, and operating the lighted signals.... why not just insert another Arduino Nano whose only job is to take the signal output from the main Arduino, read it as a high/low signal for each color,  translate it to servo position commands, and send it to the servo?  

This would allow semaphores with virtually any signal system, whether home built, or the Atlas signal system boards.

@ BruceNScale

You'd only have to write the program once.  After that it's just a matter of copying it into whatever microprocessor  you choose.

Easy for you to say.  For those of us such as myself who are barely PC literate, this is all Greek to me.  Problem is, I somehow need to learn it as I plan on semaphores for signaling.  I just don't have an aptitude for electronics. *sigh*