Upgrade needed?

Would your Powercab need an upgrade as well to wireless or a wireless booster or interface? I am using the Powercab and a tethered Cab06 with no problems. 
 

 Following with interest. 

Drill down...

Dear Jeff,

We can "get to the solution" on this by drilling down a bit,
and doing an honest-appraisal of what you need and want the "wireless throttle" to do.
(I'm approaching this from a Functionality perspective,
because if you choose the Throttle based primarily on Form-Factor and "appearance", 
but it does not do what you need it to do,
then "looking pretty" won't solve the "Dang-it, where's the < specific required button/feature> ?" angst).

First, we're assuming you want to use the new Wireless Throttle to Run/Drive Trains (duh...)

...but that's actually important, because what your not saying is that you do not intend to use the Wireless Throttle to perform any Initial Loco Configuration, Programming, or Consisting.
(What DCC system you use to do "initial loco setup and config" is up to you,
whether you use a totally seperate DCC rig at the workbench,
of you leave these "once in a while" tasks to the original Host PowerCab unit).

IF the above holds true for you, then you do not need the "Prog/EXPN" button section at the bottom of the "ProCab" throttle, and the need for the full multi-character LCD display becomes shaky...

Next, when looking to "drive a loco", you need to be able to Select the loco.
This is actually a deeper issue, so bear with me...

A "Loco" can be:
- a single loco, operating standalone (Either long or short address does not matter)
- a "Basic Consist" (using a "Basic Consist Address")
- an "Advanced Consist" (using the "Advanced Consist Address")
- an "Advanced Consist" (using NCE's "Loco address <> Consist" feature)

The table below sets-out which "type of locos" each Throttle can Select

Loco Type     ProCab     Cab06x
Single-Loco     Yes     Yes
Basic-Con     Yes     Yes
Adv-Add     Yes     Yes
Adv-NCE     Yes     Yes

...looks like a wash soo-far...

...but consider the Consists, specifically how they were Initially created as a Consist, 
and whether you will need/expect to break-down / rebuild a consist during a session.

This is where things get sticky, as the CAB06 does not have the ability to Create/Make/Break a consist.
(Yes, one of the buttons can be remapped to act as the "Consist" button, 
but without a full multi-character LCD screen, 
selecting the required locos to form the consist,
and nominate their Frnt/Rear Orientation in-turn is essentially impossible).

SOOOO, if you:
- regularly run locos in semi-permanent/pre-configured consists
- and do not make/break consists mid op-session

then a CAB06x looks like it's the "simplest animal for the task"...

...IF however, you DO need to make/break consists "on-the-fly",
then you will absolutely need the extra buttons and LCD screen of a ProCab.

"What about triggering Lights, Sound, and Functions while running the loco?"

Well, both ProCab and Cab06x have "F0" (Headlight) and "F1 thru F9" buttons right there on the throttle,
so anything "Function Related/triggerable", IE
- Head/tail-lights
- Ditchlights
- Strobes
- Horn
- Bell
- Brakes
- Sound Mute 
- Prime-mover start/stop
- etc

is essentially accessible via either/both Throttle units...

(NOTE! There is a long-running-gag about

"Which functions to map to the first-order-accessible F1-F9 buttons,
and which functions can be relegated to the second-order 'SHIFT + Fx' button combination"

amongst Ops-minded modellers,
particularly those running newer, more-complex sound decoders with 10s of triggerable functions/sounds.

This however is NOT a "Which Throttle to Choose" issue,
but a "How to setup/standardise my Decoders for my particular needs/preferences" issue...)

If you only have/want-to buy One NCE wireless throttle unit,
and you're relatively comfy with either "ergonomic form factor"
(The ProCab "hammerhead" VS the Cab06x "buddy/knobby throttle")

then hopefully the above will help you work out which is the better-suiting option for your particular needs...

FWIW, I regularly use a PowerCab for both "Initial Loco setup and config",
and "quick single-user running sessions" at home,
(when I'm not running  a ProtoThrottle, but I digress...   ).

However, when I'm running-at-exhibition
(IE long hours, continuous running, with occasional "hand over the throttle for a random someone-else to drive")
or have my layout hosting a "multi-operator/random-operator" event,

I ensure the layout is wired-up so the PowerCab can hang-out "round the back" undisturbed, 
and perform it's Main Task as a "Command Station + Booster" DCC Host system,
(which just happens to be in a "PowerCab shaped enclosure" with a "looks like a throttle" control-panel worth of buttons on... ).

and drive pre-config'd/consisted locos "from out the front" with the simpler-to-understand-at-a-glance Cab04x...
(confident that if something untoward happens,
I can duck-around-the-back-of-the-layout and solve any problem on-the-fly via the PowerCab "throttle" ,
thus "keeping the show going"...)

I hope this helps,

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Hello Neil & Prof K., Thanks

Hello Neil & Prof K.,

Thanks for the insights, and insightful questions!

Neil: I run HO and am planning for a max of 4 locos on layout at a time, so the existing 3 amp PowerCab "should be" OK.  I will have to measure power draw on a few sound locos to confirm though.     

Prof: I appreciate the first hand experience & observations on these esp. on function accessibility.  A picture is probably worth ~1000 words so here is the layout, its roughly 10' x 24':

The wireless requirement is driven by:

1. layout expansion puts the yard far from tethered PowerCab (92" is the shortest fascia-to-fascia across the aisle measurement).  An added wired UTP panel would be a pain since the pink shaded section is a liftout and I did not run RJ12 cable across it and to the yard.   

2. the kids play/operate all over the layout and the cable is a nuisance to all.

As far as consisting goes I have never run a consist before, but I absolutely do intend to run double loco consists with new expansion.  Whether these will wind up being semi-permanent pairs or not remains to be seen (a fully speed matched fleet is the vision but I gotta figure out speed matching first!).  Having that flexibility is a nice feature in-hand wirelessly vice having to go back to the tethered PowerCab.  

Thx

Jeff

Throttles

I have the Power Pro system and a variety of Cab04r, Cab06r, Cab04 (teathered) and a ProCab (tethered).  I have never used the Power Cab in an op session, I have only used the smaller throttles for the last 15 years.

Knob, buttons, or thumbwheel?

If making/breaking consists during a run is not a high priority your choice may boil down to how the thing feels in your hand and how you like to control the speed.  The procab is bigger than a cab-06, but it has a contoured shape that may make it a little more comfortable to hold.  It also has the choice up and down buttons or the thumb wheel for speed control.  The cab-06 is smaller but a little boxy, and it has a genuine knob.  And you can get it with a pot (has fixed stops at the limits) or an encoder (no fixed stops).  If you like buttons for speed control, or the thumbwheel, that may be the deciding factor for the procab.  If you like a knob, that may be the deciding factor for the cab06.

My personal preference is like Dave's - I prefer running with the smaller knob, the potentiometer version.  But I do wish it was a little less boxy.

Distil the info...

Dear Jeff,

I see the issue, and what I'm about to say is likely not going to help but...

This would make me lean strongly towards the Cab06x,
as it gives all the "needed to drive" controls, and nothing extra,
and greatly minimises the possbility of "finger trouble" quote-unquote "accidentally" reprogramming/tweaking/de-consisting something unexpectedly...

...With utmost respect, I don't know the age and skill/maturity level of your kids,
but such "give 'em what they need to get the job done, and no more" ethos seems to hold true for even full-grown adults in many exhibition, club, and even "friendly home-layout visit" situations...

There is something to be said for both the "Host PowerCab" and "Wireless Throttle" having the same Form-Factor and button array. No matter which one you pick up, havng "all the buttons the same, in the same place", leads to greatly-reduced "cognitive dissonance" when moving between throttles.
("no brainer", you just grab whichever throttle, and go...) 

Further, if you "don't know yet" whether or not you'll be making/breaking consists mid-session,
buying a Cab06x now will lock-you-in to having to do all "consisting work" on the Host PowerCab,
whereas buying a ProCab will open the flexibility of doing consisting on either Throttle unit...
(Whether that means you'll have to spend a few more minutes in "new operator training" to avoid "finger trouble" occasionally may well be an acceptable tradeoff...???)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS is there a "Loco Service/stabling" location on the layout?
Is the existing PwrCab PCP Panel located near that "Loco Servicing" area?

If YES, then the PwrCab is perfecty located to be the "Hostler Throttle" for loco-consist and maintanence duties,
and can "hand a prep'd consist off" to the (wireless) "Road Throttle" as locos/consists are called off the "Ready Track"...

If NO (PwrCab/PCP is NOT co-located to the place where locos "typically end up when not out-on-the-road",
then making sure the (wireless) "Road Throttle" can do any/all required "Hostler" tasks may be a higher-priority issue...

And the winner is...

Dave/Ken/Prof K, 

Great inputs all around...

We have no rotary knob emotional attachment, both kids & I are comfortable with hammerhead form factor (have not experienced errant programming, and everyone knows to use the big red EMERGENCY STOP button that is absent on the Cab06), and strong consisting flexibility is desirable.  

PK - the engine house/service area was previously directly in front of the PCP but will now be on the upper right corner of the layout drawing just "north" of the yard which is not near the existing PCP .  Ops intent is to start and finish ops sessions there and loco consists make & break will be in yard or engine house area.

So bottom line: the Procab-R wins the day...

Thx to all!

Jeff

Hi Jeff

I agree X 2 and am considering X 3.  If you said a Cab06 tethered.  I have one for my staging yard but haven’t put on a play yet....  I’ve used it a little but it will remain in a permanently location.  Radio is definitely the way to go.

Enjoy!

Nick

POWER

hi Nick, thanks and I will follow up once I get the wireless up and running!

On Neil's power & capacity question:  Using the PowerCab's built in ammeter function ( https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203522189-Power-Cab-Ammeter) I checked the power draw in various states:

1. no locos on track: .01 amp
2. Athearn SD40R on track, sound off 0.03 amp 
3. Athearn SD40R on track, sound on 0.03 amp
4. Athearn SD40R at "moderate" speed, sound off 0.06 - 0.16 amp
5. Athearn SD40R at "moderate" speed, sound on 0.06 - 0.09 amp
6. Athearn SD40R and Scaletrains SD40-2 both at "moderate" speed, sound on: 0.12 - 0.25 amp.  

At speed are observed readings through startup, acceleration, and at constant speed.  

These are much lower than I expected based on interwebs "rules of thumb" but if this is accurate, the 2 amp PowerCab capacity is more than adequate for my needs.  

Jeff

Current draw goes up ...

Test parameters

Joe

that makes sense!  I neglected to say that the in-motion tests were with 6 weighted cars and around a curve.  I have no grades.  Tried another quick test with SD40R and 12 cars and peaked at 0.30 amps once.  

Jeff

bummer

Got the new hardware installed and working, briefly.  Procab-R display went wonky within a few minutes.  Will send  it back for a replacement.  

Jeff

Follow up

After troubleshooting via email failed, NCE repaired the cab under warranty - cold solder joint reworked - and with limited run time it seems to be working well now.  

Jeff

Don't be closed minded

As you progress with your layout, don't be closed minded, and insist on "only NCE hardware". I generally like Digitrax, but I don't blindly buy only Digitrax gear. I use DCC Specialties circuit breakers, I have a Tony's UTP, a TCS UWT, my layout PC connects via an RR-Cirkits LocoBuffer, and I have more than a half-dozen different brands of decoders. Recently, I got some more Digitrax hardware, but with off-brand power supplies (after proper research).

There is a legitimate discussion to be had about standardizing decoder brands when you want to MU or operate with a PT, for example, or not creating a mish-mash of different track brands that have different rail shapes, but in general, you should be open to using various brands of hardware in your DCC system and on your layout.

Open my mind...

AlexW

Besides a cell phone based solution, what other options does a NCE power-cab user have to add a wireless throttle? Can one add a Digitrax throttle to a powercab?  The post has nothing to do with decoders or circuit breakers so your comment is confusing  

Thx

jeff

TCS UWT or ProtoThrottle

Would be the obvious ones. PT is for a very specific target audience, if it's your cup of tea you have to have one, if it's not, then it wouldn't appeal to you. The TCS UWT is ahead of everything else out there on the market.

You make it sound like you will only buy NCE equipment for your whole system. For whatever reason, I see a lot of blind loyalty to NCE, versus Digitrax users are more willing to mix and match. The obvious additions to an NCE system would be a TCS UWT and DCC Specialties circuit breakers.

For my expansion options I

For my expansion options I relied on NCE's published info on adding wireless to an existing NCE system.  They did not mention non-NCE equipment as an option (but why would they)!  My range of options was set by perceived compatibility constraints not blind loyalty.  Good to know there are other options.  The TCS UWT looks like a very nice and capable piece of equipment.  

Jeff

Manufacturers

Generally aren't going to advertise a competitor's product. Digitrax does to a certain extent with some detection, signaling, and other gear for LocoNet, but that's only because it's a semi-proprietary technology that they license to those other companies, and have a vested interest in the whole ecosystem succeeding.

It's more common in Europe for systems to advertise LocoNet compatibility with Digitrax, or XPressNet compatibility with Lenz, as they're more open to multi-vendor mish-mashes of technology.

Any system that can interface to JMRI, which is all but the most bare-bone basic DCC systems, you can add WiThrottle server, and then you've got access to WiThrottle, Engine Driver, the ProtoThrottle, or the TCS UWT, as well as the ESU Cab Control, which can run Engine Driver that works with the knob if you like really big knobs.

Digikeijs works with most LocoNet throttles, and XPressNet throttles, as does Roco. TCS is going to support either NCE or Lenz throttles as an option in software for their RS-485 port.