BNSF-FAN

Hello, rail fans!!

I have spent a great deal of years working on model digital electronics. Many years ago, I used a MPU, such as an i4004 computer chip. In designing these systems, it tooik a great deal of programming, in machine language, to make it operate like the protoype. It was cumbersom, and complicated, to program. Operation, was EASY, and SIMPLE. As I hope you will be able to understand the complete operation. This signal system, works exactly like the prototype. When I put it together for the first time, I was, like always, a bit skeptical about how the operation would work, like it should. To my surpise, and pleasure, it only needed a 2 command instruction, and it worked. FIRST TIME!

I have never run a blog before, so, please bare with me, and feel free to add your suggestions, and ask questions.

I have spoke with Joe Fugate, many months ago, and he said it would be a good thing to show everyone how it worked. Well, after long mulling over this, I decided I want to help other model railroaders, with my 45 years of digital design, and operation experience, by sharing all of the schematics, and a full explanation on how it was designed, and how it was put together to make it come together as a system that can be made by the average modeller, who has little or no concept, on digital electronics. I have seen some great ideas here on MRH.

These are NOT for sale!! I am NOT a business. I feel this should be shared, and let others use the design, and I am SURE, help imporove it, in ways that will benefit all model railroaders. Mr. Fugate wanted me to write an article, and, as I know running a business takes money,(it takes mioney to make money), I didn't want to put the magazine into a position to have to pay for my article. This is our hobby, as a collective, and ya'll have been very helpful to me, in my 39 years of model railroading. Joe, I hope this helps you and the magaizine out, and gives another chance to get it out to ya'll, for your use. With that in mind, I will gladly share all information, and if ya'll want boards or MCU parts, preprogrammed,(I will sell you the MCU, for COST, and a shipping fee, for express mail.) nothing more. I plan on keeping the firmware under copyright, and not release it at this time. However, this will not make your construction of these a problem. It will be released someday, as I worked a long time, to get it right. This way, those of you can concentrate on making this happen for you I have boards made, but, I will give out the GRBR files, so you will not have to buy them from me, and get them made VERY inexpenively. I will provide all the information that you will need! Count on it!

I will share all schematics, and operating setups, as we go through the way it was designed, and implemented, to operate like the real thing, and independently, on DC, or DCC layouts.
I will do my utmost, to show it in detail, so please, if I do not make things clear to you at first, please ask. I will explain it in a much deeper detail, if it is needed. And for those who want to interface it to your DCC, as I have,  it is EASILY done, without all of the other manufactures products needed.(They can be interfaced also, but, why?).

For all of you  out there, who finds all this electronics/electrical stuff over your head, I will make it simple for you to understand, and please, I just want to share something that has been a passion to me for 30 some odd years.I will help you. period.

Hope y'a'll enjoy, and maybe use this system, to your advantage. Prices for components are VERY inexpensinve, and all BOM's for each part, is included.

The only real thing I would like in return, is to be able to keep the copyright on the schematics, when passed on to others. The firmware will gladly be programmed by me, at this time, and the firmware will not be released as of this moment. The only item I will just sell to others, NOT AS A BUSINESS, but as a fellow modeller, will be the MCU's. There will not be any gouging, or anything underhanded. I am an extremely honest person, and being not many have helped me with  ANY portion of this fabulous hobby, I want to give to it something that will hopefully be well recieved, and well respected. As for me, I don't want to run a business, as I retired to NOT run a business. Besides... Wouldn't you appreciate something, and someone who really puts it all, for the benefit of others? My faith, tells me, I should share this, so others can benefit, and use it, and pass it on to other genreations of modellers!

I will start entering another blog entry soon, but until then, I have to figure out to upload a PDF file, so everyone can download them, when they please.

STAY TUNED!!!

Moderator Edit:  Added photo of schematic to post.ot%20(3).png 

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BNSF-FAN

The single head target signal controller...

Well, this is the basis I got started with, for a ATC Controlled single, or any number of main track blocks, which are automatically controlled. I have uploaded a PDF file of the signal head controller, of which the whole concept is based upon.

In a signal controlled system, the object is obviously, to control the flow of traffic on track lines, to make it a safer, and more efficient means of transportation. Therefore, what was needed, was a way to have a long stretch of track, that could be controlled, as efficiently as possible, control the direction of the traffic to it's destination, and points in between.

In order to make this happen, there are several things that need to be monitored, and acted upon, when trains are in the block, and coming onto the controlled area. Now, CTC, is nothing more than a added layer, of the ATC track control system. This is why I started with the ATC type system, and then, added the same basic head controller to the CTC controlled points, as they will follow normal track occupancy zones, and relay the signals to them, by the dispatcher. I will explain this in detail, even more in another post.

Looking through the schematic, you will see 2 chips. inexpensive, and reliable, and already, they are a mainstay in the Model Railroad Hobby. The have been a constant source of dependability, and are commonly available. That would be the 74LS06, 74HC05, invertors. Simply put. If you have an input to the single gate of a 'HIGH', or +5vdc,(not actually the "1" and "0" voltage minimums, and maximums, but, don’t fret this, it will be self-explanatory further down the road. As I was stating, if you have a HIGH input, it will give you a LOW output. plain and simple. and vice versa. If you have a "0" (zero), or NO voltage,( its threshold is near the 2 volt input threshold for low), you will get a HIGH, or "1" output. There are several type of invertors. I ruled out the use of 74lLS04 invertors, because I found I needed a good strong voltage, for the length of ribbon cable, connecting all of the parts of the system.at that point, you should have a power connection, no fewer than every 5 feet of length, just to maintain an operating voltage, and current, to keep the system running properly, and avoid the normal voltage drops created by resistance of the wire, and connectors used. The amperage isn't very high, but, we HAVE to keep the voltage at above 5 vdc. You can use a PC (ATX) power supply, for +/- 12VDC, and it is around 8 amps, and the 5 volt supply is a 30 amp supply. Common, even today on many large and small computer systems.

Back to the signal head. The controller is an ATtiny85. It has 6 input/outputs, and looking at the data sheet, you can see the other pin assignments given each pin such a PWM,(Pulse Width Modulation), which is how your locomotives are controlled, but, that is only the program creating the pulses. In the signal system, you cannot use PWM, for controlling the signals LED's. It just causes them to DIM, as that is the basic operation of PWM.

Each ATC signal needs to output a couple of different signals, and monitor the INPUT of a few other signals, as well as each head output signal’s, determine the way the NEXT signal, and the PREVIOUS signal, so as to determine what aspects are going to be displayed.

These signals are as follows:

1.) NEXT BLOCK FULL - as an INPUT

2.) BLOCK FULL - as an OUTPUT

3.) BLOCK OCCUPIED - as an INPUT

4.) TRAFFIC DIRECTION - AS AN INPUT

5.) BLOCK OCCUPANCY - AS AN INPUT.

The LATTER, is a VERY important signal, as it monitors and controls the single head needs to operate correctly. Let me explain further.

6.) This is the LED driver output, that allows all three colors, RED - YELLOW - GREEN. It only takes on output line to do this. Don't worry, I also have the "G" and "D" type signal controllers too! They offer three outputs for RED, YELLOW and GREEN LED's.

BLOCK OCCUPANCY is what you need to monitor, so you can signal the other signal heads in the string, AND any CTC controlled signals, that are within that string. It is nothing more than a daisy chain connection, which is the same between every signal. It reads one, and responds with another signal, either HIGH or LOW, to each controller

I can't imagine most people on here NOT knowing what these signals are, because they have been in use for so long, by the Railroads, since the inception of auto, and CTC signals.

I will make the explanation short as possible, and if you need to know more I will be very happy to explain further, and I will elaborate more, as we move forward.

For example you have 4 blocks. Each block, each block has a signal controlling traffic, in BOTH directions. Now, I will touch a bit on that in the next few paragraphs. This system, IS BIDIRECTIONAL! Controlled by the "TRAFFIC DIRECTION" input, on each signal controller. 

So for simplicity sake, lets say, your train is entering a ATC block. There is no one in the block ahead, so THAT particular signal, is telling the block signal, that it is "EMPTY" or 'UNOCCUPIED'. Therefore, the 2nd block signal sends a signal back to the 1st block, telling it..."I AM EMPTY, PROCEED". Figuratively speaking.

this signal is seen by the 1st block controller, and it checks the traffic direction, to see if we have a "RIGHTBOUND" traffic direction. I almost forgot. Normally, to keep things in perspective, the railroads refer to "RIGHTBOUND", and "LEFTBOUND". If you get a chance, you can look at a dispatch panel, and you will see what this looks like. This is an important signal that controls the WHOLE operation. If you have a RIGHTBOUND train, and the signal head controller tells the CTC block you went through to enter this 1st ATC block, the dispatcher, will not be able to set the traffic to the LEFTBOUND signal head, and it will stay RED, as LONG as the traffic direction is RIGHTBOUND. EVERY CTC CONTROLLER CONTROLS THE DIRECTION OF TRAFFIC FLOW. I will let that sink in, as I explain what happens, when traffic is cleared LEFTBOUND.

When a CTC controller is set to allow a movement of traffic, it will pull this control line either HIGH or LOW. I have made it so that the signal is NORMAL when it is HIGH, being, traffic is set in the LEFTBOUND direction. I must stress to you, this signal is very important, for bidirectional traffic movements. Each controller, sets this signal, when clearing a movement through a division, block, and dark area.( Dark areas are a section of track that is not signal controlled and needs a track warrant, in order to move into, or out of the siding safely. This signal, when HIGH, will keep ALL RIGHTBOUND traffic signal heads, in the STOP aspect, where it will remain, until the dispatcher clears a movement, in the LEFTBOUND direction. Each circuit board, has marked on it, LEFTBOUND, and RIGHTBOUND, so the reference is ALWAYS the same, no matter which side of the track you are looking at it from. This keeps the system in a string loop, and makes it run properly, and enhances the movement of trains it controls.

Traffic direction, is a JUMPER selected property, so that you can set all signals to the proper traffic direction, and should be set the same, for all signal controllers used in a string of blocks.
This signal to each head controller is the KEY, to the implementation, of the CTC controlled dispatch blocks. That will become clearer, when we get in to the CTC controlled block signals.
The block occupancy signal line is ALWAYS HIGH or a 1, unless there is a train in that particular block, and such, it is also, bidirectional. A train will be detected, going either direction, LEFTBOUND, or RIGHTBOUND.

This system, does not require fast processing of data, so there is no need to worry about high frequencies, interfering with ANYTHING you may want to use on your layout. It uses internal clock signals, and does not depend on any high speed digital signals for its operation. That makes it a simple, no timing operation, that is fast, and reliable every time.
I used open SOURCE, or OPEN COLLECTOR INVERTORS, because we have to be able to control a higher current output, so that the ribbon cable between them will not have a terrible voltage drop, between power connections. I stress, you should have a few power connections to each signal block, as you would for your track. POWER feeders are easy, and essential, to a flawless operation. I use my PC supply, and I drop several feeders to the signal and detector interfaces, in a controlled block.  Now, I show 8 pin make headers as cable connections. You may want to know, that, this is not the only configuration, of plugs and sockets. I have boards already designed and working, using CAT 5 connectors, and plugs, as well as CAT 5 cable between each signal and block detectors. THIS makes it rather inexpensive. You can buy a hundred crimp CAT 5 plugs, and sockets, for pennies on the dollar, online. eBay is a good source, and they WORK GOOD!!

I used the male header blocks, to design a block occupancy system, so that I had an IR transmitter and receiver, every 11 inches, under my track. I had a follower board, as I will upload a picture of, every 11 inches between ATC or CTC signals, so that at least ONE car would cover and pull the BLOCK OCCUPIED line LOW when it was activated. I encourage you to experiment with this, if you can, to see how it works. The only way to get every controller to be able to control all of the feed lines, and utilize a good strong signal, I used a "WIRED OR" capability of the open collector, or open source device. That made this all possible, without many more wires and connections. Although I still used some f my ir detectors, I am switching over to the CAT 5, because it is a bit stronger, and wire size is almost DOUBLE what is used in ribbon cable. It was not designed for very long distances, although, adding power feeders cured that, it will make an easier connection, when using a single block occupancy detector. I will be uploading those interfaces, and block occupancy detector for DCC, in a few days, as the article is explored even more.
Hopefully, I am explaining this so that most can understand. I am NOT a great writer, I AM a good orator, and I AM very excited to be able to help anyone out, who may be interested.

AND for all of you old fogies, like myself, who do NOT understand all of this, PLEASE, tell what you do not understand, and I will be extremely happy to explain it in another way, so you grasp the operation. Knowing how the internals work, will not be of great importance to those of you who are electronically challenged. Don't worry, you need not be ashamed, I think it is very cool, to be able to help y'all, without confusing you with facts, just the operation phase you need to know!

Many blessings and Thank you for reading!!

Your friend in modelling...

Taz...

PS - My real name is Kim. Yes, I know, I had a tough time growing up with it, but, I survived, and learned valuable life lessons as well.... Sure glad I wasn't named "SUE"! lol!!!!

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BNSF-FAN

Well...

is anyone even interested? At this point I feel like I'm wasting my time. 

I thought maybe, a few would like to see what I had come up with.

ill wait a bit.

Thanks...

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Neal M

What's the hurry?

I think people may be interested, but with everything going on in our personal lives, many may not be able to reply or will reply later than sooner. Patience is what we need.

I'm not an electronics guru (this is way above my pay grade), but anything involving signals always peaks my interest. 

Sounds like a great project for people who have this skilset.

Good luck and thanks for posting this for others to try!

Neal

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harperrc

interest

i am interested. i believe you may have lost a few folks with only providing firmware (i understand your reasons). i like the detailed explanation you are providing (e.g. get to see your thought process).

know how you feel about the 'real name', i am a christie (male) and had the same issues. actually got accepted to graduate school because they thought i was a girl (1971, different time ).

please continue with the post. i am most interested in the tiny85 (i just ordered a dozen and a programmer from sparkfun to allow using the arduino IDE)

thanks.

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NCR-Boomer

Interested

Do not despair at the lack of comments, we're a little caught up in the unfolding drama outside our collective doors at the moment.  Take a look at the "Read" count for a feel of how it's being received. (733 at time of post)

As for me, back to work (from home)...

Tim B.

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BNSF-FAN

Sorry, folks. Things are just a bit depressing lately....

I meant no harm, I just want to share this so others can try it themselves. I thought by taking a little time to explain how I designed this, people would be interested. I intend this project for folks who are electronicly challenged, and show them that they need not be a engineer to do such things. 

I want to share the passion, I have with making our hobby affordable, and accurate.

in regards to the "Firmware", that is of course the software, I just would like to make sure it gets out to anyone interested, and avoid some possible issues, of some not wanting to mess with it, and make it easier, and exceptionally affordable for all. I will share everything, and answer anynquestin, that will calm any fears of the subject, and just straight out build it up, and see the satisfaction that I realized when it worked, FIRST TIME!

All will  become apparent, very shortly. I guess I just get a lot more excited than most, Neal. Everyone wants to be accepted, and I am no different in that manner. So please don't take offense. I am giving something to all, who, can build this up, and put it to use on their project, for their pleasure. 

Pleased enjoy, because I am tooting my horn a little bit, but I want to help those who find themselves challenged with electronics. Heck, I am challenged with a bunch of stuff in my hobby, and I love a learning and doing challenge.

Again, I truly do not want to profit from something, that is helpful to all. I am retired, disabled, and I never back down from a exciting challenge. Regarding the virus spreading, it could affect me, also. I cannot be ignorant to that fact, and thought, well, let's let everyone see this, and maybe it will help keep some from being consumed by fear and worry.

 

many thanks. I will continue with another post, sometime today...

 

i really hope hope people will enjoy this as much as I do.

Taz...

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BNSF-FAN

One other thing...

Being I am not a highly intelligent human, as most here are,( meant as an extreme compliment...), is my explanation of the subject, understandable? I was more worried about my comminication skills getting to those who are challenged, so I could make it simpler, and more appealing to those folks.

Taz...

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BNSF-FAN

Firmware comment....

Hi Chris!

i will keep the software under wraps, for now. I am releasing all drawings, schematics, and parts list, ( BOM), until everything is cranked up, and the need is there. The system works, so, fixing it, would not be good.

i am just trying to avoid a mass frustration. It will be released as time goes on.

Thanks!

Taz...

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David Husman dave1905

Names

Quote:

know how you feel about the 'real name', i am a christie (male)

Right before I retired, in my work group of about 20 people we had about 5 people with variations in that same name: Chris, Christie, Kristi, Christine and a husband named Kris.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

Blog index:  Dave Husman Blog Index

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remhed

Thanks

Thanks for sharing.  I do have an interest in signalling - I had detection running and started installing signals on my last layout before I had to dismantle.  I am a Digitrax and JMRI user so having a stand alone system is not for me, but I'm sure there are some folks out there that will be interested.

Steve Johnson
Noblesville, In
https://www.facebook.com/icgrrho

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Logger01

Diagrams, illustrations and pictures

Taz, I think that readers, other than those of us with Electronics or EE backgrounds, are probably having a difficult time, visualizing your system. I think some additional diagrams, illustrations and pictures would help to generate interest. You could take a look at previous signaling articles in MRH for guidance. The " MRH Signaling Roundup" in the January 2018 issue would be a good place to start. Additional references can be found by searching the MRH site for "signaling systems."

Ken K

gSkidder.GIF 

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Marc

Extremely interested

 

Yes, I'm looking for an affordable system for myself; I want a system I can understand and work on.

So, I hope you share more pics and diagram in a near future to see and study your approach for signaling.

Anyway thanks to share it.

Marc

On the run whith my Maclau River RR in Nscale

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ironman63

interest

I am also interested. Awaiting further information on your sysem.

Richard

 

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BNSF-FAN

OUTSTANDING!!

I understand how you feel. I use Digitrax, but, for the time being, I thought this would be an interesting concept, I may use JMRI eventually, by adapting my system to work. It wouldn't take much, just a little tweaking, and it should  work!!! lol!!!

Many Thanks!!

Taz...

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BNSF-FAN

I believe you have a great point...

I believe you have a great point there, Ken. I will put together a set of block diagrams, and upload it. I DO have one somewhere. I will find them or make another set, and upload them before I post any more. My whole idea WAS to make it simple, and maybe I am acting arrogant, I don't mean to be. Sometimes, arrogance is mistaken for confidence, of which I have a TON of!...

I deeply apologize to all, if I sounded, or sound arrogant. I spent many years toying with this idea, and I am very happy with the way it turned out, so please forgive me, if that was the way it came out. Please understand it is confidence. I never try to be arrogant...

Taz...
 

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KHaus41369

Another interested party here

Kim. I love the itea and like others have mentioned that damn pesky life and adulting has been in my way to respond. But I have been following. Thanks for what you came up with and hoping to see more.

Kevin

Modeling something to do with the Grand Trunk Western.

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BNSF-FAN

AWESOME!!!

Hang in there. I am making some block diagrams today, and I will start again with posting, and explanations, with that posting. I need to make it simpler, without all of the electronic jargon confusing those who say they are challenged with that. I want them to understand it, so I am going to make it easier on them.

Thanks Kevin!

 

Best Regards;

 

Taz...

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BNSF-FAN

Got a screen shot for ya!

[attach:fileid=425930_27_fuvde9+691737r3X/9k=]

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Smart2

I like it!

I am looking forward to reading more on your system- it has piqued my interest for sure!  I am just getting into the electronics and animations for my layout and your comment about the possibility of tying in with JMRI would make this a good start to walk before I run with signaling.  

Reply 0
BNSF-FAN

THANKS!!!

I am working on a better way to present my design, without confusing the folks who are not in to the digital electronics, but, are interested. I will have a new post pretty soon, so stay tuned!!

Also, this system, can be interfaced with ANY system. All I need to know, is, the hardware interface with your layout, from the JRMI, no matter if it is serial, or a direct interface. Reading, and executing commands, will not be a problem, at all. I will just create a new interface, and that should do  that! We will explain more that at a later date, as I need to get things up to speed with this. Some folks are starting to be inpatient, but, they will get the things they are interested in. When I design this, I had circuits boards made, so I could re-test the controls, and be able to offer the GRBR files, at no charge. So hang in there, and we will get to where you want to go, ok?

and a BIG thanks to you for your interest.

Best Regards;

Taz...

Reply 0
Logger01

Good Start

Thanks for the additional info. Will be following your progress.

Ken K

gSkidder.GIF 

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BNSF-FAN

THIS IS NUTS!!!!

I am working on more instructional diagrams, folks. This quarantine, is going to make me pull the rest of my hair out....lol!!'

I will try to get another post over the weekend. The lady unit here, has got me taking care of a lot of chores, lately, 

so, I always remember what my mother always told me....

".... If momma ain't happy, there's NOBODY, GONNA BE HAPPY....."

My fingers are still operating, and I'd like to keep them that way!!!

 

just kidding, she only wants her kitchen finished.

Taz...

post's coming soon!

 

Reply 0
BNSF-FAN

STARTING FROM SCRATCH FOR ALL OF YOU, WHO WANT THIS SIMPLER...

Howdy, Rail fans!!!

Ok, there was a wide consensus, that I make this simple for folks who are electronically challenged, and, I hope it helps put this in perspective that you can absorb better. Again, any questions are welcome, and gladly answered!!

So, a simple block diagram, as you see displayed, is of a "Single Head, Micro-controller for a 3 - color target signal.  There are several signals between each ATC signal, so that it can control the aspects like the prototype signals, and correctly show the proper colors regarding traffic control for the block it controls.. Even the modern day signal, are controlled, mostly by 4 signal lines, being monitored, and transmitted by each signal controller, using ATC signals on multiple blocks. These are:

1.) NEXT BLOCK FULL

2.) BLOCK FULL

3.) THE BLOCK OCCUPANCY DETECTOR - (WHICH IS ALSO BIDIRECTIONAL)

4.) TRAFFIC SIGNAL DIRECTION.

These signals make it very easy to detect and control traffic on the ATC portion of a mainline track.

To most, this should be fairly obvious. If this block signal is green, then, it means, that the block is empty,(no train or cars detected). So, when a train enters this block, the block detector will signal the controller, that it is occupied, and thus will set the signal to RED, and output a signal to the previous block, that it is NOT occupied, therefor setting the previous block to YELLOW, so that a consist moving into that previous block, knows there is another in consist in front of it, and needs to stop at the next block signal. The previous block from that one, will show a GREEN, and son on behind them, will continue to be GREEN, unless a bloc is occupied. Now, I have not implemented the flashing RED, YELLOW, or GREEN, I have omitted them, for more clarity. Most model railroads, do not need this additional aspects. However, it can be easily implemented, and I have the added code available, if it is desired..All at the same time, the traffic direction signal, is set by the controlling CTC block, before the first ATC signal. If that is not clear, let me know, and I will try to explain it a bit simpler, if I can. I will give it my all to do so!

Now, the schematic I previously put on this blog, will show you the signals that are most important. We will digest it more, after y'all read this, and ask questions, so I can make it clearer to everyone.

As I have stated before. The entire CTC system, is just a layer above, the ATC system, and makes it rather simple to interface the same signal controller heads, for multiple CTC signals, and enables safe and easy control of traffic moving on the selected routes.

I have been asked, does this system need to be independent? The answer to this is a simple NO! I made it independent, on purpose, so as to be adaptable, to any model train control system. DC, or DCC. And YES, it is simple to interface with either, using stationary decoders, and or the original concept of a dispatch panel, with direction switches, for "SIGNAL" and "SWITCH" controls. That is, a standard dispatch panel used even up to know. I will upload a simple panel diagram, I use with this system.

NEXT UP!!!

A simple CTC control, for a passing track. Of COURSE, I will take all questions regarding this, at any time, even after the next post.
 

Let the segment begin!!!

Blessings...

Taz...

 

PS - Heads up. I noticed a mistake on the drawing. Where it says "NEXT BLOCK FULL", that caption below it should read, "FROM NEXT BLOCK SIGNAL". SORRY ABOUT THAT.  I'll try to edit better the next post...

 

img.jpeg 

Reply 0
Neil Erickson NeilEr

For us electronically challenged

I love it where the author posts the component layout and assembly photos to hit it home. Consider the pictures below as examples while you assemble and test the board(s). It would help me a great deal. 
 

F552752.jpeg 

192160D.jpeg 

 

Thanks!

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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