Idle power

Here's a prototype view of the scene outside the Bluffs enginehouse on May 24, 2005.

From left to right, GP10 413, GP38AC 627, LLPX SD38-2 2802, IAIS GP8 468, and GP10 483.  Both GP10s have been patched for new owner Power Source Supply (PWSX) and will leave the property just three days after this photo was snapped.  The 627 is at the shop for what are listed as "gear train" repairs, the 2802 is being prepped for IAIS paint, and the 468...well, it looks like it just needs a good long rest.  In spite of appearances, though, the 468 would soldier on for another 3+ years, making its last run on September 26, 2008.  Out of view to the right, inside the enginehouse, is GP38 601, which is getting a complete rebuild and repaint as time allows.  It's already been in for six months, and it'll be another year before it's complete.

And here's my attempt to model the scene above, though the 405 and 401 are temporarily standing in for the 468 and 483, respectively, and all the 400s need some serious weathering.

So where's the fun in modeling dead locomotives?  Well, first of all, the two GP10s, patched for their new owner, help to tell the story of how, in May 2005, the IAIS was really on the verge of taking off.  The GP10s saw the IAIS through its startup struggles and first 21 years of operation, but were now being replaced by new-to-IAIS GP38-2s and SD38-2s.  Those PWSX units will be delivered off to the UP in a few days for forwarding to their new owner, and since the models have been stripped of gears and motors, once they're patched for PWSX and weathered, they'll essentially become rolling stock to be switched.  About once a year during operating sessions, they'll be moved across town to the UP as part of a regular interchange run, and then several months later, they'll reappear back here in storage, once again waiting to be sold off.

GP38AC 627 is the unit I just finished modeling recently.  Since I've now found that it was out of commission during my era, it'll be stripped of its drivetrain, and its Loksound decoder will move over to a UP GP38-2 that's on the workbench.  Unlike the switching action involving the GP10s, the 627, as well as GP38 601 and GP8 468, will stay close to the shop, occasionally being shoved inside or out as work progresses.

The prototype SD38-2 2802 suffered a broken crankshaft around May 13, 2005, so it was dragged out west to Bluffs Yard for painting prep and will then be moved back east to the IC&E at Davenport for the trip to Mid America Car in KC, where it'll get a new crank and new IAIS paint.  Like all the other units shown here, it lacks a motor, gears, and decoder, allowing its moves to and from Bluffs Yard to be modeled as though it's another piece of rolling stock.

So that's it.  All this dead power has a story to tell, and for those who remember the IAIS from 2005, its presence helps to cement the era I'm modeling in their thinking.  Definitely worthwhile models to build for that purpose, even though some of them are unlikely to move more than a few inches from here on out.

Enjoyment

Joe,

I think it is pretty cool that a slice of life can be taken in such detail amd presented for everyone to enjoy. This may not be everyones cup of tea, but I love it..and so does my OCD..lol. The way you can bring operational content to the modeling mode is just icing on the cake.

Engine Shops

I have tossed the idea around of doing something similar to you in regards to modeling a diesel shop with dummy locos. If anyone spends any time observing these shops, especially when track is at a minimum, there can be a lot of shuffling of power. It is also a neat way to add some more “play” value to an operation session of having to setout or pickup a unit due to an inspection or a “problem” with a unit. To bad they cannot make a decoder with a neutral or coast feature that would allow you to run them when you want but let them roll when lied to another unit. 
 

As regards to this time off, I think most modelers have plenty to keep them busy. Maybe instead of going out and buying stuff they may actually slow down, spend some time at the bench and get somethings done. Maybe. 

Nicely done!

That looks great Joe.

Ed

Thank you

Thank you all for your encouragement.

PosPita - It sounds like your OCD and my OCD would get along just fine.   As you said, this stuff isn't for everyone, but I think it's a blast.

Greg - I love that idea!  A mode where no sound would be generated, or they'd alternatively stay at idle, but they'd be sensitive enough to movement that, if there was the slightest push or pull on the drawbar, they'd move along with a fair amount of momentum.  Also, having the ability to set and knock off hand brakes on such units so you could spot them to an engine track or set them out enroute and pull away without having to manipulate consists (since such units may not be at the head end, as seen in the Andy Brown pic below of LLPX 2802 moving east on its way to get a new crankshaft, taken the day after the prototype pic above.) 

As the examples above show, the need for these moves is pretty common in the prototype world, and probably even more so on the Class 1's.  Matt Herman, are you listening?

Ed - Thanks for your kind words.

Greg and Joe, something similar has been done...

...Craig Townsend found a neat trick by Ben Lederer with LS decoders. Joe, it's similar to your "cab swap in a consist" using Function n method.  See this thread on the PT group:

https://groups.io/g/ProtoThrottle/topic/71126870

Ben used it to temporarily make a loco "behave like it was taken out of a consist" by activating a Function under a 2-digit consist address. In his case he wanted the loco to stay stopped as well.

But if you followed his steps to notch it down to idle but not apply brake/drive hold, you could get one or more locos to stay at idle in a consist yet drive normally in that consist

And if you wanted the loco to be dead-in-tow, I think you could also have the prime mover sound turn off in one or more locos by that Function, yet have them still drive normally. 

Pete

Looking good!

I really like how you duplicated the prototype, Joe; right down to the proper placement of the utility poles! Also, well done on capturing that moment in time as it relates to the locomotive status. Modeling at its finest.

Thanks for sharing.

Fran Giacoma

Pete

Pete, thanks very much for the reminder about that thread.  I really enjoyed what Ben did there, and I think it could definitely be applied for some of the purposes we've been discussing here.  One distinction I'd make though:  I'd like to see a decoder function that would cause a locomotive to behave as though it's really in "boxcar mode" with slack running in and out rather than the unit contributing tractive effort.  Subtle difference perhaps, but I think it's readily apparent in operation, and I believe that what's being proposed is possible.  It reminds me a bit of what Soundtraxx has done with Dynamic Digital Exhaust, with the locomotive sensing load and adjusting its performance accordingly.

With such a feature disengaged, the locomotive would behave normally, but engaged, you'd be able to shove the unit by hand and have it coast just like a piece of rolling stock.

Speaking of which, if a drive could be developed around a standard rolling stock truck, the type of decoder feature we're proposing could be used to allow cars to be kicked when switching in a yard.  Wouldn't that be a fun addition to our operations?  And you wouldn't have to equip every car, because just one car in a cut would be enough to force that behavior on the others.  I may start a new thread on that topic.

Fran

Thanks very much Fran!  You made my day. 

I was actually a little surprised as I shot that pic, because as I built that scene, I really tried to nail things like the proper placement of that pumphouse in the foreground in relation to the sand towers.  However, with the compression of any scene, nothing ever seems to align perfectly.  That doesn't really bother me, but it was just an observation as I was trying to replicate a specific prototype pic.  With everything going on in the world right now, it's become easier to keep "problems" like that in perspective.

Solution from the past

While waiting for the creation of a decoder that can simulate a dead locomotive, why not look into the past?  Once upon a time we had Blue Box and similar dummy engines.  It was a simple matter to file the retaining nibs off the sides of the engines and quickly change shells.

Voila!  Active and inactive engines could be rotated in and out of the shops or just run in trains like any car.  I'm still running some engines with the slip-off shells, but no longer have any non-powered mechanisms.

Dead-in-tow

Joe, that's a great concept for sure! 

It would be neat if you could do all that just with some back-emf kind of electronic wizardry for sure. Way above my pay grade though.   

Maybe I'd try it the old-fashioned mechanical way with a coasting drive (most of my O scale locos have that already) and some kind of a servo-operated clutch or dog coupling to take the motor out of the driveline when dead-in-tow. 

Hmmm...

Pete

Great idea!

This is an awesome idea and one advantage of modeling an engine house, plus an opportunity to show off some power that may not be used in operations much.  That's awesome you were able to find so much detailed information about the locomotives going through the engine house and what they were having done during that time.  I really like the idea to model one or two of those PWSX units.  Looking forward to seeing how these locomotives turn out!

Thank you

Neat idea Don.  I've always had plenty of dummies around (as the original post showed), but with enclosed pilots, it's pretty tough to replicate the kind of shell swaps you mentioned.  Oh well...I've got plenty to keep me busy without worrying about having a powered option for those units anyway, and I've recovered a bit of money by selling the motor, decoders, etc. when I de-powered them.

Eric, thanks for your encouragement.  Yes, it's definitely been fun living only 5 minutes from that enginehouse and being able to gather data over the years - especially back in the timeframe I'm now modeling.  I'm with you on looking forward to having those PWSX done so I can generate moves for them during an op session.  Same with the SD38-2.  It came west to Council Bluffs as part of the locomotive consist, but when it moved back east for its trip down to KC, it was mid-train, which I think will be fun to see in model form.

Um.... Dead-in-Tow

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if you want to be able to have a locomotive move in a consist but behave like it's dead by not making any noise.... will hitting F8 do that? I suppose there might still be some random noises.

Not quite

Yes and no Jeff.  When locomotives are moved mid-train in that fashion as shown in the Andy Brown pic of LLPX 2802 I posted about halfway down page 1, they behave just like a freight car.  That train could stop to make a pickup enroute, and the DIT unit would stay put while the power cut off and did its thing.

Greg and Pete offered some ideas that'd allow that to work with powered units, and while that's fun to think about, the more I do so, I'm honestly happy with just operating these units as dummies, as they behave just like any freight car.  I even have them entered in my car forwarding program with the rolling stock, as they'll be blocked and routed the same.

Jeff...

...I think there are two levels here. One is just to mute the sounds but the loco still drives as normal, and the other is to have the loco physically behave like it's a dead-weight in the train i.e. inertia, momentum, slack action etc.

To mute the sound in the consist if you have NCE should be easy, select that cab number and hit F8 off (or equivalent) as you say.

For other DCC systems with a regular NMRA 2-digit Advanced Consist I think you might need to assign a second function to mute the prime mover sound in that loco only, or such like. I only know LS decoders but with them you could also have all the random sounds you didn't want on set to be conditional on that other function as well.    

To have the loco behave like dead weight as well as being silent, I think you need to have a coasting drive and decouple the motor from the drive train.

Unless of course Joe has some fiendish AI and sensor-based control system that can simulate that action with the loco running. Maybe it would go something like this:

1. "Set CV3 to negative 60 and CV4 to negative 255.
2. Turn off back-emf and set forward-emf to 200.
3. Disable all brake functions
4. Set Phasers to Stun". 

Or maybe Tesla's Autopilot would handle it with a few tweaks? 

Pete 

DIT units

Joe,

DIT units are often dead. Ie, prime mover shut down, so I'm not seeing the benefit of having a motor in a DIT unit. Make it a dummy.

"loco mech that rolls like a car"

Dear Joe,

Um, Dr Geoff Bunza has your concept "initially feased"...

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/sma33-working-single-axle-ho-traction-motors-success-at-cajon-pass-12214047

Weight of the loco VS combined 4 or 6x axle motor-torque is going to be the factors for slow-speed operation,
plus maybe some strategic low-ratio gearing
(enough to mechanically aid the motor when "driving", but not enough to make the motor not-"freerolling"),

but file this under "if you _really_ want it, the groundwork has been done,
and trail-to-be-blazed is just waiting for your first steps..."

FWIW, the still-born RailFlyer "axle hung traction motor" system of a few years ago appeared to actually have already "blazed the trail" at least a little bit into the jungle... (Motor + gearing + wheel dia + custom multi-motor control/management electronics),

just a pity that the technology and model-development were sabotaged by unfortunate interpersonal communications and business issues...
(If you are going to Google or MRH-Search "RailFlyer",
stay focussed on the model tech and avoid/ignore the personal noise and flames...)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

DIT units

Hi Craig - That's exactly the situation for the units I'm modeling, so they're all just fine for my purposes as dummies.  However, Greg had the idea of this decoder function that'd allow any powered unit to behave like a DIT unit.  I think it has merit, but I don't know if enough others would feel the same to merit the development investment.