Ops

I've operated on that layout and it was lots of fun.   I'd go back.

Joe Pellegrino - Operations based Layout

What’s the source of “Joe Pellegrino and how he operates” ?  I tried a search on the name but didn’t see the topic.  

Finding a happy operating medium comes with experience.  I guess strict adherence to realism might be overly zealous.  The timesaver switching puzzle has constraints so vexing the prototype would avoid them, but it could be a good teaching tool.
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/timesaver-switching-puzzle-phone-ap-12207112

Lance Mindheim has good information on urban switching and weathering track.  https://www.shelflayouts.com/book-store

https://lancemindheim.com/about-us/weathering-track/

https://www.youtube.com/user/LanceMindheim

Choice

But no less valid than the person who just wants to run trains to watch them orbit.  Nobody goes out and drags people into their basement to operate trains.  The operators on the more involved layouts CHOOSE to operate on them.  The operators select those layouts to operate on because they WANT the realism.

What for Patterson is "too much work" is fun for others.

Is this what you are looking for?

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/21181

I would also ask Mr. Patterson how much WORK did he put in to his perfectly sceniced railroad that goes nowhere? (Caveat - I have no idea of what or if Mr. Patterson has a layout, my questions is rhetorical and only to demonstrate a point.) IF Mr. Patterson had tempered his statement "In my opinion operations is too much like work" it would have been far less condescending.

The enjoyment of any hobby is what the hobbyist wants it to be. Some folks would rather operate trains on a piece of plywood than spend time placing that figurine in that perfect location. I know one modeler who builds superb dioramas, detailed to the 9's, and that is his hot button. No modeler should condemn another modelers enjoyment of the hobby.

If the modeler is enjoying the hobby in what ever manner he/she is, then so be it.

It's coming.

The article referred to is in the March issue which is here:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/magazine-feedback-was-ezines-891776

Wait till tonight to get the RE.

What would this hobby be today if it were not for Joe and MRH, MRH RE and the forums?

next time I will include a Bibliography

Sorry, next time I will include a Bibliography and maybe attach a link to a wiki page too. 

Operations

The great thing about this hobby is that there is plenty of room for an individual to do what ever they enjoy, to what ever level they enjoy doing it.  I personally enjoy building scenery but I also enjoy operating.  No one approach to the hobby is right or wrong.  There are too many experts (in all walks of life) that want to tell you how you should enjoy everything because that is how they enjoy it.

Hold on there, Az...

In upbraiding Ken for his sweeping generalization about ops, you made one of your own, to wit:

< < <

Let's try again.

< < <

How about that?  Add one little four letter word, and the controversy goes away.

Blair

You know there is a

You know there is a difference between 'Model Railroader' and 'Railroad Modeler'?

So to correct you it would be...

< < <

How about that?  

Sure,

tomatoes vs tomatoes, whatever.  It wasn't a contest, just an observation...

Railroad Modelers are

Railroad Modelers are operators who model a railroad system and operations aka Railroad modelers.

Model Railroaders are the builders that model and weather things like cars, super detail engines, scenery, rivets and do sometimes get in to model railroad operations, 

So no it is not tomatoes vs tomatoes,  more like Rib Eye steak vs tomatos.

I'm just making sure you understand the difference.  Most operators that I know refer to themselves as Railroad Modelers as they Model the Railroads and the Railroads respective operating system.

So when I said Railroad Modelers, it is in reference to operations and it would be odd to see someone claim to be a Railroad Modeler that does not have some intention of operating.   If I said Model Railroader you would be correct with your 'some' inclusion.  As some Model Railroaders are into operations and some are not into operations. 

Engineers and Railfans

This is just an extension of the whole "Model Railroaders tend to be on a line with engineers (those who like operations) on one end and Railfans (those who just like to watch trains go) on the other end" thing.

Neither side is wrong in what they prefer. I hear there are some people who don't like chocolate, too. 

Remember Charlie Getz' comments on ops a couple years back and the storm that ensued?

The Ops people have made their own shots at the "roundy-round" layouts.

Both sides seem to like to snipe at each other - which does nothing to improve the hobby.

To a railfan, ops looks like a lot of work - and it frequently is, with the caveat that the people doing the work enjoy it. Lionel Strang, on his A Modeler's Life podcast, has been interviewing Dave Abeles in his last three episodes. Dave has a pretty large layout based on Conrail in 1994, that sounds very active - it's all CTC and fully signaled. He described some of the tasks that that go into prepping the layout for an op session, and Lionel was admitting it sounded like a lot of work. Dave agreed it is - but it's something he enjoys, and one of the other guys who heavily contributes to the layout is the head honcho of the office in NJ Transit that schedules all of their trains. To him that sort of thing is apparently fun - it's a mindset that many don't have, but thank goodness for those who do - because Dave admits he'd never have gotten his layout running the way it is without his friend's help.

To an ops person, a railroad not designed for ops frequently seems, well, boring and pointless. Sure, it may look good, but it's effectively a kinetic sculpture - it's pretty, and it moves, but aside from that the purpose may be a bit obscure. There is a guy semi-locally who put down a lot of money, and probably a fair amount of time, to build an Fn3 layout inside a building designed to look like a Rio Grande freight house. It's gorgeous - a photo I took of it won me an award at a regional convention. But it's designed, basically, for the trains to go in circles. Frankly, after awhile, I'd get bored watching. A raiilfan probably finds it relaxing and fascinating - and is likely to point out a million details I missed.

It seems like trying to insist on a new term, like Railroad Modelers, to mean something specific is just futile, like trying to replace "Deadrail" with "Power on Board" (another from Charlie Getz) or some other term. And it's divisive, when the last thing we need in this hobby is more division - particularly with ire behind it.

Instead, we need to understand that there are many different ways to enjoy the hobby - probably as many as there are people enjoying it. And none of them are wrong.

Semantics

This forum spends more time arguing about semantics that in the end don't really mean anything. 

So thosecwho disagree with you...

are salad fixings.....My ways better than your and if you don't agree shutup!   AZBaja you sir are a one man turn off to any one who may be interested in operating,  Enjoy yourself!

Peace, Bill

Civil War reenactors are just a LARPERing

So it is not a problem calling someone that is a Civil War reenactors just a LARPER?  

The issue is when you deal with the public,  The public asks what are you doing and you say operations,  the public is clueless,  So is that just playing with toy trains????

We have used Railroad Modelers to explain operations what we are doing when dealing with the public for some 15 to 20 years now.  

Joe Public,  what are you doing? 

We are operating, 

So are you Doctors that play with trains?   

operations is meaningless to them.

Bill you done now? or do you having anything useful to say before you return to your safe space...As you provided nothing to this conversation.  Would you like a cookie? 

Yikes

Well that went south fast.