What happens in the helix

A string of cars might come

A string of cars might come out the bottom of a helix, but a train in staging has at least one locomotive. Has anyone ever seen a locomotive coast down a grade when it has no power applied?

DrJolS

trains pointing downhill

yeah, I could have the staging be all on a grade and just keep all the trains pointing downhilll....

was hoping someone had an idea for interfacing flat staging tracks to a sloped helix though. Only way I can think of is to have the helix be an oval, and have the straight sides of the oval be at zero slope with the curves on a slope, and have crossovers to/from the staging loop on one of the straight sections. But that requires really long straight sections to include proper vertical easements.

I wonder how often I'd have a train break in the middle with the cars rolling out the bottom of the helix if I just used sloped staging around the inside of a multi-track helix. Maybe I'm trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist here.

I don't see a reason

for the switches to be level, the non-helix staging track could transition to level beyond the switch, no?

The bigger issue I have with this whole scheme is the concept of needing a helix, but that's a topic that always gets 'heated'.

Blair

Helix staging is good

I have 5 staging tracks in the helix, no problems. There are 2 sets with switches in the middle of the helix and at both ends. Had to build the turnouts to fit the different radius curves and mount the tortoise's to the side, seen in photo. This has been in operation for years. Stick of hardboard in center of photo is checking for plausibility of a third level and more staging in the helix

CB 

Helix as staging

I am currently building a four track helix for my Ann Arbor RR. The prototype ran two north and two south bounds per day, so traffic is light. The helix will represent the Owosso yard.

My operations plan is for a train to go into the helix and hold, while another train departs, in the same direction. The grade is 2%, so I am not worried about roll back with the engines attached ( normally 2 F2). I would not recommend changing the consist with the 0-5-0 switcher on a helix. 

Be careful of what couplers

Be careful of what couplers you use, as some of them may take a 'set' if left in a curved storage configuration.

couplers

Well that's one I hadn't heard, thanks for the warning.  That would give me an important reason to take each train out and run it around and store it pointing the other direction without letting too much time pass between runs. 

Which kinds have that problem? spring or whisker?

@CB: thanks for the pic, I take it you have sloped staging? I think I'll be able to handle hand-laying the necessary curved turnouts, I can do #6's with a fast-tracks jig ok, so it will be a small stretch to hand-lay curved, but not an impossible skill for me to learn I think. That's something I want to learn anyway for the visible part of the layout.

All plastic couplers will "take a set" &

It doesn't matter whether they are on a curve or straight.  They will also loose tension and come apart.  Kaddee whisker type probably won't take a set since the coupler is metal as are the whiskers.  

I think using a helix as a staging yard only works if you are staging entire trains complete with locomotives.  If you try to stage a cut of cars without being coupled to a locomotive, they will run out the bottom.

Helix staging

seems like it could be a maintenance nightmare working on track and turnouts inside a helix.  Also a pain if something comes uncoupled or off the rails. I'd prefer staging out in the open even if it meant building a smaller or less traffic layout .....DaveB 

  Be careful of what couplers

The above comment needs further explanation.

It happened to me when I was

It happened to me when I was using those McHenry couplers that had a 'plastic spring' strip that was meant to close op the coupler jaws themselves. may not occur  on the metal KD's, but I would want confirmation before I proceeded to have curved staging tracks.

Re: staging in Helix issues

To reply to the above comments, yes the staging tracks are on a steady  approximately 2.5 percent grade. Derailments are a pain if on the back track, so good track work is a must. I have trains in staging going both ways and the trains that come in bunched facing down hill will cause the couplers with plastic leaf springs to uncouple if they don't move for awhile. Fix was to replace them all with KD's.

Those are the negatives.

The positive is having some of the staging in the helix gives me more room to operate. The helix trains are run by the computer and run out around the layout then return making for dynamic scenery to the operators on the line. It really adds to a operating session. 

CB

It happened to me when I was

That confirmed my suspicions.  Next will be a chorus of "that's what happens when you use plastic clone couplers".

It doesn't take long time being parked on a curve to cause the older Mc Henrys to work poorly.  I had some sets of Hi-side Thrall gondola's that were never out of the box for years until I ran them.  They would randomly uncouple when there was any slack in them.  Plastic seems prone to a variety of ill effects, so the the chorus that tells you to send them all to the circular file and replace with Kadee's is probably a really good idea.  

Helix staging

One end of our club's layout originates and departs from the top of a helix.  Westbound trains are staged before the session and then positioned on the helix grade before operations begin. We don't leave them on the grade when no one is in the building.  Why tempt fate?

We have been doing this for about five or six years now and it works well.  We have had a runaway or two, but only when human hands and fingers are involved. The helix is built as simply as possible.  Derailments are few and are usually traced to problems that start outside of the helix. There is one 'up' track, one 'down' track, and one track that connects the very top to a mezzanine level three-track parking lot that feeds eastbound trains into the layout.  There are no turnouts in the helix structure and each of the three tracks is a constant radius rising at about 2%.

Almost all of our couplers are the HO-scale Kadees on a centered shank.  A very small number are the "scale head" couplers on factory equipped ready-to-run cars.  We might have one Kadee failure on the railroad every year, out of 850 cars.

Our typical train staged in the helix is three diesel units, a caboose, and 25 to 30 cars.

If your physical situation calls for a helix, or staging, or both combined, I see no reason you can't engineer and built one that is very reliable.

You can certainly do this,

You can certainly do this, but I’d ask, “why?”

if you are already building a helix, then going to an additional deck gives you far more space for a more traditional staging. Like it can be the footprint of the entire layout.

I have two helixes, one at each end, that goes to a lower deck that is all staging. Bill Schneider had two scenicked decks, and the helix continued to a third deck for just staging. It would be much easier to work with in my opinion.

Randy

Why?

One potential design I've been kicking around in my head is a single-deck that runs around the room on a grade, since I want to model grades and mountains. Then the helix would directly connect the top of the grade to the bottom of the grade, and I could have a loads-out empties-in pair of industries one at the top of the grade and one at the bottom. Using the helix for staging seems simpler than having a separate deck for staging.

If I have a staging deck, I have to figure out how I'm going to get at the turnouts for maintenance on them. OTOH, if there are turnouts in a helix, that's certainly not easy, but I would have access from the side at least, vs a turnout in a low-clearance staging deck that's way back in under everything. Also, I could move the turnouts out of the helix so there are just 4 separate helix tracks: up, down, staging up and staging down, with the turnouts before and after the helix. For the amount of rolling stock I (don't) have, that would be plenty of staging, and all the turnouts would be accessible.

So that's why.