@Andre re:Wrecking Cranes

Hi Andre,

Athearn, Bachmann, Walthers, Mantua, Tyco, American Flyer HO, Lionel HO, TruScale, Silver Streak, Train Miniature, Varney,Lifelike, Gould, Tichy, Overland Models, Red Ball, Tenshodo, Lambert, IHC, Model Power, Stewart, Custom Finishing, and  Rio Grande Models all made rail cranes of varying sizes.

Athearn, Bachmann, Walthers, Mantua,Lifelike, Tichy, and Model Power, Custom Finishing, and  Rio Grande Models are the more contemporary producers. Of these, Athearn, Bachmann, Walthers, Mantua, Lifelike, Tichy, and Model Power produced larger cranes like you mentioned. Many of these could be "operated" via hand cranks. Walthers, Overland Models and Tenshodo made cranes that could move themselves on rails (DC Powered). There was one brass model that could also move its boom or hook (I don't remember which) but I think it required some switch or lever to be thrown.

All of the above were American prototypes. The Athearn Bucyrus crane could be converted from steam to diesel just like their prototypes. Some of these are still extant on American railroads, but getting fewer every day.

Roco made a rail crane and a gantry crane that were based on European prototypes with cab rotation, boom and hook movement by DCC remote control. Marklin also made an early gantry crane that was motorized (but the gantry was really a fixed tower). The Roco cranes used an ingenious set of ultrasound motors! I think the old Marklin used a single AC motor with some interesting gearing. One version of the Roco rail crane was similar to an American prototype.

You can convert an Atheran crane (still made intermittently) to DCC control with 3 motors, lights and sound by looking here: Bring a Wrecking Crane to Life in Model Railroad Hobbyist Mag Aug 2012  https://issuu.com/mr-hobbyist/docs/mrh12-08-aug2012-ol-h1?viewMode=presentation 

Bernd also reported on his efforts animating an Atheran crane here:  New Turret Drive Design for Athearn Crane  https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/new-turret-drive-design-for-athearn-crane-12193886

'Hope this helps. Have fun! 
Best regards,
Geoff Bunza

Wrecking Crane

Andre: just my near worthless two cents, but the Rock Island kept cranes very similar to the Gould / Tichy model until the bitter end, in fact, one such crane is on display in Galveston, Texas.  I would not expect a struggling road such as your KC&G to sport fancy equipment such as the Athearn six axle heavy crane represents.  The Gould / Tichy model has been designed very well and I found it to be a sincere pleasure to assemble.  The same kudos are applied to the matching model of the crane tender car that could accompany the wrecking crane.  Fishnmack

Step by Step mod of wreck crane

Andre you'll find a step by step of my Athearn wreck crane on my web site. My is controlled with a Deltang R/C system using battery power.

http://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Crane-1A.html

Thanks Geoff for mentioning my build. You were the inspiration for that project.

Bernd

Boom

They wouldn't actually use the boom to do the "heavy lifting" because using the boom changes the angle of the cables.  It doesn't lift straight up, it also pulls the car/engine being lifted towards the crane (or the crane towards the car/engine).  Since the crane is hooked to the rails and may have outriggers extended, anything that would cause the crane to move along the rail would be a bad thing.  You want to lift straight up.

Replies...

Geoff:

Excellent work. And, yes, that looks like a bunch of fun... and can add a new twist to significant derails! I doubt that I'll ever have the where-to-fore or drive to create such a masterpiece, so I'll likely have to enjoy your, and Bernd's, effort vicariously.

Fishmack:

Bingo. That's been bothering me, too. That 200 ton Athearn model is quite the "DE-lux package". I've seen models of the Gould/Tichy crane. I agree that definitely looks like something the KC&G would have left over from the steam years. (Just like the Rock Island.) I just looked at a pdf of the assembly instructions for the Gould/Tichy crane and it appears it is static, with no "operating" capability as designed. (I think the AHM and the Athearn models have rudimentary cranks that can be used if one is hard up and determined to have a functioning crane, albeit rather crude.) Because of the KC&G's "low budget" approach, I actually like the looks of the AHM model for to fill that desire. It's smaller, more compact than the Athearn, and just looks the part better. Here's a pic of one:

Bernd:

Yes, I recall that excellent model. Again, I think such a functioning masterpiece is way beyond what I am envisioning (and capable of), but your workmanship is superb. It's definitely day dream material!

All:

The seedling for this silliness:

At my last operating session, one of my operators had a low speed "un-railment". He ended up with two cars on their sides. I tried to determine the cause to the best of my ability and eventually just sort of chalked it up to "one of those deals". (On the prototype, provided the train handling data is good, typically such a situation causes blame to be placed on "a stiff truck".)

Anyway, as I was going about checking things over, he mentioned the need to call out "the big hook".

That one little comment planted the seed. It didn't help when I was texting another crew member (that wasn't in on that session) about the fun little derail we had... and he surprisingly suggested it might be fun to have such a crane on hand "south" or "north" to dispatch to the scene and handle such an unexpected situation as an operational scenario!

So, now I thinking it might be fun to actually DO that. In other words, treat such a derail as a big deal and set about the taking the needed actions (in regards to trains currently on line and such) and start the process of "cleaning up" the mess.

Originally, I hadn't thought in terms of the crane actually being operable, but once I started looking at Athearn/AHM/etc models, it appeared they may be via hand crank, so warmed up to the idea of them being operable if desired.

SO... just kickin' this idea around to see where it leads!

Andre

@Dave H. re:Boom, boom, boom...

Hi Dave,

You are correct. I learned that lesson years ago about two seconds after that video went live! 
Have fun! 
Best regards,
Geoff Bunza

Wrecker

I was cleaning up a wreck using a similar wrecker to pick up some derailed boxcars.  They were loaded with rolls of paper, so had shifted.  The wrecker was set up and started working which was tough because the rolls had shifted the car was out of balance and leaning.  Its amazing that those cables will cut right through the steel sides of a boxcar.  Anyway we got one end of the boxcar up on the track and were lifting the other end, when the main hydraulic line burst (the crane was diesel powered and used hydraulic motors to run the cable drums).  Oil was just pouring out the back of the crane.  

Unfortunately with the hydraulic line broken we couldn't continue to lift the car nor could we put the car down.  We were stuck until the mechanical dept. drove into town and had a new hydraulic line made, installed it and refilled the hydraulic fluid.

Several very interesting calls with the Superintendent and Asst. Chief Dispatcher.

PS:  A couple years later, I was transferred to a location 1000 miles away, and found out that same crane had been sent to that location also.  Fortunately it was retired there and the last time I saw it, it was in a railroad museum nearby.

I can see having a "static" crane on a layout, but

I'm not sure that there is any point to animation of one.  Even with one animated with the motors, can you actually use one to lift and rerail a car?  I can see having a model or even 2 that would be dispatched to the scene of a wreck at scale speed before "5 fingering" the cars back on the track if the cars fell on their sides.  That would add delays in the operations liked was suggested in a previous thread.  You could even establish a "time penalty"  to get the car(s) back on the track after the crane(s) arrived on scene before the right of way would be reopened to traffic.

Mo' Replies...

Dave:

I didn't see that you had posted prior to my previous reply. Good point about keeping the boom as vertical as possible for a lift, which seems to pretty much be standard fare for proper crane operation. Also an interesting anecdote about the clean up you were involved in!

Russ:

In Geoff's video he linked above, he uses his automated crane to re-rail a steam locomotive.

Yup, you are understanding what I'm considering: Let a rare occurrence like a cars on their sides actually have an impact on the operating session. In my case, that will ultimately result in GHA to get the cars re-railed, but I do think I would enjoy the challenges of managing the results of such an event to the modeled railroad operations.

All:

I do think this idea (amass a wreck train) has made it to the "Definite Maybe" list, but I do need to decide how I want to do this. (i.e. Which crane model, etc.)

Sounds like fun!

Andre

Many uses for wrecking cranes

Thanks!

...for the input Charles!

I have spent some of the afternoon wringing my hands over what would be the "correct" model for the KC&G. (How silly!)

Likely the "best" model would be the Tichy. However, it would likely be years before I ever got around to painting/assembling the little model... and then there's the static nature of it.

Seeing as i want something to use as quickly and painlessly as possible (I'm constantly working on the rolling stock roster, engines, etc, and for sure didn't want a pile of parts to paint/assemble like the Tichy model), I've decided to purchase the above AHM crane and car and thus I at least have a wrecker on hand. With a basic change-out of the wheels/couplers, it can be pressed into service should there again be a need for a hook to be called out on the rails of the KC&G!

At least, that's my story an' I'm 'a stickin' to it!

Andre

Cranes

Cranes are used around the shop and I have seen them swapping out bridge girders on a large steel viaduct, but they aren't something you just call out on a whim because they are very expensive to operate.

They have to be moved in a special train by themselves (not in a regular freight) so just  to turn a wheel cost $1000 per crew district.  Then they have 3-6 carmen  with them (depending on size) to handle the rigging, set up and operation. They are speed restricted so there is a cost in interference with the regular train operation.

Speed restrictions

Probably 20 years ago now I remember listening to a long (for railroad radio traffic anyway) and interesting discussion on the scanner one evening between a crew and the dispatcher trying to figure out if they were allowed to move a crane in a train with the boom forward and if so what the speed restriction would be.

Look in etts for speed restrictions

It might work to use a crane to right a steam engine,

or even a freight car with brass details, but I think trying to use a crane to right modern, highly detailed plastic freight car would probably destroy most of those fragile details. 

MOW Crane, perhaps?

This conversation reminded me of two models in my older stash, so I went digging in the container to see what it actually was.  Turns out it is a lightweight, in the tonnage-of-crane department.  Sample pulled from auction:

Walthers 25-ton Brownhoist on Ebay

Memory didn't serve me well, I actually built my kit to the point just shy of running the boom rigging.  It and the tender have a date with an airbrush, sometime in the distant future...

Cranes under 40 ton capacity

Cranes

If the crane has a "lattice" boom, longer, more slender, an open truss work, it is most likely an engineering department crane (MOW).  They are used for handling track material, unloading rail, spikes, tie plates, frogs, etc. and for handling switch and bridge material.  The larger cranes in the 75-100 ton capacity are used by bridge gangs for handling bridge timbers, pilings, girders and pile drivers.  None of these are used for rerailing cars.  They don't have the rigging and don't have the lifting capacity.

Wreckers, operated by the mechanical department, generally have solid, stout, shorter booms.  They have the rigging to support lifting cars and engines (spreader bars, slings, blocks, etc).

Different purposes, different arrangements, different "owners" in the railroad.

Received!

Got my AHM crane today. Already sat down and modified the crane and tender car for Kadee couplers and installed metal wheelsets. It's already been sent up north to the division point between the Branson Sub and the Ozark Sub. (i.e. It's been placed on track in the North Stage!)

Love it. Much smaller than the larger 200 ton Athearn. In fact, it's almost as small as the Gould/Tichy! Looks husky, yet compact, and I think its overall visuals are in keeping with my KC&G concept.

A pic:

The parts in front are four out-riggers/stabilizers (left), and the crank handle (far right). Kind of fun to raise/lower the boom and hook. Now... hope we have a derail soon that sends a call out for the hook.

Andre

Multiple cranes for Loco derailments

Hi all, 

I've personally seen a 150 ton steam crane and a 75 ton steam crane tag-team on a lift recovering a derailed diesel locomotive. 

Somewhere I've seen 3 large US cranes  tag-teaming on recovering a steam locomotive from a river after a derailment (C&O passenger train? Sportsman/Champion/FFV?? or similar named express. The cranes were on their own temporary track and anchored at the rear to other steam locomotives. It was probably the "hairiest" looking drag/lift attempt I've seen.   

Even a 45-ton Craven breakdown crane can be a really useful piece of kit around a railway yard when not on breakdown recovery duties, as shown in the following photos. Remember UK stuff is considerably smaller than US stuff that runs on rails, so 75 tons was about as big as the UK breakdown cranes ever got. 

Yes steam operated cranes are still out there. Sometimes you even get lucky enough to see them in action,

Things started out well —

... then went downhill fast!

Details are sketchy. All I know is this was in St. Charles, Ontario. My mistake! Quebec.

Is that milepost "0" there? 

Out on the main things were moving along OK:

From what I can surmise, the crew had to take a siding to let this first class train pass. This wasn't a good idea since the curvature of the track seems to have moved the center of gravity to the inside of the curve and —

The results weren't pretty. Looking at the other side: (hidden by the steam)

Perhaps it was just an experiment to try to reduce the time needed to take on water? I'd sure like to see the official report on this one.

Regards, Ed

At least they had cranes

At least they had cranes immediately available to start the cleanup...

Ed, Now that would be a neat

Ed, Now that would be a neat scene/incident to create in HO scale.

I wonder what the base of the tower is made of.

As far as multiple cranes go, here's a gem

http://algomacentral.railfan.net/images/AlgoCenRy/AC_Mile_4_wrk-11_5-29-1980.jpg

Yep, three 200+ ton cranes to right and raise an SD40.  Ted introduces this photo, with the following text.  This might be more disruption for your schedule than you were expecting, Andre!

This photo shows the 2 big CPR hoists leased from them along with the ACR's one hoist (in the middle) that were required to rerail the 182. The CPR charged $10,000 per day per hoist, and they were on the ACR for about 2 weeks. During this time, all freights ran at night, so the work crews could have track and time all day. May 29, 1980.

This wreck at Mile 4 was caused by sabotage. A former sectionman who had been fired by the ACR stole some track tools from the CPR and spent most of one night taking out one 39 ft section of rail. When No. 12 came around the corner (going downhill) they could not stop in time. By luck, the first unit stayed upright, and no one was hurt. The trailing 2 units and the first dozen or so cars derailed. 

All bold text by T. Ellis, former ACR employee.

Andre, maybe you have an option - don't have an incident, just run the train to the nearest interchange, and bill it to the "other railroad" for a period of time for work service, then bring it back.

Blair