Curved Turnouts

Like you I found these curved turnouts extremely useful,..forgot where I posted it, but I wrote in PRAISE of these double-curved turnouts (as Peco and the Brits refer to them),....in lieu of just curved turnout.

early examination of stock commercial ones,
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/interesting-track-plan-tupper-lake-faust-junction-12208132
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/curved-turnouts-inout-radii-12195525

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do you know if the curves have a common center of if they are offset?

Common point of tangency?

Greg, I think your question is a common point of tangency, or are the two curves separated by a third transition curve?  (The centers of two intersecting curves of different radii will never be common, of course.)

I'm curious about that too.  My current plan has a curved turnout on it that I may end up building myself and I'm not quite sure how much transition between the two radii I should allow for, if any.

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you're right.   they can't have the same center.

what i found was that if both curve start at the same point (point of tangency?) the frog is fairly far away.    However, if one curve starts sooner, the frog is closer to the points

I'm not smart enough I guess

I downloaded Templot a few years ago, but I found the interface too intimidating to do anything with it. I do hand-lay track, so it would be a good thing to have, but I suppose I don't want it enough to get through the learning process. I just work from a sketch and use a few templates of various radii, and then I just fudge it. People say the track looks OK.

As Greg says, a curved turnout can astonish you with how long it is from points to frog. You simply have to let it be what it is.

curve alignment

the drawings illustrate the frog position depending on where the curves start.   I believe commercial curved turnouts are more like the one on the right

" a curved turnout can

and all that length is wasted space if it's a passing siding or yard track. The way to minimize the waste is to design the inner curve to be your minimum radius then insert a short length of straight or near straight track in the outer route starting at the points and extending  as far as necessary to blend in with the outer route curve.Here is a yard turnout on my S layout showing the concept. Either route of this could be the main if needed as the inner route is built to my layout minimum radius.....DaveB

learning curve

it was a steep curve but I'm thinking about making a beginners instruction sheet.

I am still learning the advanced stuff but my full layout was done in about 20 hours total from not being able to anything to 50+ turnouts and very few feet of straight track.

I recognize that this is not very prototypical, but neither is having 200' of track in a 10 x 17'' room

I'd gladly help if you have a couple turnouts you want laid out

tc

Curved Turnout & Crossover Template Designer (CTnCTD)

For various turnout designs/geometry combinations, another option could be to use Proto:87's CTnCTD which seems much easier/friendlier to use than Templot.

Full Scale Track Planning

I don't think I could have done this with a computer plan,...full scale template planning was even difficult.

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/logging-locos-logging-track-plan-logging-mill-mainline-pickup-12213119

It started out like this,...
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/container-port-ideas-images-12213693

More Multiple Dbl-curves

I have another place where those dbl-curve turnouts came in handy,...

Wouaw guys please

I hope we don't fall again in the debate of the starting radius and final radius and where the radius start and scientific calculation to know where is the tangent of the arc and so forth

We all  know  the model turnouts are not designed with a real tangent calculation, they are made to fit the line geometry, no more and we must live with it.

Only handlay turnout can be designed with the good tangent arc and position of the frog like their prototype counterpart.

We have the chance to have  a big offering of curved turnouts, they are done the way they are and we need to use them in the offered configuration and it seems many layouts have used them without many troubles and scientific calculations and complains.

There is a so easy way to forget the problem of the inner radius and outside radius and find the tangent arc when you lay these ready to run turnout and obtain extremly smooth continious track. and radius

I use some curved turnout in the design of my track layout.

But when I put a curved turnout on place, I didn't trace a radius with a compass but use a flexible yardstick to trace the curves; this give extremly flowing curves and track design which flow all the way.

Even different radius of the turnout are mixed together and can be made easily parallel with a flowing way.

And course no calculation; the only thing I take care is not to go under a minimum radius of 19" in my N scale design.

Here is a flowing group of #8 Fastrack curved turnouts in N scale with the track lay with the flexible yardstick method without any use of a compass, any use of a tangent drawing line, any calcul,  just the turnout put in place and the yardstick to design the curves, a 3 minutes work and I can lay the flextrack piece in a curved flowing way.

Flex track planning

To expand on Marc’s point a little, on technique I’ve read about to plan a curved turnout is to use a piece of freely curving flex track (i.e. like altas, not like ME) to tack down where you want the track to be first for one leg, and then for the other leg of the curved turnout.  You put a large sheet of paper over the spot where the turnout will be and tape it carefully along one edge so you can flip it away and back down.  Tack the flex track along one route, flip paper down, trace the rails.  Flip paper up, re-tack the flex track along the other route, flip paper down, trace the rails again.  Now you’ve got a custom turnout template that fits your needs exactly.

templot sketchboard

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Templot has a sketch function that makes a track plan into a schematic and then lets you add shapes to, or in reverse, provides a sketch to add actual templates to (you can also upload scanned pencil drawings)

truly an amazing program

if anyone has a particular set of curves or turnouts needing a template i can help

I am considering coming up with beginners instructions because I spent hours just navigating the menus to figure out what to do

I could use a template

TC - I too have struggled understanding Templot.  It looks like a very powerful tool, but with a steep learning curve.  I am trying to lay out a curved crossover in one of my towns.  The outer radius is 45" and the inner radius is 43.75".  I am modeling N scale, using ME code 55 with 1.25" track center line spacing on areas where the layout is double-tracked.  Do you have any suggestions as to how I should proceed?

Thanks,

Scott

any suggestions as to how I should proceed?

Is the goal to build the turnout or is it to just learn the program?  There's simple ways to mechanically lay out a crossover full size in N scale if that's what you are trying to do.....DaveB

The goal is to just build the

The goal is to just build the crossover.  At this point, this is the only "special" trackwork that I need to build.  Everything else is just standard turnouts...at least for now.  I suppose I could use the paper idea and trace over track rails.  I think I have some old Atlas flex track somewhere.

Scott

use the paper idea and trace over track rails?

  That could work but I find it easier to cut out thin cardboard (or thick paper ) templates to roadbed width and use them instead. I'd draw out a short length of the roadbed for the inner and outer curves on a piece of paper( find a place where you can drive in a small nail and hook a tape measure on it to swing the 43.75 and 45 inch radius curves), then use a mimimum radius curve template (I guess 43.75 inch in this case) to connect the two curves,adding a short tangent section thru the points and frog area. Using the roadbed width templates to create a turnout base gives you the outline of where to glue down your ties. Some of the ties will be longer and some shorter so you need to figure out where the various lengths should go before cutting out the turnout base. Are you planning to use PC board ties or spike to wooden ties? For N scale I'd recommend using PC board ties as spiking into small ties is harder than it is in larger scales.....DaveB

Hi Scott,I'm the developer

Hi Scott,

I'm the developer of Templot.

Happy to create a crossover template for you and post it here. But I need to know the size of turnouts you want. Often for curved crossovers #10 turnouts are suitable. Also whether Left-Hand or Right-Hand.

This is a Left-Hand #10 crossover in N-NMRA gauge on 45"/43.75" radius. The smallest radius in the crossover road is 22.4".

Sorry it's so large, I can't see how to scale it down for this site. Here's an image link:

  https://85a.co.uk/forum/gallery/2/original/2_142226_010000000.png

If you have Templot (free) I can post the file so that you can print it out. Or post a PDF file.

Or you might need some other size.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin, Yes, I was also

Martin,

Yes, I was also thinking of a #10, and a LH is what I need (just as you have drawn it).  I did download the software earlier this week, so I do have it.  My minimum radius on the layout is 18", so the 22.4" would be perfect.

DaveB:  I am going to use PCB ties.  I have several Fast Tracks turnouts built with jigs (I have their #6 and #8 fixtures).  This will be my first build with a template.

Thanks for all of your help,

Scott

  "This will be my first

Hi Scott, Since you've built fastrack turnouts you should find the process fairly easy.First thing to decide is what are you going to glue the ties to. You could glue them to a temporary pasper base then glue the completed turnout to the roadbed. I prefer to build mine by gluing the ties to a thin plywood roadbed and then install the whole unit when done. The next thing is how to hold the pieces in gauge while soldering them up. I use some homemade gauges and some heavy weights  to hold the tracks in place while I final check them with an NMRA gauge as I solder them. I find it easier to start by bending and soldering the outside stock rails then the frog rails ,then the closure rails and lastly the points.If you don't want point hinges the points and closure rails must be fit as one continous unit.  Let us know how it's going when you start laying the turnout ....DaveB

2mm finescale

I have used Templot for some 2mm finescale track. Irish broad gauge (10.5mm) using code 40 track. The program is awkward to use. Ever time I go back to it I have to work out how it works again, but it does some great stuff.

Everything is adjustable. On the double slip switch below, you can still see that it is still on the template. Using spray adhesive I stuck the sleepers down first and then started adding track. They slip around a bit until the track is soldered on. Two pages of the template are taped together and they are just pinned to double thickness foamboard. You can also see a double pin for holding track for soldering. In Templot each sleeper length and location was adjusted to look close to the Victorian Railways standards. My scribbles show the sleeper length so I can easily find the location for each sleeper.

Prior to this project I had built some Fast Tracks turnouts so understood how it was all supposed to work. This gave me the confidence to lay track and turnouts off of a template rather than in a jig.

Here's the Templot file

Hi Scott,

Here's the file for Templot. If you have Templot installed on a Windows system this link should open directly in Templot:

https://85a.uk/scott_railroad_hobbyist.box

Before printing it, for N gauge I recommend setting output> line thickness> thin lines for a neater result:

cheers,

Martin.

Thank You

Martin,

Thanks so much for taking the time to create this for me.  I printed out the template and will begin construction as soon as my materials that I ordered last night from Fast Tracks arrive.

Thanks to everyone else for their help, and my apologies for hijacking the thread...

I will post photos of the crossover, hopefully within a couple of weeks.

Scott