towazy

I am looking for suggestions for precision machined alignment dowels for joining modules together. The modules in question have multiple tracks and I’ve been having issues with accurate alignment over time. I’ve tried a few ad hoc solutions,some better than others,but most have not met my expectations. I’m  looking for something along the lines of what the British modelers use, male/female pins mortised into the ends of the modules. I have checked some of the British sites,but they don’t ship internationally so I’m looking for an American source. I’m open to all suggestions for an accurate solution.

Thanks in advance for all responses.

Tom

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Alignment

Check out Craig’s solution here:  https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/finally-getting-to-the-track-on-the-office-park-zone-12205129

I’ve used dowels into holes drilled in oak end plates with some success. They worked better with a little wax but were plenty tight. 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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Bill Pannell Limacharlie48

Table Pins

Search for table pins, they work perfectly and much better than most any homemade I've seen or attempted.Here is one example from amazon;

http://www.amazon.com/Table-Pins-10/dp/B003FHOQ6O

 

Bill

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ctxmf74

 "I’ve tried a few ad hoc

Quote:

 "I’ve tried a few ad hoc solutions,some better than others,but most have not met my expectations. I’m  looking for something along the lines of what the British modelers use, male/female pins mortised into the ends of the modules."

What have you tried that didn't work? I've found that any thing that will fit in a tight hole or slot is accurate enough to keep track in alignment unless the wood work/ track installation is moving around from humidity or transport stress. My usual connection method is just 1/4 inch carriage bolts in a tightly drilled hole then tightened with washers under the nuts to the point that the washers depress the wood a bit. There are commercial things like pattern maker's dowels that can register the two surfaces but you still have to bolt the sections or add some kind of latching device so end up spending more time and money to do the same job. .....DaveB

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rocdoc

Pattern makers dowels

Hi Tom

I and others in my group have used machined steel pattern makers dowels. They are a snug fit after gluing and screwing to the endplates. We got them from Eileen's Emporium in the UK -

https://eileensemporium.com/eileens-emporium-products/category/1112-patern-makers-dowels

They shipped to Australia so I don't see why they wouldn't send them to the US.

Tony

Tony in Gisborne, Australia
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towazy

@DaveB

I tried the exact method you described. It worked for awhile but after time the rails were just off enough on the horizontal plane to cause derailments. The vertical has never been an issue. Thinking 1/4” bolts going through       1 1/2  inches of wood might allow for enough play to allow the minute movement,but enough movement to cause derailments,I went to a 1/2” bolt. This also worked for awhile but...I then turned my attention to the track itself. I went to PC ties at the gap between sections with the rail soldered to the ties, the ties soldered to screws screwed directly into the wood frame. This almost eliminated the issue,but over time I had to unsolder and resolder the rails to get them in sync. Not that big of an issue but I’m looking for a permanent alignment solution. The pattern maker dowels are my next experiment. That is what I’m looking for. Or some other idea I haven’t thought of,hence this post. My thinking is even if the humidity causes slight movement in the wood,these alignment pins will pull everything into alignment when the sections are pushed together. I’ll continue to use the bolts to fasten things tight. The only pattern dowels I can find are from British sources who don’t ship internationally. I looked at the ones Bill from above recommended, and those are an option,but the British ones look much more stable. The British variety use three screws to secure them to the wooden frame as opposed to a press fit into drilled holes of those Bill pointed out. I find it odd these aren’t available in the US, or at least I can’t find them.

Tom

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ctxmf74

"My thinking is even if the

Quote:

"My thinking is even if the humidity causes slight movement in the wood,these alignment pins will pull everything into alignment when the sections are pushed together. "

  Hi Tom,   It seems like any wood movement would just spread the dowel pins along with the wood so the pins would still align but the rails might not?   I think it would be possible to figure out why the rails are moving then design something that could fix the problem. If the wood is actually expanding or contracting it seem that the amount of mis -match  would vary as the distance across the section increases( Align the nearest rails and see it the farther-est rails align the same or if they are different).If the front and rear rails both have the same mis-alignment that would indicate that the alignment/clamping bolts are not tight enough in their holes or are not tightened enough in their clamping force. If it is indeed wood movement causing the problem then various ways to connect the pieces could solve the problem. End material that is more stable, maybe a humidifier or other room climate control, segmenting the end of section pieces so each track has it's own alignment bolt forcing the mis -alignment to more flexible scenic buffers between the tracks, etc. Dowel pins with three screws would only improve the situation if the pins and three screws add up to more alignment holding surface than a bolt with a big washer tightened into the wood, which might not be likely?  I'd work on discovering what is exactly causing the problem first then decide the easiest way to fix it . Keep us posted on what you find, it will be interesting to see how it works out. ......DaveB

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Arizona Gary

Have you looked at Gary Green's website?

Perhaps his methodology might work for you.  http://garymgreen.com/handbook_appendix_2_end_plates.html His appendix on end plates (Appendix 2) by Gregg Fuhrman, does talk methodology and in Section 7, discusses alignment pins. Even has a link to photographs of his own method being implemented and a link to his parts source.

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towazy

@Tony

Thanks For that lead and link Tony. That is exactly what I was looking for. I placed an order for three sets.

 

     Tom

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towazy

@DaveB

I’ve been trying to diagnose the problem for years. I’ve gotten it to a point where it’s not as bad as it used to,but still not perfect. I am quite sure it is a wood/ humidity/ expansion/ contraction issue. Over time it has gotten better as the wood seasoned and dried it seems,but since the alignment for track without using joiners is critical,I could never completely eliminate it as built. The soldering to PC ties at the joints made making adjustments easier,but there was still the effort to resolder and touch up the affected scenery. I guess as a last resort I could rebuild with metal,but I’m going to try the pattern makers dowels first. Another option is using rail joiners but since as I said in my original post there are multiple tracks involved,it would become a tedium I’d rather avoid every time the section is removed. 
 

Tom

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towazy

@Gary

Thanks for that link. What he’s doing is exactly what I want to do,the difference being in the hardware used. I’ve read good things about the pattern makers dowels in a few places. They seem to be very popular with the British modelers,who build modules as way of life. The Fremo modelers and other modular groups on this side of the pond get around the alignment issue by using a short piece of track to bridge the gap in most cases.I’d like to avoid that and just have the rails match up at the ends and the scenery completely blended in. Since my module is just a removable section for access to my sump pump and main breaker panel,it isn’t removed very often,but enough to cause minor headaches. 
 

Tom

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Bill Pannell Limacharlie48

Function

Generally, if the mating end plates are true to each other the pins are not really holding much, their purpose being alignment only prior to locking. The slickest purpose made I've ever seen (and used) are the units from Kam konnect, you can buy the modules knocked down and save a ton on shipping costs,  https://www.kamkonnect.com/ 

They use large diameter hardwood dowels and coffin locks, mine are bullet proof. I have also used the table pins I mentioned in an earlier post with locks such as you would fine under your dining table, also bullet proof - the key is as shown in the article attached by Arizona Gary above, if the ends are not true to each other you build in tension to the joint and will struggle with alignment.

Best,

Bill

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Steve kleszyk

Have you considered door hinges?

Interior door hinges work well. Install as a whole and then pull the pin as needed.  They will line up exactly as last time and won't wear out like dowels will. If you don't want to see then you can mount them under and recess them in so it will sit flush

IMG_8728.jpg 

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UglyK5

Depending on your application

Depending on your application French cleats might be helpful. Over a year on my 5 track yard lift out section with no issues. It’s about as simple as you can get. Further info here:  https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/shelf-layout-eastward-expansion-12211326

jeff

—————————————
“Think before you post, try to be positive, and you do not always have to give your opinion.....”
-Bessemer Bob
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ctxmf74

"Since my module is just a

Quote:

"Since my module is just a removable section for access to my sump pump and main breaker panel"

   Hi Tom,   Be aware that you'll need some slack to put in pattern makers dowels, so the section on one side or other of the joint will have to be moved out a bit....DaveB 

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Tim Moran Speed-Mo Tim

Another method for alignment using copper plumbing items

Tom,

I have used a method "borrowed" from my friends in MN Free-mo that uses copper plumbing items for alignment pins and sleeves. The pins are made from 1/2" copper tubing with a "T" section on one end to act as a handle for removing/inserting the pin. The sleeves are 1/2 copper couplings without the center tab. The tab restricts the movement of tubing completely through the coupling.

After the modules are perfectly aligned and clamped, I drilled 2 holes to allow for the clearance of the couplings into the endplates of the modules. The modules were then separated and the couplings were epoxied in place while making sure the couplings were flush with the endplate. After the epoxy cured, the modules were aligned and the pins slid through the couplings. Clamps keep everything in place but the pins/sleeves did all the aligning. A light coat of car wax will inhibit any corrosion on the fittings. The flush ends remove the need for additional space when the modules need to be separated.

Respectfully,

Tim Moran Akron, OH

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atsfcf7

Door hinges

I second the use of door hinges.  I have built a 5 x 9 foot modular railroad that comes apart into three 3 x 5 sections; stored in a rack.  The sections are joined with door hinges.  No issues with alignment after 3 years; stored in a hot Texas garage.

 

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towazy

Door hinges vs piano hinges

Some of you have recommended the use of door hinges. Is that just for alignment purposes, ie, butting the sections together and inserting the pin to secure,or are they being used to swing the sections down or out? If that is the case,would a piano hinge give better strength and accuracy. Curious what those with experience think...pros and cons.

 

       Tom

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Steve kleszyk

No swing.. pull the pin...

to separate each section.  Line the separated  sections up and insert the pin to join them back together just as they were

 

Steve

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Strength VS Accuracy

Dear Tom, By dint of their increased number of mechanical interactions, a "piano hinge" is by-nature more-accurate in the linear plane (longitudinal with the pin). However they are typically thinner in material cross-section (weaker, lower load-rating) and cheaply-available pressed/formed versions typically have very poor pin dia<>bore dimensions (too sloppy in the Yaw and Rotational axes). Decently-sized removable-pin hinges (in the 100-150mm X 40mm range) have far more strength, and are made with thicker material. The 3-2 or 4-3 interlacing however is less than a comparable-length piano hinge. While mathematically this reduces linear alignment accuracy, the achievable accuracy dimension is still within "what the task requires", _Assuming you deliberately purchase "tight fitting" hinges in the first place!!!_ (if you can hold one leaf of the hinge in your hand, and "flip the hinge open/closed/open" with a flick of your wrist, it's TOO SLOPPY for module alignment duty! It has to require you to finger-pry it open in order to be "tight enough" for alignment work) The larger hinges still have some (IMHO unacceptable) slop in the Yaw and Rotational axes though. Having a pair of hinges spaced as-far-apart-as-possible helps the Yaw performance when used in either Vertical or Horizontal orientation, But for best-match of mechanical-behaviour <> task, split-hinge systems best-deploy vertically. Happy modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS yes, hinges are primarily _alignment_ tools. How the modules are pressed/held together is (should be considered as) a seperate mechanism
Reply 0
Marc

My interlocking design

 

Yes I'm must admit these need some access to machined pieces and knowledge to solder iron.

But the design could be adapted to a more mechanical mounting using nuts

Anyway, the pins and the tube where they are inserted are made in a stuff which is stable for eternity, extremly rigid and able to be strong, and made two modules attached together as  strong if it's was only one.

I have used them to connect parts of my layout; in fact a kind of "TOMA" concept which has allowed me to move severals time the layout and rebuild it quiet quickly and whitout any play and disturbing in the continuity of two modules.

On the run whith my Maclau River RR in Nscale

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jTrackin

I use these brass alignment

ge_b9_1.jpeg 

I use these brass alignment pins (someone mentioned them before) and the reason I like them is because they very accurate, I power my track thru them and they slightly not aligned so with just a light touch they self lock in place. For me no latches or locks. 

 

 

 

James B

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Rasselmag

That is amazing James B

Because it is so simple in real terms :

 

Lutz

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