trimming the car

The Sylvan kit is a nice representation of the car with the end platforms having the ladder cage supports as thin as was possible to cast in resin.  Looking at my photos the ladder support structure was basically steel angle stock welded in place.  The brass has a nice thin cross section and is very solid.  I decided to cut off the resin sections and just use the brass to represent these supports.  The opening maybe slightly too wide but I think it captures the prototype well.  

CP tank hopper car end view of the cage support structure.  It has a very thin cross section

CN car with resin ladder support structures.  FYI I started building this particular car about 15 years ago.  My glacial pace is showing again.

The A end of the same car.  I have trimmed off the resin bits to get a better thin cross section.

Test fitting the etching.  I think it looks good and captures the thin lacy nature of the end cage well.  It still needs to be glued in place; I'll do that when I finish working on the brake piping on the B end of the car.

Marc Simpson

How are you getting the etchings?

Etchings backstory

A couple of years ago a few friends and I were talking about getting some etchings done for the various CN and CP tank hoppers as the biggest holdup was the end cages.  One guy had done up some drawings for CP 4 hatch tank hopper etchings and gave us access to them as a starting point to work from.  

My friend Al at Black Cat Decals has been branching out into other areas including metal etchings for caboose doors, freight car ladders, etc.  He stays with me when visiting the BC Lower Mainland, and I bent his ear a while back about doing end cage etchings for the Sylvan cars.  He was game to try something new.  

Al redid the original drawing and made other changes for the etching drawing to meet the requirements for his etcher (in Scotland) and he has since done the other drawings with me acting as reviewer and tester of the etchings to ensure they work as we want them to. We generally do a test run to catch any issues and revise the drawings as needed.  We've got a few other project ideas that we're working on for other stuff that he'll likely add to his product line. 

For now I'm the source for the end cage etchings given that these are pretty specialized items that don't have a broad appeal other than those who have the old kit runs.  I have been doing reissues of the Sylvan Model kits with the end cage etchings.  Clare at Sylvan has been open to redoing the freight car kits if I get him enough cars to meet his minimum numbers.     

Marc Simpson

Would those etchings work for other than Canadian hoppers?

Most models of covered hoppers available either have plastic cages & ladders that are way too thick, or else so delicate that they are hard to keep from bending or breaking.  If they would work on other covered hoppers even with slight modification, there might be a much larger market than you have thought of!

Other hopper ladders

Russ, you would have to measure the specific model you are thinking of to see if the height and rung spacing would work.  These etchings were done for a specific model of a specific unique prototype so I couldn't say for sure if they would fit or not.  These cars are smaller than most hoppers (these CN 8 hatch cars are 3000cf), so they might not be useable for the higher capacity cars. 

We are looking at replacement etchings for the True Line Trains Canadian slab sided hopper and the Rapido 3800cf cylindrical hopper car.  Both would benefit from finer ladder rungs.  The only issue is figuring out the way to do it without destroying the existing car.  We haven't looked at other car types at this time as our focus is on the hard to get stuff for our own use.  

Marc Simpson

brake piping underway

I'm using guesswork based on what few photos of the brake end of these cars I have on hand to do the brake piping.  I've got nothing better to go on, so until someone finds better photos I'm going with this.  0.015" wire does a good job of representing the pipes.  I'll continue with the rest of the piping when I have some time.  

Marc Simpson

One pipe closer

I've been dreading trying to figure out the piping arrangement on these cars.  It seems like most photos are of the A end of the car, and the few shots I have show a fairly complicated piping arrangement with multiple reservoirs, valves, etc.  I finally decided to just fudge it together in a somewhat logical manner.  The last piping for the reservoirs went together well and seems to be relatively close to my photos.  Now to do the air lines and brake lines along the sides of the car.  

Marc Simpson

Tank hopper?  Who knew!  It's

Tank hopper?  Who knew!  It's close to a cylindrical hopper, but a much different top.  

Mike.

Tank hopper

Mike, the tank hopper design was an intermediate between the slabside hoppers of the 1950's and the cylindrical hoppers of the late 1960's.  They were an overlooked car that didn't seem to get much interest from modellers or photographers at the time.  Some lasted to 2012 on CP, most were gone by the mid 1990's.

Marc Simpson

Underbody and end piping complete

    A morning of focus on bending and soldering wire has resulted in the completion of the piping for the car.  I think soldering the pipe supports to the wire will help with keeping things attached.  I soldered phosphor bronze wire to flat brass stock (0.015 and 0.020" wire and 0.015x0.042" flat stock).  I drilled holes in the underbody at the appropriate locations and used CA to fill the holes and attach the side piping.  Now to finish the ends and roofwalk.  Now where did the missing gate from one of the hopper bays go?

Marc Simpson

All over but the roofwalk

 Just need the roofwalk and it's done. I'll paint it without the roofwalk and apply the stainless steel roofwalk when it arrives.  Since the car will be silver the roofwalk won't need to be painted. 

Marc Simpson

Looking good!

Those ends certainly do look good, and it looks like they make the kit a whole lot easier to build.  I'm eagerly awaiting the ends for the CP aluminum hoppers, and then I hope to go on a building binge with my hopper kits.

It's interesting that these cars haven't had much attention from manufacturers.  Based on number series, CP had almost 1800 of them in the different styles.  I'm sure CN had a similar number.  A bunch of the photos of these cars in the Canadian Rail Car Pictorial volume for CP hoppers were taken in Dallas and Fort Worth, so they definitely traveled all over the continent.

Craig

So shiny

Yesterday was a snow day, and of course I left my work laptop's charger at the office so the computer died after a couple of hours.  What to do?  

Why paint of course.  I got a number of cars painted including my CN tank hopper.  Vallejo silver paint sprays beautifully, and I think I got enough coverage to not need a second coat.  Now for glosscoat and then decals.  

Marc Simpson

Starting to look like a proper tank hopper car

A quick bit of decalling has the tank hopper finally looking like it should.  

Marc Simpson

Waiting on a walkway

The CN 8 hatch tank hopper is complete... except for the walkway.  I've got an order of stainless steel walkways on the way that will do the job nicely for this car.  Now the waiting begins.  Whoever designed the CN paintscheme should be commended for using silver with red lettering.  It just pops when you see it.  In real life the silver got dull and weathered, but when they were new they must have been something to see.  

Marc Simpson

Now with the walkway

Got a batch of etchings from Black Cat Decals including a bunch of 50 etched walkways.  I trimmed one down to fit my CN tank hopper and I must say it looks rather good.  Quite happy with how it looks although the photos show me that I need to straighten some of the verticals.  A bit of silver paint on the corner roof top grabs and add the couplers, grab irons and cut lever and we'll be ready for some weathering.  

Marc Simpson

Another batch of tank hoppers

Last night I was "attending" the Virtual Railway Modellers Meet of BC and figured since I was sitting there I would do some cleaning up and basic work on my remaining tank hopper kits; 3 CN 8 hatch, 2 CN 4 hatch and one CP 4 hatch tank hoppers.  A bit of filing and flash removal while listening and watching the presentations yielded these 5 kits.  After the presentations I realized that the roof for the CP car was about 9 scale inches longer than the body (one of the issues with resin kits unfortunately) so I elected to remove a section from the middle of the roof.  I'll glue and putty the joint and that car will be ready to detail.  I also added weight to the cars before I attach the roofs.  We'll see if my venture into another mass build is a good idea or not.  

CP 4 hatch progress

Canadian Pacific rostered a fleet of steel 4 hatch tank hopper cars from the mid 1960s to the early 2000's. These were an intermediate design between the slabside covered hoppers of the 1950s and the cylindrical hoppers of the late 1960s to 1980s.

Sylvan Scale Models made this kit in the early 2000's but not many were completed due to the challenges in finishing the end cages. There were few photos of the brake piping arrangement as well.

I got custom etchings done by Black Cat Decals for the end cages to simplify the build. I had etchings done for the CP 4 hatch steel car, 8 hatch steel car and aluminum 8 hatch car along with the CN 4 hatch  and 8 hatch aluminum cars.  All were offered by Sylvan so having the etchings will make building them that much easier. 

I found one of the few remaining prototype CP 8 hatch steel cars in Saskatchewan last year and took tons of photos of the brake piping and am replicating it on the model.  The 4 and 8 hatch steel cars shared similar air line arrangements, at least from what I can determine from photos. 

The roof was about 9 scale inches too long – a common issue with resin cars due to the variability of the resins.  As the photo in the previous post shows, I cut the roof in the center and shortened it to fit.

I used spot putty on the joint and sanded it smooth.  One of the advantages of welded construction on these cars is that I don’t have to worry about dealing with rivets.

I put the end cages in place and glued the roof hatches on after cleaning them up.  I’ll move onto the underbody air lines next. 

Marc Simpson

today's progress

This morning's/afternoon's edition of trying to go blind brought to you by a Sylvan CP 4 hatch tank hopper.

I used 0.015" phosphor bronze wire with brass supports soldered on for strength.    

The CP cars had sill reinforcements added at some point so I used some 1x10 styrene to represent the reinforcements. 

This go around I added wire hatch rollers with 0.035" styrene rod to represent the latch the hatch opener (correct term = ?) has.

I decided to use some Kadee roofwalks to kitbash the roof walks. Next up will be the brake gear.  The kit walkway is perfectly useable but I spied these spare roof walks and decided to sacrifice them.  I think it looks pretty good.  I just need to install the brake wheel and chain and this car will be ready to paint.

Marc Simpson

bring on the clones

3 more 8 hatch CN aluminum hoppers are underway.  Mass volume brake piping is up next.

Marc Simpson

Clone progress

I've been working on and off on the three 8 hatch hopper cars and have the brake piping completed on the three.  Next will be the bottom hatches and then the end cages can get put in place.  

Marc Simpson

unloading hatches

This weekend I working on finishing the undersides of the cars.  Once the piping was completed I added the unloading hatches.  

These got unloading mechanisms added in the form of 0.015" wire with 0.035" styrene rod added on the ends.  And of course for whatever reason I couldn't locate one unloading hatch and ended up one short.  I cobbled together a hatch with styrene based on measuring the other hatches.  It isn't perfect but does the job.  I'll be adding the end cages next.

Marc Simpson

Two 8 hatch cars ready for paint, moving onto the 4 hatch cars

 2 8 hatch CN hoppers with my lone CP 4 hatch tank hopper between them, all waiting for the paint booth.  I'll add the roofwalks on the CN cars after they are painted as they will be silver and the roofwalk is stainless steel.

I've got two more 8 hatch cars ready for the paint shop, with the 3rd car meeting an unfortunate end when I tried to "fix" a crooked coupler box and ended up destroying the etching and end platform.  More on that < here

Prototype CN 4 hatch car in Flin Flon Manitoba (my main modelling focus) in 1992

I'll do the last couple of 4 hatch cars I have in the kit pile and paint a whole bunch of silver cars at once.  At least one of the 8 hatch cars will be painted in CN #11 grey as a few of these cars were painted in that scheme.  

The brake piping is different (of course) between the two car types and photos are difficult to come by of these cars, so I'm faking it.  I'm using an earlier build of a 4 hatch car as a guide along with a few somewhat grainy scans that show roughly what the piping arrangement is.  Given the difficulty in finding photo references I think my guesswork will have to be sufficient.  If anyone has better photos available I'm interested in seeing them.  

Marc Simpson

The few photos that I have

The few photos that I have with decent views of the CN 4 hatch aluminum tank hoppers show that the brake lines have L shaped supports which are somewhat different than what I have seen on other cars.  Using some 0.040" flat stock I guesstimated (it seems everything on these cars is guesstimated...) the support dimensions and made 4 supports per side as I see in the photos.  I attached these supports with CA in 0.040" drill holes and will bend brake lines to feed through them.  

One issue I noted is that the bottom edge of these two cars is pretty rough, likely due to how they were extracted from the molds.  I have used some thick CA and some careful filing to fill in the gaps along the bottome edge of the car sides.  This would have been easier before I assembled the cars.  Live and learn I guess.

Marc Simpson