Look to the ground..

Rule 107

Rule 107:  When a passenger train is receiving or discharging traffic on the side towards a station, a train or engine must not pass between it and the station unless proper safeguard are provided.

Passenger trains operate on a schedule.  Everybody knows where and when they will be at a station.  Lets say there are 6 trains per day that stop at the station.  They will be there for about 5 min each, that's 30 min a day.  That leaves 1410 min a day that the passenger trains will not be at the station.  The freight train working the station will arrange to be there to work the team track during some of those 1410 minutes.  First option is don't be there when the passenger train is making a station stop.  If that means meeting the passenger train at the next station, so be it.

If that doesn't work then the freight train must make arrangements to clear the platform and protect against movements while the passenger train is at the station.

Clearing the platform...

@Prof, no sign in the photo that they would have crossed the tracks.

@Dave, thanks. Just for clarity, so would moving the freight onto the mainline to clear the siding be a valid way to clear the platform?

Thanks,

-Ed

Freight on the main

Sort of, kinda, not really.  it depends if they platform has walkways out to the main, across the siding.

Technically the passenger train would be a first class train and the freight probably inferior, so the freight should be in the siding, unless otherwise provided.  Rules 86 and 87 (clearing a superior train) don't really care about the team track.

If the freight holds the main, technically, that would mean it would have to have flag protection out, meaning walking a brakeman out a mile ahead of the siding switch and stopping the passenger train to tell it to take the siding, then the brakeman rides back to the train on the passenger train.

Or.... there could be a general order or special instruction that passenger trains will take the track next to the station unless there is a scheduled meet at that station.

Or... The dispatcher and the crew have their heads in the game enough to communicate the siding-main conundrum far enough in advance that the dispatcher can issue a meet order :

Extra 1234 west hold main track and meet No 26 at Dora.

or 

No 26 take siding and meet Extra 1234 West at Dora.

(depending whether your railroad tells trains to clear or to hold the main track.)

Train frequency?

Ed, am I right in thinking that Hampton to Seabrook was never a high traffic corridor?  It could well be that the situation you’re wondering about just never happened in practice.

1410 min

That would be the 1410 other minutes scenario.  The freight isn't switching the team when the passenger trains are there or running.

Low volume

Definitely a low volume scenario.  There would not have been many passenger trains a day coming through on the route from Boston to Portland, and I doubt a freight would work that area more than once a day.  But I wanted to understand how it would be handled because on the layout it may be a higher potential than on the prototype.

I doubt that it would have been handled by walking a mile up the track because that would cross two short bridges through the edge of the salt marsh and be more than half way back to the prior stop.

Thanks,

-Ed

What I may do...

Based on all of this I am thinking tat for my operations I would use a timetable that keeps the two separate, and if something "happens" where the freight is off schedule enough to become a potential issue then get dispatch involved.  Maybe a freight would have to hold in Hampton (next location north) which does not have this problem. 

-Ed

Not sure if this helps

Interesting railroading conversation.   In my small knowledge of real railroading... through my study of my local short line, during the years of the transition era our passenger traffic actually did become far less important (and we know this phenomenon is across the board for all railroads).  Freight became king here and our passenger stations were rescheduled to one train a day down to the NYC link and then back up.   Often the gas car could handle all passenger work and once passenger traffic was ended (early 50's) the mail continued for a short time using the stations and a gas car once again carried any RPO work and light freight. 

  I had a photo of a freight train in front of a station in one of the boxes of photographs I was going to give away at a show......but never get around to doing...  it was not of my small railroad the FJ&G RR but there was a freight train that had been split apart in front of a station....so people could pass from the outside tracks to the platform like they were a second thought....  I did not think much of it at the time I saw it..  I figured there was some story to go with it that was long lost to time.  But now that I think about it, this might be something to do with this era and the changes all over.   There were late 1950's era cars in the background.    

   Now I can't image any of this happened often...    And it seems these situations would only have been of issue during whatever years the railroads were trying to adjust to the rise of the automobile and the ameliorating aeroplanes.     but fwiw, a break in a long freight for passengers access....could be prototypical if this is of concern.   The story for it can be anything you want to make up.      

Randy

day

Something no one has mentioned specifically - maybe the passenger trains only operate M-F?

Passenger trains would

Passenger trains would arrive/leave on the main, discharging passengers across the siding and to the station.

Local freight would be on the siding to "clear" the mainline and do the work, BUT...

...the freight crew would have to "protect" (clear) the station platform whenever passenger trains were scheduled into the station.

Not all that difficult to do in real life...

Proto vs model

J Albert is exactly correct.  The difference is that on the prototype sidings tended to be longer than locals, so there was more room to clear and on model railroads locals tend to be as long as the siding so its harder to "cut" the platform.  Easy and obvious on the prototype, not as easy on many model railroads.

Food for thought

For my next layout I'm looking at modeling a branchlne that had four scheduled trains. Normal practice was to run the two freight trains at night opposite the two scheduled passenger trains (really the same train doing a turn from the southern branch terminus). The northbound freight was scheduled to depart shortly after the southbound passenger trains scheduled arrival. In this way the entire branch would be clear of passenger traffic. 

Frieght extras did run during the day at some parts of the year, and I hadn't thought about how that would be handled. Extras on the branch were generally taking a block of cars to a specific place, so I suppose the dispatcher would run the extra well ahead of, or behind, the passenger train. Because no dispatcher was available at night on this branch, I don't think extras would, or could, operate then, either. 

the other 1410 minutes?

  Would passenger trains typically pull into the siding if no other trains were around,or would they make the passengers walk over the siding to get to the depot? I guess if the siding had paved passenger boarding or un-boarding locations then it wouldn't be a problem. Perhaps  the railroad might find it easier to just re-purpose the two tracks and swap the main to the track nearer the depot? .....DaveB

Siding length and other 1410 minutes

These last several replies give me interesting aspects to consider.

Because I am in N scale with a very large footprint, my train lengths actually will be shorter than the siding.  Average train length will probably be 20-25 cars.  This siding will hold between 35 and 40 cars depending which cars (siding is a bit over 150 inches long clear of the turnouts.) So clearing the loading point for the passenger trains would not be an issue, either to one side or for a longer freight by splitting the freight.

However, the photos I can find show no paving or boards crossing the siding in front of the station.  The very end of depot road next to the station does cross the tracks and was paved.  But I don't know if passengers would be expected to walk over the the road and cross there if the passenger train were on the mainline.

I am particularly curious regarding DaveB's question on whether the passenger train would use the siding unless a freight were actually present.  That would be my inclination as I do know some NH stations definitely brought the passenger trains off the mainline to the stations. 

So far, I am now leaning to these three practices:

1) Generally scheduling freights not to conflict with passenger trains in that location.

2) When no freight present, having the passenger train use the siding.

3) In the event of a freight being present requiring it to clear the loading area of the siding either to one side or by splitting the freight prior to arrival and until after departure of the passenger train and stopping working the location during that time.

But as more info comes to light, of course the above could be further adjusted.

Fascinating discussion to me.

Thanks,

-Ed

Dispatchers

The only way to operate an extra under the all the prototype rules I am familiar with is with a train order and the only way to operate opposing extra trains is with train orders.  There has to be a dispatcher to issue train orders.  Since this is a "branch" that implies it is part of a larger railroad system.  It is entirely possible that at "night"  the dispatching is handled by the "main" dispatcher.  I have seen that on territories with commuter trains, 2 dispatchers on 1st and 2nd, one dispatcher on 3rd.

By Federal hours of service law, at an office where there are two or more shifts of dispatchers, a dispatcher is limited to working 9 hours (8 hours work plus turnovers).  The same rules apply to train order operators.  If it is an office where only one shift of dispatchers work, they could work to the hours of service (12, 14, or 16 hours depending on era.)  I guess it depends on what is meant by "nights".  Is  it a one dispatcher office with a dispatcher working 12-16 hours and blanked 8-12 hours or is it a multiple shift office where the dispatcher is covered 2 shifts and blanked on the third?  If its just blanked 11p-7a maybe the freights mostly run at the end of first and into the 2nd shift.

Other than the obvious problem of not being able to change anything if there is a problem with any of the trains, blanking the dispatcher and running trains has other issues.  When the next shift dispatcher does show up, how does he know that the previous night's trains have arrived?  There is no record on the train sheet.  That would require the terminating points to be register stations and the extra to have orders to register with that order:

Order No 14 To Extra 1234 West at Dora

Extra 1234 West register at Anna on Order No 14.

Or it would require there to be train order operators round the clock that keep some sort of station records of movements and the rules allow the new dispatcher to call the operators and use those records of movements to fill out the train sheet.  Haven't personally seen that type of operation.

Or the branch is operated by some sort of general order operation where the first extra operates at will and any additional extras must make all movements protecting against the first extra.  The P&R had a "train on branch" signal that did that.  The first train set the signal to "branch occupied" operated at will, when set to occupied it superseded the superiority of trains and any other trains entering the branch while the signal was set to "branch occupied" had to flag against the other train.  When the first train left the branch, if there were no other trains on the branch, they would clear the train on branch signal.  Other than form G "run extra' order, no other orders would be required.

Or the branch is operated entirely under yard limits and no movement train orders are issued.  No other orders would be required.

Using the siding

The rules regulate who can use the main, anybody can use the siding anytime they want (unless its a controlled siding, such as in CTC).

There is nothing stopping the passenger train from using the siding.  The question is who gets to use the main.

GO or SI

The concern of the railroad is the passengers, not the local getting its work done.  If there is no walkway out to the main and the passenger have to board off the siding, the railroad could issue the following general order or special instruction:

At Anna, First Class (or passenger) trains will use the siding.

Done.

All the First Class/passenger trains use the siding and trains meeting them can use the main track.  Easy peasy.

Downside :   If there are a lot of scheduled trains that can create issues between meets on other trains.  And it actually delays the local more.  If the local uses the main then it HAS to wait for the passenger train to start doing its work.  Otherwise the passenger train shows up and the rear of the local is on the main and the head end is on the siding switching, blocking everything.

One other thing

Ed, I don’t think this does anything to answer your question but thought it worth mentioning for your operating pleasure. I read in a book written by a B&M employee that when a passenger train was making a station stop no other trains were allowed to run past it. The NYS&W and I imagine other lines had the same rule. This was in regard to double track and was a safety measure for passengers, but I’d imagine a passenger train standing on a siding might have a similar restriction, assuming it was making a station stop. Be worth checking out.

Barry P

Rule 107

That's a variation of the "Rule 107" I mentioned previously.  It can vary from railroad to railroad.  A lot of it depends on whether or not the railroad has barriers between the tracks.  I commuted on the former PRR and they had fences between the tracks near the station and the inside tracks of a 4 track main.  I can attest that freights regularly passed stations while there were passenger trains stopped at the station.  On the other had on other railroads, it was common to stop traffic from passing a passenger train stopped at a station.

I checked 4 rule books from the 1940's to the 1970's and all had the prohibition on passing between a standing passenger train and the station, but did not prohibit a train from passing a standing passenger train.  The "all stop" version may be more recent or not as widely used.

Differences between eras

Hi,

in my corner of Europe there have been changes over the years...

When the railroads were built, some 100 years ago, platforms on minor stations were just a fortified border towards the track with some packed gravel filled in behind. If there were platforms on two adjacent tracks, the track spacing was widened somewhat, then there was a narrow platform built between the tracks and at one place there was some gravel used on the near track to provide access to the far platform. Very often the far platform did not even have the fortified border towards the near track.

(with "fortified" mostly being a few ties held in place by some old rail driven into the ground)

Passenger safety was ensured by the conductor and station personnel. Even today some of these old platforms exist, however in most cases the gravel has been paved over with asphalt.

There was a time when platforms were generally better, however it was possible to build an extension or a complete platform out of wooden planks. These were mostly used short-term, but some lasted for many years. I remember a lot of wooden platforms and access ramps after the German re-unification, back in 1990...

Today it seems, not even the wooden platforms are possible. Even small stops have to have a platform that costs millions in construction. They have to be concrete-framed, paved, accessible, lighted, equipped with (dysfunctional) displays and what-not... Oh, and they have to be certified by a gazillion of obscure certifiers... Crossing one track to reach the other platform is absolutely not possible on newly constructed platforms, there has to be a passenger tunnel...

Similarly, there used to be trains with both passenger and freight wagons. Not anymore.

So, as for your question, I assume your era is pre-Amtrak. Back then the practical solution was usually chosen, whereas now the adherence to some barely-understood regulation is more important... I would assume that the local would have to be "in the clear" for the passenger train, anyway, which means no switching while the passenger train is approaching the station and sitting in the station. I would also assume that there was a special instruction (or some non-formalized understanding) for the passenger train to stop at the station (taking the siding), especially on low-volume lines.

My observation and opinion might or might not apply to your different setting

Have fun!

Stop for the passengers

One of my favorite rail fanning spots is at the wye in Ayer, MA.  There’s an MBTA station on the double track mainline, but there is also a lot of freight activity right there - the other two legs of the wye branch off the south side main either side of the passenger station and connect to the Hill yard, and there are a number of industries around.  Freight moves involving either main track always pause when there’s a passenger train expected soon or in the station.  There’s no fence between the two tracks at this location.

Back when the Bow NH power plant was still getting trains of coal that could lead to some neat contrasts - the 6 car MBTA train with a single GP40MAC that quietly glides away and is going pretty fast before it disappears around the bend, and then the loaded coal train with 5 or 6 GP/SD40-2’s that doesn’t visibly move at all until the power is notched up 4 or more and then just barely starts to creep forward.

2010 GCOR

Rule 6.30 in the 2010 GCOR covers receiving or discharging passengers.  It more or less reads the same as the 1948 rule 107 I reviewed.  The 2003 NORAC rules also discuss the situation where there is an intervening track between the passenger train and the station. Once again, basically a more wordy version of Rule 107 covering things in more detail.  Nothing in any of the rule books requires a stop on adjacent tracks not between the train and the station.

That leads me to believe stopping trains passing by is either a general order, special instruction, a "policy" or just "old Spanish custom".

The mechanics of stopping a train on the adjacent track would involve some sort of notification of the freight train crew.  One way would be the passenger train crew in some way announcing that they are stopping at a station.  If I am a freight train going 50 mph on the "other main", I'm going to have to start slowing down a couple miles before I get to the station, that means the passenger train will have to announce they are going to be at the station a couple miles before they get to the station to  give the freight a chance to stop. The other way would be the dispatcher would have to keep a rolling red block on the other main track (assuming CTC) to force the train to stop.  If its only a couple trains a day, that's not to bad.  The MP/UP did something like that at Washington, MO, IIRC with Amtrak.  However that was a case of Amtrak being on one track and the station on the other (passing between, not passing by).

It would be interesting to find out what actually prohibits a passing by train from moving.  So far it doesn't appear to be in the rules themselves.

What stops freight from moving

In the case of the Ayer MA station (https://goo.gl/maps/jsUNdGUU9KWSYLeRA) there are control points within half a mile or a mile on either side of the station, I think the dispatcher makes sure to hold approaching trains there.  There's also a signal coming out the east leg of the wye that connects to the main, so the dispatcher can control that directly too.  Other movements that may be going on within the block between the two control points are controlled via something like form D, also from the dispatcher of course.

But I don't know what rule or convention might be requiring them to do that.  Somewhere I have some probably 20 year old timetables for the area, I'll see if I can dig those out and find anything relevant.