FYI: Sometimes rigid foam warps or sags

I like to see people trying new methods. I experiment a lot and some stuff works, some not.

You simply set the foam down.  If it has remained flat for more than a year, then you are probably OK.

My experience, I have rigid foam pieces laying around and some have warped and stayed that way.  They probably sagged because I did not store it flat.  It warped the long way, like if you started to roll it into a 4 ft long tube shape.  I cut a 2x4 ft piece from a warped section and tried to glue it to flat plywood and was not too successful, it really wanted to stay warped.  I resorted to screwing it down to the plywood.

Foamboard fascia may or may not be enough.   A thin hardboard (Masonite) fascia would be stiffer.  Or you could discover it is stable enough over time and does not need more support.  

I'm Lurking...

..and reading everything you post.  Keep on going!

Let me address the foam

Let me address the foam board. As of today, and it's been a couple months. The 3 pieces of foam board making a 24' layout. I had noticed some warp. Not much. All I've done so far is to caulk them together with a bead at the top of the ends of each. I let them sit with a clamp just long enough to feel safe. Removed the clamps. Still slight warp. But when rolling a car,/some better than others, of course, the car rolls nicely. Never too far. It seems to be not too bad. What I intend to do is "when I'm ready" to caulk the foam to the metal brackets. Those brackets are 16" on center. An exception is where it crosses a window which is 32". I found some construction angles about 2"x2" and they rest between the foam and the brackets. They tend to level the situation. So, sometime in the near future, the caulking will take place.  I have all wiring and such on top of the foam. So, I can lift the foam carefully and place caulk on the brackets. Looks like it's harder than it might turn out to be. I've done similar in lifting the foam to maneuver the layout. I hope this answers one question. More to follow.

As for fascia. I do have a

As for fascia. I do have a bunch of foam already painted and ready to install. Again, caulk to the angle board that is only holding the foam level. If necessary, I can caulk those angles. i.e. Use caulk to hold everything in place. If that fascia proves to be a bad decision, I can always replace it. FYI the caulk I use is DAP Alex. I bought some new to experiment with and the other day, while scrouging around, found 5 more tubes. So I have enough caulk to do anything I want. This caulk is proving to be the greatest thing since apple pie. I holds really well and when I need to pry it up, a putty knife lifts it right up. No mess. No fuss. Simply re-place whatever and re-caulk. I've done this with track, roadbed and such. Heck, I even used this caulk to hold my Zephyr in place on cardboard sitting under the layout. Hasn't hurt the Z and so far, is satisfactory. Crude but effective. More later.

A gimmick for turnout throw

I saw on youbube where a guy made a turnout control with a wire in a tube from the turnout to the front layout edge. My track and wiring are all on top, so I thought, why not? I played with the idea of metal tube, then plastic stir sticks. And found a wire/stranded with insulation, that's pretty stiff. Some flexibility. So I cut it a little long, stripped the end of the wire about 1/8". Managed to get that wire end into the little hole in the throw bar. Very tight fit. Bent it under the throw bar so it won't pull out. and ran that wire to the front edge of the layout. Same was how I did the wiring. Easy to see, easy to maintain. Cut the wire so that it sticks our just right and put a wire nut on the end for a handle. It works. When needed on track beyond other track, carefully cut a groove in the roadbed under the foreground track and ran it through to the far track, where I repeated the connection. These seem to work pretty well without a tube. What little flex is in the wire is not enough to cause trouble. Just takes a more gentle touch to move it through the roadbed. There is one where I had to go under two tracks to reach a third. Again, no real trouble. Now for the FYI. I do take pictures, and they all require editing/fine tuning to get proper pose. And someday soon, hope to be able to post here. Cheers for today.

I am a fan of xps, but I

I am a fan of xps, but I would use steel wall studs to support it. This would save you from a lot of the brackets. Of course it depends on the wall construction. Another option, if your shelf runs from wall to the wall,  is to support the studs at the ends with legs. 
For the fascia I would choose something harder like homasote. It can be fastened on the front stud and protect the foam edge.
You can find a lot of about steel studs in MRH forum.
Also there are design tools
https://www.itools.clarkdietrich.com/structural_stud.php

Weight

Thanks Vasilis. I appreciate your thought. Steel or metal is not light. Foam is. The metal brackets are screwed with 2.25" sheet wall screws; advised by a carpenter that builds shelves for books, etc. And this shelf is only 12" deep. My goal is light weight. I can lift this 24' foam shelf with roadbed and track and a few minor things laying on top/me at the joint where left board is connected to the middle board and another person at the other joint. It is workable. It is done. The only thing I may do to it in the future is to caulk the foam to the brackets. The whole thing is sturdy. Plus, when you bump into it, the foam don't hurt. So foam for fascia is what I will try. Masonite hurts the head or shoulder. Also, I do not plan on anything attached to the fascia. It's for appearance only. There should never be any elbows on it, it's at my arm pit height. And foam is very forgiving when you do bump it. I have yet to damage it in such a way as to be bad or have to replace any. The little dents on the edge will be hidden by fascia. The wiring is all on top, fastened with plastic clips and will be hidden by the fascia/and scenery. As will the turnout throws. They will be visible, but not "ready to jump out at you". You'll have to look for them. I am really thinking and working outside the box. Trying to use anything light, and yet sturdy. It's a flat switching layout for fun.

...sad you didn't find the

...sad you didn't find the time to take a look to what i suggested. Anyway, i hope you will not bump into any of the brackets, you will forgiven the xps when you will find that is not a good bumper and you will not blame it. Have fan and luck.

What is done, is done?

OK Vasilis: I admit I did not look at your suggestion of metal. I had read previously about metal and wood/and the argument for and against plywood, etc. Also aluminum.

But: My original intent was light weight. With the possibility of having to move the layout. Also, with a 12" deep foam, there is no sag or warp from wall to front edge. The 8' boards were all just sitting on those brackets for several weeks as I worked on one board, I chose the left board as a start. Original intent was to complete the board with scenery, etc. That was impractical. I needed to get the full 24 feet done before wiring. So, I went ahead and put roadbed, etc. on the other two boards. Get them all aligned and watched for warping. So that's what is done. I see no reason to re-start or re-build at this stage. I am open minded enough to realize that if I have done something that isn't practical in the long run, I will easily tear it up and start over. Same with other "out of the box" ideas I have. So, other than metal brackets & the rail, there is NO metal or wood on the layout. Roadbed is made from foam. Track is PECO with plastic ties. The caulk works perfectly holding all together. As for any warp in the board(s), that will be taken care of when I get around to caulking them to the brackets.

So your idea and suggestions are well taken. And I appreciate you taking the time to write this.

Finally, the brackets don't quite reach exactly to the front edge, they end about 1/2" from it. And it's very unlikely I'll be coming up from below that close to the wall. In fact, every time I've bumped into the foam it was on the front edge only. And that front edge is now protected by those hard paper construction angles I have. When I get a good picture and can post it, you will see all this.

My intention was not to

My intention was not to change your mind. You said hadn't much responses-comments. So i posted a comment. My second reaction was in the same spirit. Everything from steel it isn't heavy or such as heavy so that it makes unusable. You can pick up a stainless knife or fork. The studs used in dry wall framing are the same, they are lightweight. You said that the brackets was a violation, so i looked for a stud adequate for a span of 24' (I like spans) to be supported with legs. The calc tool is for walls so the self weight of the studs is not taken to the account. With some easy calcs i found a stud with height 5.5'' (the foam can be inbetween and some cross beams needed for the buckling) and total weight 44 lbs. I think is lightweight.  You could combine 3 brackets and 2x12' spans and use studs shorter in height and more lightweight. Maybe in the future you will find this option usefull.

Still it isn't clear to me, i can't find it, how many brackets you use or better what is the distance between them. A note, the "sagging", the deflection depends on the span between the supports (brackets). Th e additional deflection of the brackets makes it more visible at the front and maybe this is the reason of the missunderstanding about the real deflection of the deck.

Thinking out of the box is marvellous, but you have to be aware that the box dimensions are defined by you and are based on your view-understanding of what is the prevailing point of view and where are the limits of it.
Have fun. :> )

Pictures?

Here's a picture I took earlier today. Not edited. Just resized to post. So, not the best quality.

It shows how the feeders come from the track to the front edge. I also shows the turnout throw rod. That yellow wire nut is one. The other in the foreground has no wire nut yet. Please forgive my "thinking outside the box". I had worries about handling heavy buss wire. So I found someone who could give me an alternative. I had tons of AWG 20 wire, so I connected single wires to each feeder and run them all along the front of the layout to the command station:

This is crude, but functions for now until I figure out better. You can see how those wires all come to the terminal bars and then to the Zephyr. The bulb on the left is my short detector warning. Visible from anywhere along the layout. The two alligator clips on the right are just hanging there and are the wires for the programming track, not attached yet. Please also note that the station is under the layout. The hallway aisle I'm standing in is 20.5" wide and there's not a lot of room, so the station is out of the way. An additional note is that you can see the angle post that I have on the front and back of each foam to help keep it straight and level. Of course, as of now, it's not level because the foam has slight warp and is not caulked to the brackets. Brackets not visible, but will be in additional pictures to come. Now that I know how to post them. But keep in mind, these two pictures are not edited so the colors are slightly off. And I'm not sure how to fix that. OK? Enough for now.

warp

I miss spoke about sagging. I meant warping. When the 8'x12"x2" boards were set on the floor, I was advised to stand them on end. After a few days I noticed some warp. So I hurried up on installing some brackets. The brackets are 16" apart, screwed into studs (I used a stud finder) so the first 8' board had 7 brackets. I placed all boards on those first one. (I have 4 boards, and only need 3 for the 24' space I have. The last board is retained for possible scenery. As I put up more brackets, I was able to move boards from one stack to two. And finally, all 3. With that extra board just sitting on top of ??. I worked on the one board, planned as the left end. The left is over the PC etc. so was harder to reach. (I thought). As I got roadbed and track for the main lines on that left board, I discovered I needed to get the other boards up and connected for wiring. My original intent was to finish one board up to scenery, etc. before working on the others. That changed. So I proceeded to get all 3 boards loosely laid out on the brackets with a 24' main track from the far left edge to the far right edge. NOW. The boards had developed some slight warp. Just enough to cause some freely wheeling cars to roll. Not too bad. But I could take a car at one end and give it a good push and it would roll all 24'. Not because of any slant. The warp only caused the car to slow a bit and speed up a bit. Nothing real serious. So, that's where I'm at with the boards just resting on the brackets. Where the boards connect edge to edge, I held them in place with clamps until the roadbed and track being caulked down - dried a good 24 hours. Then, with the clamps removed, the track is relatively level. Again, enough to push that car at one end and run like crazy down to the other end to catch it.I hope this clarifies my situation. I can only emphasize that caulk is great. I use DAP Alex, under $3 a tube and it holds all sorts of stuff. Roadbed, track, and anything I want. It is extremely easy to pry up and make corrections. No mess, no fuss. Finally, to assist in keeping the foam as level as possible, I have some free construction angles of a very stiff cardboard about 2" by 2" by various lengths. They sit under the front and rear edge of the foam keeping it fairly level. So that any warp is minimal. And I'm sure that when I finally get around to caulking those boards to the brackets that they will be level. I do know that when caulking, to clamp together for 24 hours. That way, the caulk has cured enough to hold good. The caulk is "clear" and when applied is white. After 24 hours, it does clear and the areas where I had done weeks ago, you can't tell where there's any caulk. This should clear up any miss understanding. Pictures to come.

Last year

Here's a picture I found of what I had started last year. I posted this on another topic as a suggestion. It is what I started doing and have simply added on.to,

Since that time, I have caulked roadbed and track on. The wiring is on top. And the previous pictures show some of that. But the whole thing is simple. Only using caulk to hold things together. Obviously things must be clamped for the caulk to cure. The slight warp of the foam will be eliminated when I get around to caulking the foam to the metal brackets. I just realized, that slight difference between the foam and the bracket in the picture was fixed when I used another board. All 3 boards have that slight warp, but none affect the running of trains. The cars do roll a little, but not enough to hinder my fun. They stay pretty much where I put them. And to show how I changed the control panel.

I moved the terminal blocks to underneath. Left a train on the front track to show how nicely they look. As I stated: I am not a pro photographer, and the camera was on an angle and I don't know how to correct colors yet. I do not use a flash, allowing the DSLR to do it's own magic - which include the off color. The intent here is to show "what I did" and what can be done. Crude, but effective. That short detector bulb is nice, visible from anywhere.

I use caulk all the time

I use brown colored caulk to hold down track to the roadbed, and roadbed to the sub-structure.  It works well, and the brown color is not noticeable through the ties.  I use the same caulk to fasten the cork roadbed to the rigid foam.  You use thin foamboard instead of cork and wood instead of rigid foam sub-structure - same thing.

The pictures show you are making good progress.  Where did you get the N6 caboose?  I have only found that model in brass and Model Power plastic.

Cabin

Thanks Doug! Yes. That cabin is indeed a metal one. ALCo models purchased in the dark ages, 1968 for $13.95. Because it's metal, I had to use plastic couplers. Intermountain. Don't remember their cost, but that cabin as well as the vast majority of my cars, etc. are all stored in boxes. When i took that one out, one coupler was crushed. I replaced it..And that was the last plastic coupler I had on hand. I included those 3 items in the picture just to show how nice things look when the couplers line up and they fit nicely in the picture. I just looked at the trucks. Appear to be cheap plastic wheels. I will replace them with metal wheels before long. ?? May even find really nice PRR cabin trucks to put on. I have another N6 and 3 N5's, all metal by AlCo, all bought 1967-68 for around $14. So having to spend a penny more for trucks isn't a bank breaker. To update: I haven't been doing too much lately on the layout. I had a PECO turnout lose it's little spring that snaps the points in place and holds them. So that turnout just flops. I did what any modeler would do and tried to fix it. You guessed. That spring and it's holder went "sproing" and flew into the air, where it landed, I know not where! I've been looking through a box or two and found some kits. Unbuilt. And some RTR hoppers. So the layout now has 6 hopper cars, 2 box, the 5 cabins and 2 engines. I still haven't gotten around to working on the steamer. The diesel runs fine. That, FYI is a Proto 1000 FM C Liner. Bought in 2000 for $45, with a DH123 / $20 and that's that. Runs like a dream. Does have Kadee 5's. When I can, and the model won't short out, I use ONLY K5's. Those plastic ones do break. That's if for today.

I did some experimenting with

Another question

I've run into a situation that is not making sense to me. I have the Athearn USRA Mike with the cheap DSD150LC decoder from Soundtraxx. Not that that makes any difference. But: It don't like to run. Acts like dirty track or dirty wheels, etc. As we all know DCC requires cleanliness. I cleaned the track and wheels. And it still don't like to run. My diseasal is a Proto 1000 C Liner with a cheap DH123 from Digitrax and it runs fine. This leads me to believe that diseasals run better than steamers. ??? What else should I look for? Or try? (To be honest, I really didn't clean the steamers drivers.) I ran the tender over a paper towel with alcohol/like you do cars. There was NO gunk or stuff off those wheels. They were shiny to start with and are the same now. But the drivers are shiny too. Do I shoved the drivers over the paper/alcohol and again, no residue. And, the drivers are not have any shinier where I rubbed them along the track. So I sincerely doubt the wheels are really to blame. What else can it be?

Connection Between Tender and Engine?

Morgan:

Is power passing from the tender to the cab?

How to check?

Chuck. As far as I can tell, yes. The cable has been attached since the day I bought it. Well, almost. But when I take the engine off the running track and put it on the programming track and vice versa, I don't disconnect. I keep the engine and tender connected. SO? How can I check? It has been advised to never tug those wires. And the connector is inside the tender, barely visible. I can't reach it with fingers, and I can touch it and push and it seems OK.

"it don't like to run"

Morgan:

When you say "it don't like to run," do you mean it won't move at all, runs slowly, or stutters as it tries to run?  I may have tried to answer a different problem than you actually have, as I maybe didn't understand your problem.

No tender pick up

The Athearn mike does not pick up power from its it's tender.  The drivers are the only pick ups.  There might be some gunk on the wipers that rub on the backside of the driver tires.

Scott Chatfield

How to explain?

When I put the loco on the track, and turn on the Zephyr, the loco starts rumbling/chuffing? Then It starts to slowly move. (I have the CV's set for slow. When it does accelerate, it takes a few minutes to get to speed. Same with decelerating. CV 3&4 set at 16, CV 5 = 192, CV 6 = 86. A very nice speed.) As it does, it stutters - shuts down and restarts. runs a bit/maybe 3-4 inches and stutters again. And then, it may run for 3-4 feet looking good, chuffing along like nothings wrong. Suddenly stutters. Stops and restarts like it's got a short? But there is no short indicated. I have a short detector auto light bulb that glows when there is a short. Works great. Put a quarter on the track and that bulb lights up. And also works really well when there is any kind of short. So, what I'm getting at is that the engine is NOT shorting. It just acts weird/to me. This all is the same whether the loco is solo, with a cabin or with cars. Is this clear?

More info.

The response above was to Chuck, 6/22. I didn't see this one from you, Scott. I have to be honest and admit to my being "not very bright". Yes, the tender does nothing - but hold the decoder. So I took the engine, laid it upside down and "are you ready". With glasses, OptiVisor and the jewelers eye loop, I was finally able to see what look like little wipers on the drivers. I then with a toothbrush and alcohol, wiped/rubbed the inside of the drivers, Now it seems to run better, but still stuttering. But since it's better, that may be the solution. Now how to clean them better? I would like to use acetone, but there's way too much plastic on that engine. So alcohol is it. I do have some electronic cleaners and may try them. I've said before, and will repeat. I do not like lubricants - for electrical contact. Yes, gears need lubricant. And LaBelle makes excellent products. But these little wipers look fragile. So I will not attempt Q-tips or toothpicks. The only thing that makes sense to me is spray liquid. Or as I said, a toothbrush and liquid. I'll be attempting these ideas and will post tomorrow?

Update

I have a lot of trouble with vision. Even with a jewelers eye loop, I can barely see the inside of the driver. The plate next to it is plastic, so I hesitate to use acetone to clean. So I used alcohol and a toothbrush. It looked shiny to me, so I then wiped the rails with acetone, my favorite cleaner. And then patted some graphite on the track and ran a car back and forth to spread the graphite. Put the loco on the track, turned on power and it moved. Better than before. And it ran for 3-4 feet before stalling. It just stops dead. After a second or two, it sputters back to life and slowly starts up again. About the time it gets up to speed (I set the speed at #3 on the Zephyr), it then stops again. After a second or two, restarts. Runs a foot or so, and stops. And keeps this up. Even after I've carefully cleaned and wiped graphite on the track. So I then took it to the work table, turned it upside down and with the eye loop, carefully looked. See NOTHING different. Drivers are shiny. So I took some silicone lubricant/2.2 on Joe's table, and with a toothpick placed it on the inside of the drivers. This time, on the track, it ran again - a little better. But it still stops dead, sits for second, restarts with a sputter and slowly creeps. And all of a sudden, stops. This has been going on for weeks now, and I still don't know what to do. If there's a wire loose inside the loco, I would sure hate to have to diss/un/assemple the loco. Is there a good samaritan living near the DFW/TX that might be enticed to help?