P.S. Layout and Panel Pro

Is what I’ve drawn on a notepad how it would be drawn in JMRI?

If you isolate through the

If you isolate through the rails where I have marked in red I do not think you will need more than one reverser.

it looks like you are planning to have the stooge loop roads able to be isolated? If so the must be fed from the same reverser the powers the lard ladders etc. To isolate these tracks should only require one rail insulated.

Hi Neil,

I think that Graeme is on the right track but the simpler way is below.  I have one that is almost identical.  I use a DCC Specialties PSX-AR because it gives me an extra circuit breaker and also their Wabbit and a Tortoise switch machine to automatically throw the switch on the return.  It’s very slick.  Read the Wabbit installation instructions carefully and go for it!

Nick

I Know Nothing

Neil, I know nothing about auto reverses. My DC layout of the 1970s had one reverse loop with a DPDT. So, I am a no understanding person.  What if one loco is traversing one loop and there is a loco “parked” on each or some of the other loops? How does one auto reverser handle that such that the circuits aren’t constantly flipping on those other locos?  

@steve... that analysis overcomplicates things

Be encouraged... your DC experience is really quite an asset. 

Think of an AR as an electronic DPDT.... that's how it functions.

So Niel's track plan with insulated  loops would do the job AS LONG AS locos are parked safely within the track breaks... One entering loco may 'toss' the polarity...once.  And parked locos that are powered might see a momentary interruption.

A further benefit may be had by shutting the loops off with locos within.

@Niel... I cant seem to shoot an email to you...    and will be in your neighborhood next week! (looking forward to it!)    Could you please contact me   -  see my profile for phone - at your convenience.  Would love to update my Island notes!

PSX-AR

Nick & Graeme - Steve asked exactly what I was wondering. Are trains in the loop all going to go “forward” when the AR “flips”? I thought DCC would allow this to happen but wasn’t sure.

The Wabbit is almost too good to be true! Wow. I have a couple NCE Switch-it’s and a Switch-8 that I had intended to use but wow. Even the PSX-AR has a built in Wabbit (so it seems). Thanks. 

Peter - Thanks. I look forward to meeting you!

Reverser

Would isolating one of the approach tracks to the loop be a good idea?

This isolates the flipping of the polarity to a single section of track.

Eugene

Two trains

It is entirely possible for two trains to cross reverse loop boundaries at the same time.  A train from A could be going to or from trk 4 while a train from B could be going to or from trk 1.

Other than that risk, I agree with the proposed reversing section as the conventional choice. 

The alternative would be the section from the crossover to the A-B route switch in the top track.  That would be a track which only one train can enter at a time, however its probably short enough that a single train could be crossing both boundaries at the same time.

Hi Neil

It isn’t intuitive.  The locomotives keep going the same way the are told to or were told to last.  The only way to know that the “flip” has happened is the blinking light on the PSX-AR goes to steady from blinking or blinking to steady.  Electrical magic......

Nick

You can flip track polarity under a DCC loco

Changing my Answer

I don't want that little reverser circuit to "flip out" because of metal wheels.

So either

OR 

Based on Maximum train length.

If the loop is attached to the reversing circuit then there could be X trains parked there, attaching the reversing circuit to the approach track eliminates that variable and the loads.

Choosing a longer track section eliminates continuous flipping of the circuit as the train's metal wheels cross the gapped sections of track.

Eugene

No module

Hi,

In reality you do not need any reverse loop module.

Your schema is like this one ( source):

My one is for one track, you have two parallel tracks on left hand side, but both turnouts must be in same position. Then you can understand that one second most left/up as controlling. You do not insulate frog, but keep switching all "balloon" together with it (yellow line) and same principle, but opposite wire the green line. You have to insulate little bit front of second (dependent) turnout and that is all. It will work automatically without any module and without any software.

Be careful, that for occupancy detectors inside "balloon" they have to get power from green/yellow wires instead from red/black.

(No subject)

Well, prior to seeing Vasilis' idea

I came up with this.   Expand the max train length by using existing rails cuts. 

As long as the staging ladder is in use, it can only be used One Way... so all of it (all 4 leads) up to the cut rails can be in the same power block.

And, now that I saw Vasilis' idea, I need to consider.... he has a simpler scheme, and looks worthy of testing!

Continuous Reverse

With one crossover, a train can be reversed but must be backed out to reverse again, adding an additional crossover gives a continuous reversing option.

Eugene

Options

Thanks everyone! I ordered a PSX-AR and will use my NCE switch-8 for the other turnouts for train routing. 

Full disclosure is below. Gene, the crossover is really there but further back as part of the passing siding. The location you note would need to be. Pair of curvered switches so may be more a pain that I’d like to address. Trains coming off the branch would seldom go on toward Haleiwa (staging) so the alternate route would allow continuous running without any brain power :- ). 

The wye will get my dual frog juicer to flip polarity on the branch since that line will always be much longer than my longest train. 

Gaps

Of course after I posted the above in black and white it became clear that you can’t see the colored blocks. Peter’s idea of using the existing siding blocks with insulators on both rails (staggered as Joe recommends) really makes more sense. Gapping one rail elsewhere will allow block detection and signaling.

Removing the gap past the crossover is a great idea. That way the whole block to the staging tracks will display a stop signal until a train leave the loop or, if traveling the same direction toward Honolulu, a train can follow when the approach track is clear. 

Two Reversing loops

The mystery unfolds.

Some reason I was thinking loop. So A in the below connects to B as a loop making the second reversing loop.

Still easily handled by one auto reversing unit. 

In this case the OR diagram as previously shown takes on new meaning and ensures that the second reversing loop is looked after.

Eugene

even with the 2nd loop and

even with the 2nd loop and the wye it can be solved (automatically) without a reverser, although not as in my first sketch.

@Vasilis

A DPDT connected to the isolated loop track to reverse the power with the slider connected to the throw of the turnout?

Eugene

@Eugene

Reverser Section

Gene:

Thanks.  I imagine that the electronics will take a week or longer to get out here in the middle of nowhere. The idea of using the main line for the reverser section actually has a lot of appeal. I would extend the block to the staging track where the gaps are shown though. That way it could be used as part of a detection circuit as well so signals would be displayed correctly on the visible portion of the layout rather than have to detect this and a short lead section to the staging tracks themselves. Does that make sense?

Yes that makes sense, moving

Yes that makes sense, moving the gap(s) to include the yard ladder for block detection.

It is interesting how changing the placement of the automatic reversing circuit, in this plan, can reduce the wiring challenge and the number of circuits necessary.

The Pine Spur Chronicle

Definitely see the A track and the wye but not seeing the turnout for the B track in the above blog. 

Eugene