Go DCC

I would make the investment in time and money and go with DCC...in the long run you will be glad you did. I am just now converting to DCC myself with my newest layout...and I am not too bright when it comes to electronics. So if I can do it, pretty sure just about anyone can.

Hold-up....

Dear PackNRat,

Can we walk thru this slowly, in order of appearance?

Sounds like a good plan. There's no rush, and there are plenty of Solid, Reliable, and Factually Accurate resources online to work with... 
(There's also a lot of scare-mongering and Bad-DCC-Science-dressed-up-as-fact, 
but with some careful investigation it's usually quite easy to distinguish between them)

OK, let's clear something up. You do _NOT_ "need a computer" to run DCC trains.
You will need _something_, but it does _NOT_ need to have a Keyboard + Mouse + Screen.

I feel like it needs saying here, most commercial DCC systems are "turnkey",
literally "a black-box command-station" which connects to the Mains Power and Track,
and (at least) one "throttle" which has the speed-knob/direction-switch/etc that you actually do the "driving" with...

To take a common example, the NCE PowerCab "starter system" has a "quickstart" guide which is less-than 1x foolscape page long, 6-steps end-to-end, and you're up-and-running...

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200491879-Power-Cab-Quick-Start

(I'm not saying "NCE is the only option", but as an example,
a well-designed and engineered starter DCC system is quite simple and "plug-n-play")

OK, this is important and relevant. Ready-to-Run DCC locos make "going DCC" quite easy.
If you are a literal "rank newcomer" to DCC, then tackling DCC-decoder installs in older "not DCC-ready" locos can be a big hurdle to take on....

...but you do NOT need to take it on as a _first_step_!
(Those "Ready-to-Run DCC" locos give you a "free pass" on that task, at least for a little while)

BTW, so we're all on the same page:
- what scale/gauge are we talking?
- what are the "DCC-equipped" locos in your roster?
- what are the "analog DC only" locos? (how old are they? Are they labelled as "DCC Ready"?)

Hmm, a bit to unpack here:

- As far as "getting started, with some DCC-equipped locos", a decent Starter system is pretty-well equipped to handle _a_bit_ of "newcomer electrical abuse"...

...but you _will_ need to be willing to _learn_a_little_ about wires and electrical to "get beyond the absolute basics"...

...I would also caution that until you're willing to do that "stepping up" RE electrical things,
_avoid_ doing DCC decoder installs, esp on locos which are _not_ "DCC-Ready".
("DCC-Ready" locos have a socket which makes "adding a decoder" a simple "plug the decoder in, and you're done" exercise...
...older "pre-DCC" locos require manual hard-wiring, which obviously requires a modicum of effort...)

...and again, the typical commercial "DCC Starter system" does _NOT_ require you to touch,
let alone use, "a computer"...

There's a number of resources available,
but I would strongly reccomend first doing the above "loco roster roundup" first. Once you know:
- what locos you have
- whether they are DCC-Ready or not (IE what is the "degree of difficulty" in converting each one to DCC)
- and how many locos you'll be typically running simultaneously

this will help set your requirements clearly-in-mind,
and make it easier to work-out what your needs actually are.
and therefore what DCC system option is most-appropriate for you at this time...

As far as reliable starting-info, I would reccomend starting with the following:

Alan Gartner's "WiringForDCC"
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm

OK, if it's not a rude question, where abouts are you located? 
You don't need to pin-point, country and state would be enough of a starting point.
There are Model Railroaders all over the planet, and there could well be fellow modeller(s) just around the corner from you...

As a round-up, pls confirm:
- scale and gauge in question
- locos in question (make, model, and if they have any "DCC-ready"/"DCC-equipped" labelling)
- size of layout
- available budget

and hopefully the collected-wisdom here onlist will be able to provide some useful info for you to proceed-with...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

No need to jump-- but I would

Please reread the Prof's post again... he is one of my treasured resources...  have rarely differed with his opinions and experience.  I emphatically agree with his approach.

I built much of my layout years ago... wired for DCC and used DC to start.  My experience offers the following advice:

If the layout is large, keep power blocks in mind... they will help isolate bad things happening in either setup. 

Turnouts are often the big worry...  Most currently offered are fully suitable out of the box.

If the Bus wiring is substantial enough for DCC, it's good enough for DC and  there is NO need to revisit it when converting from DC to DCC.    (remember,  feeders, feeders, feeders... hard to have too many.)  See the several threads on Good Wiring Practices.

If your DC setup works, there's a very good likelyhood conversion will be plug-and-play...  NO computer needed.

and nothing says you can't operate DC Tuesdays and DCC Fridays.

Process I Followed was :  Use DCC guidelines to wire the layout.  DC will run on it. 

All that said, I love the DCC features, and am slowly converting select locos from DC.  There are always a few that are just Not worth it... wrong style motor and electrical setup will often dictate.   Rather than spending inordinate time to convert, look for good discounts on new stuff... even if it's only DCC Ready.

Agreed! Wire for DCC, run DC until locomotives are converted

I have a 9' X 8' U-shaped N scale railroad and when I laid the track, I divided it into twelve power blocks, where each one could be connected to one of two traditional DC cabs/power packs. I did this because 90% of my locomotives are 20 to 30 years old and definitely not DCC ready. It will take me a while, both for funding and skill reasons, to install decoders in these older engines.

Since dual mode DCC decoders will run on DC railroads, this will give me time to slowly update the locomotive fleet and still operate the railroad.

The wire going to each of the power blocks is heavy enough to meet DCC requirements so no rewiring will be required. The power blocks will also come in handy when running in DCC mode so I can shut off blocks if necessary to track down short circuits.

Follow the Prof's advice. He's helped out a lot of folks on this forum.

I wired mine for DC cab

I wired mine for DC cab control, 2 cabs, the lay out was separated into 8 blocks.

I DID NOT use the conventional "common rail" method.  I insulated both rails, and ran a bus, with feeders to each block.  I used Atlas selector switches, from my previous lay out.

Come time for DCC, I simply removed the MRC 2500 power pack, and installed the Digitrax SEB.  All is good.  Maybe extra wiring involved the way I did it, but everything works fine, and I can still remove the Digitrax and plug the MRC back in, and I have DC.

Mike.

DCC

My opinion is DCC is the way to go but understand it can seem intimidating if your used to running a standard DC layout.

First, understand if you just want to use DCC to operate locomotives, that part is fairly simple.  You assign each locomotive a specific ID number and your off to the races.  "Consisting" locomotives requires some more steps but nothing major.  "If you get lost" pretty easy just to set things back to default and start over. 

I think sometimes the intimidation, especially for new DCC users, is many publications, websites, etc. give you the "gigantic" picture including the "tech" side of how DCC works.   Good stuff but if all you want to do is run your locomotives not necessary. 

That said, ultimately its about enjoying the layout.  So, if you want to go with DC, especially since many of your locomotives are DC.  "Go for it"  

Know to that converting a DC layout to DCC is usually not difficult if you decide to go with DCC later down the road. 

Joe  

to prof_klyzlr i do know

to prof_klyzlr

i do know there is scare tactics out there.  i do not care about the "i heard" i know someone" , but even on this web site people have problems.

as of today (3/13/2019) not even the bench work has been started (have bought a bunch of lumber). been waiting for the much needed rain to stop.

i am in the hills south east of sacramento ca. no clubs around that i know of. my working days/hrs are not "normal", i drive a big rig. local work, but long hrs, and work weekends.

i call that thingy in ones hand ( not that, the other thingy) the one that controls the train a computer, if it has a chip... it is a computer.  but years back i did buy a diga tracks controller. can not find it right now, but i did see it in the past month. (was digging through boxes), i have lots of train boxes.

it is just best to say that all of my locos were well broken in long before dcc came around. mostly athern some brass. been out of the hobby for at least 12  years.  too much work, little play.

long back i was in the walnut creek model railroad society. big layout, (s f east bay area) so i have plenty of power (no un powered units) and i can not even count all the rolling stock i have. lots of storage boxes full.

yes have thought about just trying to sell off all motive power to buy new dcc pre installed.

but i have been buying rolling stock back when i did not even have a dl to get around, had to ride my pedal bike 15 miles to a hobby shop, i am now 59, going on 17.

and i can not believe it, but i have old stock i bought, never broke the seals on them.

ho standard gauge,

room to fill is 20X12. floor heater vent one corner, (heater is under the floor, no forced air/heat), front wall is window, and end of room is window and ac. other end is open with pocket doors). front door has been blocked usable just i do not use it.

very old carpet need to look under to see whats there, hard wood? if just boards then will install "perco"

going shelf, two level helicoil at one end.  (first thing to be built). will cover the two long walls and one short wall, one end open NO duck unders for this old body.

min radis of 30 inch. code 83 peco. (need to keep the helicoil under frame work under 5 ft dia)

front room of my house, (no wife or rug rats).

i love long trains, best for me at the wcmrr was 250 weighted cars. but here maybe 10-15 at most.

i am going early 1900s up about 1950-60 but not a picky, will run most anything. short line/branch line, mostly 2-8-0's with timber, a couple mines, (mallets here)  through freight, (anything goes), lots of switching.

kinda a ramble here. i do that. but i am trying to answer questions that might be asked.

O and i am broke.

.

"well i will be putting down

    I suggest starting small with DCC. An NCE power cab or a Digitrax Zephyr is very simple to install and use, it just hooks to the rails like a regular power pack. .  As you learn more you can expand the layout and the DCC complexity. I also wouldn't worry about old engines, the new ready to run engines with DCC and sound installed are so much better that once you hear them you'll probably want to sell the old ones( think quality over quantity). ....DaveB

NMRA Sierra Region

I’d suggest you contact the local NMRA Division- there are plenty of model railroaders who are happy to help.  From your description, you live in the Sierra Division of NMRA Pacific Coast Region-  http://www.pcrnmra.org/sierra/   I know they have active members in Sacramento as well as the Stockton/Modesto area and I’m sure there are folks in the Gold Country.  Their PCR Convention is coming up the frist weekend in May in Sacramento.  

Lou in Idaho (formerly in Sacramento)

as to the nmra, they do not

as to the nmra, they do not update there web site very much. says nothing about may 2019.

pending day and my work load might burn a sick day. (i work weekends).

oops found the date listed had to go in a couple pages.

Some Answers, more Questions...

Dear PackNRat,

Hmmm, lots of good info to work with there, but some questions and flags too...
In some order of importance:

- Sacramento is a hotbed of trains and modeling. I'd take Lou's advice and reach out to the local NMRA team.
Even if your work schedule conflicts with the regular NMRA get-togethers, the fellow-modeller networking connections will be invaluable.

- Apologies for the confusion, but the term "computer" as you're using it doesn't mesh with common DCC terminology. If you already have some form of Digitraxx DCC system, then at least theoretically you should have enough to at-least "get started".

That said, Digitrax systems have a bit of reputation for not-being the most "at a glance" user friendly,
and this could well explain your want to "not use a computer" (where "computer" = Digitrax system).

- This leads into another point, the inevitable "budget limitations".
If you already own the Digitrax DCC system, then it costs you nothing (but time, and a bit of sweat)
to dig it out and get it hooked up...

Budget Win!

If, however, it was a bad experience with the Digitrax rig which prompted you to "swear off using a 'computer' to run your trains", then for the sake of your own enjoyment you may be better-off seeking a "more comfy" DCC rig option, and selling-on the Digitrax rig to finance the new system?...

... or, of course, you could just run analog, assuming you already have the analog throttles required...
(If not, consider carefully, as commercial walk around analog RTR throttles are getting awfully $$$ nowadays,
2x analog walkarounds could well exceed the street price of a decent user-friendly NCE PowerCab DCC rig).

- Ah, the scale is HO SG. That opens up a lot of options in both RTR and "convert to DCC yourself" worlds.

Older Athearn black "Jet" motor locos aren't really contenders for DCC conversion without some significant work.

Last-generation "Gold side semi-can Blue Box" locos can be converted to DCC reasonably easily,
assuming the mech and pickups are solid.
(Isolate the motor from the frame,
implement the "5-wire" system,
and isolate the couplers from the frame,
and it should be good to go   ).

Current-era "Horizon Hobbies" Athearns are typically "DCC Ready" and can be converted to DCC
(Motor and lights only) with a simple + cheap plug-in decoder.

If your desire to "go DCC" is more than just casual-investigation,
then you might be well-advised to do a serious inventory of the "Older, seal not broken" locos,
with a view to selling them off, and using the results to finance newer DCC-ready or DCC-equipped replacements. Even at the layout size you're considering, a few current-era smooth-running locos will typically give a lot more operational satisfaction than a footlocker or 2 full of "old, never ran-ers".

- Re both the "what DCC system could I be really comfy with?" and the "what locos are worth keeping/converting in a DCC world?" questions, I would at again encourage you to hook up with your local NMRA team. Literally the fastest way to find local modellers in your area. If you can post pics here onlist, I'm sure the collective wisdom will be also able to provide guidance as to which locos are worth considering as DCC converts.

I hope this helps...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

NMRA plus...

There's a fine railroad museum in Sacramento. Isn't there a model railroad there, which would be a way to find experienced modelers to help.

DrJolS

I live in southern Cal.

That said, I'm sure that there are model railroad hobby shops around the Sacramento area.  My local hobby shop has a guy that does dcc conversions on older locomotives.  Also if you have a local model railroad shop, you can usually find guys there who can help you out with advice, or may even be willing to come over an help you with hands on.  This would be in addition to getting in touch with some folks from the NMRA.  The NMRA is building a model railroad at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento.  I don't know if they have started actual construction, yet; but a day spent at that museum is a great way to spend a day anyway.

Sacramento Area Resources

Railroad Hobbies on Vernon Street in Roseville is the last model railroad only hobby store in the greater Sacramento area. The next closest I know of are are Just Trains in Concord and Western Depot in Yuba City.  You mentioned you couldn’t find anything on the PCR Convention in May- here’s a link to the website   http://pcrnmra.org/conv2019/

Russ is correct, the NMRA sponsored model train exhibit at the California State RR Museum is in the preliminary stages of construction planning and I don’t recall when it is scheduled to be completed.

Lou in Idaho

Railroad Hobbies on Vernon Street in Roseville

  I haven't been there in a long time but it was one of my favorite shops when I was modeling in HO scale. Does anyone know if the shop in Lodi is still in business ?  .....DaveB

Hobby store listing

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/hobbyshops

and, there's a thread where more have been listed:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/we-need-your-help-get-your-hobby-shop-listed-12211953

If a shop that you know of isn't listed, why not suggest to them that they submit a listing?  If you do it for them, make darn sure the info you give is correct!

Roger’s Railroad Junction- Lodi

@DaveB-  I forgot about Roger’s RR Junction on Sacramento Street, by the post office, in Lodi-  it’s still in business AFAIK.

Thanks for catching that.

Lou in Idaho

DCC

I bought the NCE Power Cab. I could upgrade with a booster. There are other starter sets.

I use computers but not for DCC. I see no need. I can run three sound locos.

I have modified locos. Some where DCC ready.

Just check locos for current draw at 12 vdc. Decoders are usually one amp limit.

I know how to solder and use a multimeter. All that is on the Internet anyway with You Tube videos for those who need hand holding. I must add, soldering is an acquired art, not a necessary evil. Practice on scrap material first.

The Internet is loaded with info about DCC. Organize your Bookmarks. I had to some years ago. Google has been my best friend.

You might consider Dead Rail. Eliminates a lot of wring issues but not sure how good batteries are yet.

Good luck.

Rich

Deadrail is for tinkerers

    "Deadrail in HO is for

of course if some innovative manufacturer would come out with a RTR line of battery on board engines that would change rapidly. I can see dead rail being the simplest choice for newbies at some point. To me dead rail models make a lot more sense than Teslas and should be a lot more affordable for  the hobbyist masses. :> )  ....DaveB

Scale and Size Matter

Hi Packnrat,

The smaller your scale and locomotives...the harder it will be to use DCC.  You will be forced to trade decoder space for weight, losing tractive effort. and reducing the maximum size of your trains.

I have chosen to stick with DC in my N scale layout because of the narrow body RS and GP locomotives I operate.

If you're in HO or larger scale, DCC causes no issues.

first i have to got some rail

first i have to got some rail down.

my days off of late have been wet, need to cut wood outside. 110AC and rain are a very bad mix. first to build will be the helix, then the main yard, round house fueling, sanding tower and such, and the towns (lower and upper) levels.

but no the dcc controller is not my computer problem,--add-- ( digging through some storage boxes, i found my dcc controller it is a digitrex zephyr xtra starter set 3.0 amp) i just have trouble with computers in general. yes i know most of the older (brass included) will not coexist with dcc, so i have bought some dcc ready, and factory installed.

guess time to learn how to sell on flea-bay. but i hear that if you can not sell much each month, or the winning bids are low, the fees are a killer. worst part is i am a collector, not a seller.

Hearsay

DC works great, even w/sound

I use DC with my sound equipped roster and they usually work  fine. We are very fortunate now to have so many options, but my limited computer skills aren't a good fit with DCC.